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  • Man, you guys are making my head spin. There really should be no debate or question about JV's offense. It is developing nicely, already bordering on elite, and will only get better with more reps.

    The only reason JV isn't on the floor in crunch time is because he is often the last line of defense and Casey can't risk any mistakes. Demar blows his defensive coverages all the time, but he's got Amir, 2Pat, JJ or even Hayes to back him up - sometimes. When JV blows a defensive assignment, it's more likely to result in a basket.

    Casey is playing the percentages and is willing to sacrifice less offense for more defense (which often doesn't work when he plugs in Hayes, btw). It's the same rationale as to why JV gets pulled early in the first quarter when he plays a Gasol brother. lol.

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    • golden wrote: View Post
      Man, you guys are making my head spin. There really should be no debate or question about JV's offense. It is developing nicely, already bordering on elite, and will only get better with more reps.

      The only reason JV isn't on the floor in crunch time is because he is often the last line of defense and Casey can't risk any mistakes. Demar blows his defensive coverages all the time, but he's got Amir, 2Pat, JJ or even Hayes to back him up - sometimes. When JV blows a defensive assignment, it's more likely to result in a basket.

      Casey is playing the percentages and is willing to sacrifice less offense for more defense (which often doesn't work when he plugs in Hayes, btw). It's the same rationale as to why JV gets pulled early in the first quarter when he plays a Gasol brother. lol.
      Tell Casey that at the end of regulation against the Lakers, JV played perfectly fundamental help defense and blocked a superstar without fouling after the perimeter player let him blow by.

      Sacrificing D my ....

      Comment


      • special1 wrote: View Post
        Nice attempt to take back what you wrote....

        A) The same logic cannot apply because JV doesn't shoot enough! Pump faking doesn't count. JV shoots 7.4 FGA per game vs. Demar who shoots 16.2 FGA per game. Clearly this will affect the rate, but how does the free throw rate affect the actual game if you don't actually shoot the free throws?? Unlike you, I prefer to look at a players ACTUAL output....not what he would do in a hypothetical situation.

        You said that JV was elite at drawing fouls. I think this is misleading at the very least. Where is the evidence that he's elite? Demar shoots FAR more free throws than JV. Demar is 4th in the ENTIRE league at 124 attempts so far. JV is tied for 44th at 67 attempts. Yet, you see no evidence that Demar is Elite?? BS

        B) You said JV is elite at drawing fouls......is that written in stone? If so, where?

        FYI - JV is currently 50th in FTA per game.....Demar is currently 6th.

        http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...hrowsAttempted

        If you think you can actually draw any similarities between the two when it comes to drawing fouls.....you really need to go back to watching the games.
        A) JV hasn't gotten the opportunity to shoot enough. My argument is that he should be given said opportunity to see if his rate holds up. If it does, very high reward. If not, at least we know.

        B) I said JV's free throw rate was elite. It is. Indisputably. DeMar's is very good as well. DeMar's value comes from being able to shoulder a heavy load without his efficiency (notably already poor) dropping. Why not see whether JV can have a similar sustenance of his efficiency (world-class) with increased usage, considering the major tool that allows DD to do so (his ability to draw fouls) appears to be present in JV as well.

        Oh, and that little pot shot about watching the games was entirely unnecessary.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
          Tell Casey that at the end of regulation against the Lakers, JV played perfectly fundamental help defense and blocked a superstar without fouling after the perimeter player let him blow by.

          Sacrificing D my ....
          I was very glad to see that as well. He's improved a lot even since the end of last year, and hopefully this shows Casey that he can put him out there to finish games.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

          Comment


          • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
            Tell Casey that at the end of regulation against the Lakers, JV played perfectly fundamental help defense and blocked a superstar without fouling after the perimeter player let him blow by.

            Sacrificing D my ....
            Don't shoot the messenger. lol. I want to see JV out there too.

            But a lot of the onus is on Lowry, too. Casey allows Kyle to freelance quite a bit, so it's obvious he hasn't built a trust and on-court chemistry with JV yet - and nowhere near what he has with DD. And as great as Lowry is at doing KLOE type things, he is average-to-below-average at feeding the post and hitting the roller on PnRs.

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            • golden wrote: View Post
              Don't shoot the messenger. lol. I want to see JV out there too.

