View Poll Results: Grade Valanciunas' Season

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    29 26.85%
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    60 55.56%
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    17 15.74%
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    2 1.85%
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Thread: Everything Valanciunas

  1. #3101
    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
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    Quote UnderdogRaptors wrote: View Post
    watch the game and you will see hes a complete stiff, but "Joakim noah is his floor" remember?
    Oh believe me, I watched today's game. and yes JV looks stiff, but I haven't seen any Adams MANHANDLING our Jonas.

  2. #3102
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Quote UnderdogRaptors wrote: View Post
    watch the game and you will see hes a complete stiff, but "Joakim noah is his floor" remember?
    You see we actually do watch the game, and I'm sure a large number of raptors fans not only watch the game (duh) but also pay close attention to what Jonas is doing on top of that as he's a young guy that is under the microscope as we watch him develop. I know when the raptors are on defense I'm not generally watching the ball, I'm watching what Jonas is doing off the ball, or what Ross is doing off the ball, then if the ball goes into the paint i'm watching how JV responds to that etc. Just because he is not blocking a ton of shots does not mean he can't be a good rim protector. Marc Gasol won DPOY despite not being a particularly great shot blocker. I liked what I saw tonight defensively from JV, and he was a presence and Amir did not carry him, they worked together.

  3. #3103
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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    Oh believe me, I watched today's game. and yes JV looks stiff, but I haven't seen any Adams MANHANDLING our Jonas.
    you calling me a liar?
    I been singing and rapping I make a killin' in both If i had to choose a Jackson man I'm feelin' like Bo ~ king drizzy

  4. #3104
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote UnderdogRaptors wrote: View Post
    hahahhaa typical to call someone a troll when you cant refute what they say, factsonly
    You can't refute what someone says when they're actually blind to facts and objective rationality. It's like trying to argue the facts of evolution with a creationist...they believe what they "know" are facts, when it's really just blind ignorance

  5. #3105
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    You can't refute what someone says when they're actually blind to facts and objective rationality. It's like trying to argue the facts of evolution with a creationist...they believe what they "know" are facts, when it's really just blind ignorance
    what did I say that was a lie? , educate me sir
    I been singing and rapping I make a killin' in both If i had to choose a Jackson man I'm feelin' like Bo ~ king drizzy

  6. #3106
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    Quote BigCamB wrote: View Post
    You see we actually do watch the game, and I'm sure a large number of raptors fans not only watch the game (duh) but also pay close attention to what Jonas is doing on top of that as he's a young guy that is under the microscope as we watch him develop. I know when the raptors are on defense I'm not generally watching the ball, I'm watching what Jonas is doing off the ball, or what Ross is doing off the ball, then if the ball goes into the paint i'm watching how JV responds to that etc. Just because he is not blocking a ton of shots does not mean he can't be a good rim protector. Marc Gasol won DPOY despite not being a particularly great shot blocker. I liked what I saw tonight defensively from JV, and he was a presence and Amir did not carry him, they worked together.
    please don't compare yonas to gasol,
    I been singing and rapping I make a killin' in both If i had to choose a Jackson man I'm feelin' like Bo ~ king drizzy

  7. #3107
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote UnderdogRaptors wrote: View Post
    what did I say that was a lie? , educate me sir
    I'll start and stop with the simplest. You kept referencing moving screens he committed in OT. Moving screens, plural. He committed one moving screen. A weak-ass call sold by Fisher and bought by the refs.

    Other people have already gone over how wrong you are about his rim protection and this so-called manhandling at the hands of Adams, so I'll leave it at that. Maybe learn to count before you start spouting random "facts".

  8. #3108
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Quote UnderdogRaptors wrote: View Post
    please don't compare yonas to gasol,
    Nice, you take one tiny segment from my post and completely take it way out of context. Way to go.

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  10. #3109
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I'll start and stop with the simplest. You kept referencing moving screens he committed in OT. Moving screens, plural. He committed one moving screen. A weak-ass call sold by Fisher and bought by the refs.

    Other people have already gone over how wrong you are about his rim protection and this so-called manhandling at the hands of Adams, so I'll leave it at that. Maybe learn to count before you start spouting random "facts".
    how am i wrong about his rim protection? he doesnt try to block the shots he just jumps with his hands straight up (doesnt try to block it or follow the ball), and he did have a moving screen so I was right on that at a crucial time (hes prone to stupid mistakes) you didnt even bring up the stupid travel even though ross gave it to him on the platter.
    I been singing and rapping I make a killin' in both If i had to choose a Jackson man I'm feelin' like Bo ~ king drizzy

  11. #3110
    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
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    Quote UnderdogRaptors wrote: View Post
    you calling me a liar?
    Yes. Facts are facts and Jonas wasn't manhandled by Adams. OKC's C was keeping his own. This is it. Show me video proof that Jonas was manhandled by Adams tonight and I will apologize.

    Everyone has their own opinion, but calling 21 years old center "project is over" is beyond ridiculous. Yes Jonas isn't in perfect shape, he's far from finished product and he has multiple problems with his game, but calling him project is over at this moment is beyond ridiculous.

    You sound like a very narcissist person and you think you're right, which is okay, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I'm just letting you know that I completely disagree with your "project is over" opinion.

    My recommendation to you is to read basics of rim protection. If you do, it will become very clear why JV isn't blocking shots.

    out
    Last edited by rocwell; Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 at 03:21 AM.

  12. #3111
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Quote UnderdogRaptors wrote: View Post
    how am i wrong about his rim protection? he doesnt try to block the shots he just jumps with his hands straight up (doesnt try to block it or follow the ball), and he did have a moving screen so I was right on that at a crucial time (hes prone to stupid mistakes) you didnt even bring up the stupid travel even though ross gave it to him on the platter.:rolleyes:
    1. Principle of verticality, the best way to protect the rim. Surely you realize he is being taught to do this?
    2. Every center sets screens like this and gets called. Moving screens are weird, sometimes they get called, usually they don't. It wasn't ideal but you're again clutching at straws and you could list a number of mistakes any raptors player made that proved costly
    3. he is stiff, his footwork is not so good, that is the only thing I will give you. But then it's just 1 mistake.
    Last edited by BigCamB; Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 at 03:26 AM.

  13. #3112
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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    Yes. Facts are facts and Jonas wasn't manhandled by Adams. OKC's C was keeping his own. This is it. Show me video proof that Jonas was manhandled by Adams tonight and I will apologize.

    Everyone has their own opinion, but calling 21 years old center "project is over" is beyond ridiculous. Yes Jonas isn't in perfect shape, he's far from finished product and he has multiple problems with his game, but calling him project is over at this moment is beyond ridiculous.

    You sound like a very narcissist person and you think you're right, which is okay, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I'm just letting you know that I completely disagree with your "project is over" opinion. Also, you should read more about rim protection basics. JV's biggest problem isn't in rim protection.
    How many times has a PG just had a highway to the lane with no intimadation or rim protection from our last line of defense (watch the Hawks game) Yonas is a weak shot blocker and when Amir isnt on his A game we are exposed in the interior (tonight was an exception because Amir was really active). I think we should give Yonas 7 years minimum because that bum bargnani really worked out... last years Yonas was better than this current one that is not a good sign, hate all you want but right now I would take either Plumblee over Yonas.
    Last edited by UnderdogRaptors; Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 at 03:26 AM.
    I been singing and rapping I make a killin' in both If i had to choose a Jackson man I'm feelin' like Bo ~ king drizzy

  14. #3113
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    Quote BigCamB wrote: View Post
    1. Principle of verticality, the best way to protect the rim. Surely you realize he is being taught to do this?
    2. Every center sets screens like this and gets called. Moving screens are weird, sometimes they get called, usually they don't. It wasn't ideal but you're again clutching at straws and you could list a number of mistakes any raptors player made that proved costly
    3. he is stiff, his footwork is not so good, that is the only thing I will give you. But then it's just 1 mistake.
    Thank you for agreeing with me that hes a stiff but the only player who gets away with the "rule of verticality" bs is Hibbert every other C gets called for a foul, Yonas problem is hes slow to react whenever a PG goes in for a layup hes a second late and even when he does jump at the right time he doesnt try to block it just puts his hands up (he barely gets off the floor so its an easy 2 for whoever shoots it) look at the Hawks game and what Teague did to us. It seems Yonas does the dumbest mistakes at the most crucial time, he was -5 tonight only worse player was Salmons.
    I been singing and rapping I make a killin' in both If i had to choose a Jackson man I'm feelin' like Bo ~ king drizzy

  15. #3114
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Why the hell do you keep bringing up the Hawks game? Jonas played 20 minutes in that game due to the back injury. Teague scored like 7 points whilst Jonas was in the game. When he picked up his 3rd foul midway through the 2nd and had to be benched, Teague, who had 3 points at the time, went on to score 12 points to close the period.
    Oh, and using your fabled, all-important +/- stat, Jonas was +12 in that game, the best raptor by far!!!