              But a lot of the onus is on Lowry, too. Casey allows Kyle to freelance quite a bit, so it's obvious he hasn't built a trust and on-court chemistry with JV yet - and nowhere near what he has with DD. And as great as Lowry is at doing KLOE type things, he is average-to-below-average at feeding the post and hitting the roller on PnRs.
              I don't know how much is on Lowry and how much is on Casey. I am ileaning towards Casey because we have seen him put players (Bargs, Gay, DD, Lowry) in a position where we see them jack up 25+ shots regardless if they are falling. (aside)

              ***********************

              Lowry doesn't have to be THE GUY that has to feed the post. It is a team effort feeding the post. It also doesn't have to be on the low block. There is one GREAT area on the basketball court where the Raptors can operate JV, the FT line (and honestly they should be operating him there). In this position he has the face up jumper, which he can hit, he also can't be doubled because the passing lanes are wide open from that spot to either side of the floor. It sucks in the perimeter guys just a bit and pulls up the opposing big. It is also easy to feed the high post. It gets him touches in a non-iso, flowing type position where he can get comfortable and not feel like he needs to shoot. It is less predictable because there are more options than 3 dribbles a'twerkin, 2 players a'doublin and one TURNOVEEER! (....yupp)

              Now, JV will never have Gasol-like vision, but he isn't a bad passer and if he is comfortable with having the ball there it opens up a ton of play options for DD to catch and curl, pop, or dump back to JV on the roll as he sets a bump screen on the pass off. Also, if he got comfortable from the FT line, the mini pick and pop sequence in the middle of the court becomes an efficient option out of horns. It will also hurt opposing rim protection because they will be bringing the big out if they consistently run this option (and when JV makes a few jumpers, they will). Also as we saw against Utah, when teams run the PnR so close to the basket, recovering to the rolling big is nearly impossible, even with Amir like ninja skills, and it can result in easy buckets.

              This is the type of situation where JV needs to get his touches, and where he will learn to play the game properly. With a mix of post up situations.

              If you notice from Lithuania, they used him on the low block (shifted up towards the FT line though), but the also used him in the high post and he showed he can be wickedly efficient. For example, in the below game against Turkey (with Asik guarding him), he operated at a mix of low block and high post options. He took the jumper and it led to drives later in the game.



              And in this video (first 15 seconds), there is a great read by Val after catching it in the high post to a cutting big (example of passing)



              ************************

              Aside: As much as we rip on Bargs and Gay, I doubt they are that greedy, self centered players to have that high a brick-laying usage while they were here. Andrea's USG dropped 5% moving to NY (we won't talk about Bargs efficiency, at any point in his career), and over 4%USG drop for Gay to Sacramento with a PER that jumped a massive 6. With DD out, I honestly think Casey is telling Lowry to handle the load and take the shots. Since he is an NBA head coach and should have some serious basketball knowledge...let's just say the expectations for a more creative solution are a lot higher than that

              Comment


              • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                I don't know how much is on Lowry and how much is on Casey. I am ileaning towards Casey because we have seen him put players (Bargs, Gay, DD, Lowry) in a position where we see them jack up 25+ shots regardless if they are falling. (aside)

                ***********************

                Lowry doesn't have to be THE GUY that has to feed the post. It is a team effort feeding the post. It also doesn't have to be on the low block. There is one GREAT area on the basketball court where the Raptors can operate JV, the FT line (and honestly they should be operating him there). In this position he has the face up jumper, which he can hit, he also can't be doubled because the passing lanes are wide open from that spot to either side of the floor. It sucks in the perimeter guys just a bit and pulls up the opposing big. It is also easy to feed the high post. It gets him touches in a non-iso, flowing type position where he can get comfortable and not feel like he needs to shoot. It is less predictable because there are more options than 3 dribbles a'twerkin, 2 players a'doublin and one TURNOVEEER! (....yupp)

                Now, JV will never have Gasol-like vision, but he isn't a bad passer and if he is comfortable with having the ball there it opens up a ton of play options for DD to catch and curl, pop, or dump back to JV on the roll as he sets a bump screen on the pass off. Also, if he got comfortable from the FT line, the mini pick and pop sequence in the middle of the court becomes an efficient option out of horns. It will also hurt opposing rim protection because they will be bringing the big out if they consistently run this option (and when JV makes a few jumpers, they will). Also as we saw against Utah, when teams run the PnR so close to the basket, recovering to the rolling big is nearly impossible, even with Amir like ninja skills, and it can result in easy buckets.

                This is the type of situation where JV needs to get his touches, and where he will learn to play the game properly. With a mix of post up situations.