    You tell everyone to "watch the game", I suggest you take your own advice...
    Last edited by BigCamB; Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 at 05:20 AM.

  16. #3115
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Who is this Yonas fellow? He should learn some tips from JV on how to play.

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  18. #3116
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    Solid outing by JV

    Made some quick moves after showing some decent patience.

    Didn't hesitate on his jumper, at least not too badly.

    Good positioning defensively, kept the paint under control. After NO without him it's crazy the difference it makes when we depend on Amir and Hans for that job.

    I think his screen positioning is getting increasingly better.

    Missed some pretty easy shots, normally hits those. Bad shooting night or sore back?

    Really needs to work on grabbing deep post position in transition/early half court offence. It looks like there are tons of opportunities where if he could fight around his defender and set up under the net he'd be set. The wings look for it too

  19. #3117
    Raptors Republic Rookie Toilet Joe's Avatar
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    LEWENBERG: VALANCIUNAS' LOCKER ROOM CHEAT SHEET
    clicky


    TORONTO - Sitting in the home of assistant coach Bill Bayno one February evening, Jonas Valanciunas fretted over the slump that had befallen him.

    "I'm not scoring," the young centre griped, as he and his most devoted mentor watched film, hoping to get to the bottom of the recent on-court funk that was beginning to wear on his confidence.

    'JV, you're 21-years-old," Bayno responded. "There's no centres in the league your age that are even playing much less averaging 10 points a game. You've had great games [but] when you have a two-point game, going up against a really good, tough [centre], you can't get upset about it."

    His message, the team's message, has never wavered.

    "You've got to do the other things to help us win."

    With that in mind Bayno put pen to paper, drawing up a list of attainable goals for Valanciunas, a cheat sheet consisting of basic fundamentals that can now be found taped to the right side of his locker.

    Outwork, outrun, sprint
    [Set] great, legal screens
    Step to [your] man
    Block out

    And it goes on like that.

    "He got really down on himself when he went through that tough stretch," Bayno explained. "So we just really sat down and talked and [I] said, 'look, it's no secret, JV, these are the things you've got to do'."

    "You're going to have some ups and downs," he told the second-year pro, "but I'm going to write it in your locker, so every day before the game you see, this is what you have to do on a nightly basis."

    "Everything that's on that sheet is what we work on."

    It's a simplistic tool but one that the Raptors' first-year assistant feels strongly about, one that has yielded proven results throughout his coaching career.

    Admired for his innovative player development techniques and his passion for molding young talent, Bayno first adopted this method of teaching on one of his regular trips to Africa, about a decade ago. There he met Michael Scholl. The two would become good friends and Bayno eventually hired Scholl as his assistant at Loyola Marymount University in 2008.

    Scholl - who spent eight years in Africa running an AIDS prevention campaign and implementing youth basketball leagues - introduced Bayno to an old Harvard study, something he used himself to motivate the children he taught there. The study correlated the success of students with writing down their goals and displaying them in their dorms. Bayno, like Scholl before him, applied that principle to basketball.

    "Having those goals, having them written out where they see them every day I think is huge and it's been proven," said Bayno, who is also planning on employing that strategy with the Raptors' other sophomore, Terrence Ross.

    "The vets don't need it. The vets will laugh at you if you try to do it. They really don't need it anyway. I could say to Chuck (Hayes), 'remember five games ago, you had that kick out situation, you missed a kick out'. He'll say, 'yep', and he'll know exactly the play. But the young kids need it."

    Bayno has spent more one-on-one time with Valanciunas than anyone on the staff this season. Whether he's sparring with JV in the post - wearing his trademark forearm pads to simulate in-game physicality - throwing out-of-reach passes to him in practice or hosting him at his house for an extra film session, Bayno's fingerprints are all over the sophomore's continued development.

    "He works with me a lot actually," Valanciunas said of Bayno. "He's helped me a lot, especially on the post-up moves. Now I feel much more comfortable going against those guys, like big centres. What we're working on every day is helping."

    Bayno, like head coach Dwane Casey and the rest of the Raptors' staff, has worked to manage Valanciunas' own expectations and lesson the external pressure that he faces as an emerging star in the league. They're not overly concerned with his scoring totals or the number of touches he gets in the post. He shouldn't be either.

    They know his value, at least this season, can't be measured using a box score. Instead they hope to lay down a foundation for the future. His role is to do the things he can control, to master the basic fundamentals of the game that will ensure his longevity in the league. The "little things" as Bayno calls them.

    "We're a good team because he's accepted his role and he's done all the little things," said Bayno, formally an assistant in Portland and with the Timberwolves. "I really believe he's going to be a good scorer in this league."

    "I'm not expecting a lot of point production every night out of him," echoed Casey. "If he gives it to us, it's great but I don't want to put that kind of pressure on him. He's growing, he's a second-year guy. I'm not going to expect him to get 23 points, 24 points every night. If he does, it's gravy. If he runs the floor, rebounds, plays defence, for this team, this year, that's great. I promise you, his offence is going to come. We all want it to hurry up and get here yesterday but I'm more concerned about him picking up the speed of the game, the rebounding, defending the low post, defending his position and reacting in the half-court game. His career is going to be long enough. He's going to be a scorer in this league two or three years from now."

    A month ago at this time Valanciunas was pressing. The touches were not there every night, his scoring numbers dipped, as did his playing time. More often than not Casey would opt for a smaller, more experienced lineup late in games. Valanciunas was frustrated.

    Then the card went up in his locker. He sees it nearly each day, before and after every home game. Currently, he's playing some of the best basketball of his young career. Whether his improved play is related or a happy coincidence, he has been carrying out the very tasks Casey and company have been emphasizing.

    In Sunday's win over Atlanta, Valanciunas recorded his team-leading 19th double-double of the season after totaling eight as a rookie a year ago. He played 33 minutes, attempting just four shots while matching a career-high with nine made free throws. His impact on the game was understated, yet significant.

    His point production has gone up but, as Casey points out, he's not necessarily seeing more touches. Instead he's working for them. He's running the floor, he's rebounding, he's getting to the line and as a result he's playing more and closing out games. He understands how his bread is buttered, at least for the time being.

    "I'm not a scoring machine," Valanciunas acknowledged. "I'm a worker. My job is to get a rebound, to set a screen to make DeMar (DeRozan) open, or Kyle (Lowry) open, or [Ross] open, whoever is playing on the perimeter. My job is to box out [and] go for offensive rebounds. That's my job."

    In less than four weeks, Valanciunas will make his first playoff appearance. Although he's peaking at the right time of season, the internal expectations haven't changed. Outwork your man, set hard screens, box out, run the floor, do the little things. He's heard them every day since arriving in training camp five months ago. He's practiced them. Only now, handwritten in bright, unmistakable lettering, they stare him in the face.

  20. #3118
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Toilet Joe wrote: View Post
    LEWENBERG: VALANCIUNAS' LOCKER ROOM CHEAT SHEET
    clicky
    I like that article a lot. Some important bits that relate to a lot of conversations people have had on here:

    Bayno, like head coach Dwane Casey and the rest of the Raptors' staff, has worked to manage Valanciunas' own expectations and lesson the external pressure that he faces as an emerging star in the league. They're not overly concerned with his scoring totals or the number of touches he gets in the post. He shouldn't be either.

    They know his value, at least this season, can't be measured using a box score. Instead they hope to lay down a foundation for the future. His role is to do the things he can control, to master the basic fundamentals of the game that will ensure his longevity in the league. The "little things" as Bayno calls them.
    I'm more concerned about him picking up the speed of the game, the rebounding, defending the low post, defending his position and reacting in the half-court game. His career is going to be long enough. He's going to be a scorer in this league two or three years from now. - Casey

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  22. #3119
    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
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    Great article here!

  23. #3120
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I enjoyed that...I can totally envision a scenario when its time to extend him of him averaging 16pts 12 boards 2 blocks a night. I can't wait to see what kind of shape he starts next year in...given his transformation over the summer

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