                If you notice from Lithuania, they used him on the low block (shifted up towards the FT line though), but the also used him in the high post and he showed he can be wickedly efficient. For example, in the below game against Turkey (with Asik guarding him), he operated at a mix of low block and high post options. He took the jumper and it led to drives later in the game.
                I was kind of thinking about this to. If you watch any of the Golden State Warriors, they often run through Bogut by the free-throw line, and they have a lot of success with it, in terms of getting open shots and opening up driving lanes. JV is a better offensive player than Bogut (aside from maybe Bogut's vision), as Jv is a much greater threat on that mid-range, as you noted. But ya, good for all the reasons you pointed out, as long as JV can make good decisions in this situation. It may take time for him to find all the cutters and open guys, but I'd say this is probably the best time to try it.

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                • golden wrote: View Post
                  The only reason JV isn't on the floor in crunch time is because he is often the last line of defense and Casey can't risk any mistakes. Demar blows his defensive coverages all the time, but he's got Amir, 2Pat, JJ or even Hayes to back him up - sometimes. When JV blows a defensive assignment, it's more likely to result in a basket.
                  .
                  2Pat isn't really any better at rotations than JV. He's better in the pick and roll but isn't as good at the rim. It's a trade off.

                  Hayes is solid but offers no rim protection.

                  JJ is undersized and would only work depending on matchup.

                  No real excuse to blame JV's Defence and since he is the best rim protector we have, it makes sense to have him in there.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • JV isn't "elite"

                    dude has no real outside threat beyond 5 feet to speak of, and that pretty important.

                    His up fake from 15-17 feet is embarrassing, both hands under the ball..... jesus its painful to look at.

                    I'm sure it can get better, but right now, average is a good label for JV.

                    Comment


                    • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                      JV isn't "elite"

                      dude has no real outside threat beyond 5 feet to speak of, and that pretty important....
                      My recollection of his rookie year was that he was comfortable hitting the basket from 10-12 feet out, and did several times. then its as iff he was told "That's not your job young fella" and his shots from outside stopped.

                      Certainly we have seen him shooting from the outside for Lithuania.

                      Comment


                      • well his form looks horriffic now, and he simply isnt a threat to hit an open J. Looking at guys like Nene and gasol, dirk....bigs who can hit those with ease, and not just the result, but the free flowing form of properly executed jump or set shots makes me cry when i think about what our guy brings. The worst part, he is a decent FT shooter..... there is little to explain his ineptness.

                        If its coaching telling him not to ever shoot...... thats bad IMO

                        Comment


                        • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                          well his form looks horriffic now, and he simply isnt a threat to hit an open J. Looking at guys like Nene and gasol, dirk....bigs who can hit those with ease, and not just the result, but the free flowing form of properly executed jump or set shots makes me cry when i think about what our guy brings. The worst part, he is a decent FT shooter..... there is little to explain his ineptness.

                          If its coaching telling him not to ever shoot...... thats bad IMO

                          You know who else had awful form but worked for him? Reggie Miller.


                          Is it the worst part he hits FTs? I thought that was a good thing.

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                          • Puffer wrote: View Post
                            My recollection of his rookie year was that he was comfortable hitting the basket from 10-12 feet out, and did several times. then its as iff he was told "That's not your job young fella" and his shots from outside stopped.

                            Certainly we have seen him shooting from the outside for Lithuania.
                            I have same memories and stats seem to confirm.

                            As rook: 16ft+ was 10.7% of his shots and he hit 39.5%
                            As 2nd yr: 16+ was 8.6% and hit 32.8%
                            So far in year 3: 16+ft 5.9% and hit 28.6%

                            Similar results for 10-16ft but in year two he had a slight bump of 2% of total shots however down significantly in year 3.


                            I feel as if Casey coaches from a "my way is the right way" perspective. In some instances, I have no issue with that especially when it comes to basic fundamentals or team principles. However I find he tries to pigeon hole players. For example, the handling of Lowry initially was taking away his strengths to play to what Casey desired. Eventually we've seen some give and take. When it comes to JV, I feel what he wants is a Tyson Chandler clone. Unfortunately, that isn't playing to JVs strengths nor is it making him the most effective.

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                            • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                              You know who else had awful form but worked for him? Reggie Miller.


                              Is it the worst part he hits FTs? I thought that was a good thing.
                              He means that as JV is a solid FT shooter, there is little excuse as to why he cannot consistently make mid range Js.

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                              • Jangles wrote: View Post
                                He means that as JV is a solid FT shooter, there is little excuse as to why he cannot consistently make mid range Js.
                                Hr doesn't pump fake his free throws

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