View Poll Results: Grade Valanciunas' Season

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  • A

    29 26.61%
  • B

    61 55.96%
  • C

    17 15.60%
  • D

    0 0%
  • F

    2 1.83%
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Thread: Everything Valanciunas

  1. #421
    Raptors Republic Starter omgsomuchpotential's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    BTW Most people here are completely ignoring the fact he's only 19 (younger than Jonas).
    Your posts seem to be very pro-Bismack/anti-Jonas and not really looking at this objectively. Jonas is just 3 months older than Bismack, they practically of identical age.

    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    If Jonas can become a 10/10 guy, I guess I will be happy. I just don't think he'll ever be as good as Bismack defensively because he just doesn't have the athleticism.
    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    IMO he has more upside than Jonas as well.
    Considering all of these are just speculations, you're very convinced on Bismack's advantage although they didn't even have a chance to meet on the court face-to-face yet.

  2. #422
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Does anyone remember the pre-draft workout video released of Biyombo? He'd miss jump hook after jump hook. It was a great instructional video on how to strip paint off rims. Biyombo's got as much offensive skill as Reggie Evans. He just scores a few more baskets because he can dunk.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  3. #423
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    People that were more informed and intelligent than us were also saying Bismack was one of the rarest athletes to come along in many many years. The reason he fell was because he was considered "raw". He still is but he's progressing really well, he just needs to work on his offense.

    BTW Most people here are completely ignoring the fact he's only 19 (younger than Jonas).IMO he has more upside than Jonas as well.

    If Jonas can become a 10/10 guy, I guess I will be happy. I just don't think he'll ever be as good as Bismack defensively because he just doesn't have the athleticism.
    Athletes don't necessarily make great basketball players. Check the D-League for numerous examples. Athleticism is great but you can be great on defense without it. Tim Duncan is still one of the best post defenders despite his athleticism deteriorating. Athleticism is great for highlight reel blocks but playing the angles and positioning is much more important, in my opinion.

    I think it should be mentioned that JV is still just 19. He'll be 20 in May. Biyombo will be 20 in August.

    I appreciate your opinion but the high opinion of JV around here is certainly warranted based on his play, accolades, and press.

  4. #424
    Raptors Republic Starter omgsomuchpotential's Avatar
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    Lietuvos Rytas 65:72 Spartak

    Pretty terrible game today for Rytas, they have managed to lose second half by 21 and waste all the advantage made in first half. Coach Dzikic also made some stupid decisions as I watched the game. I know he's a mate of Casey's, but I'd really like them to get a new coach.

    The game wasn't an exception for Valančiūnas, not one of his finest moments, missed a couple freethrows, got flopped by the Russians a bit.

    27:58 minutes
    6 pts
    5 reb
    1 block
    1 steal
    2 turnovers
    3 fouls
    3/6 fg
    0/2 ft

  5. #425
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Does anyone remember the pre-draft workout video released of Biyombo? He'd miss jump hook after jump hook. It was a great instructional video on how to strip paint off rims. Biyombo's got as much offensive skill as Reggie Evans. He just scores a few more baskets because he can dunk.
    We'll see with Biyombo. Guys like him scare me because, while they are athletic, they don't have any semblance of an all court game. You can coach up guys a bit but there has to be some level of talent and know-how there. Yeah, he might morph into a Tyson Chandler but he could as easily be Sam Dalembert or worse.

    I know that a lot of JV talk is prospect pron but he's putting up numbers in Europe that say he's more than a middling centre prospect. We'll have to see when he gets here but, for me at least, there is no question he's got a much higher ceiling than Biyombo simply because he can actually shoot, pass and play on the offensive end of the floor. Biyombo really hasn't shown anything suggesting he can do that. Yet, at least.

  6. #426
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Biyombo is a larger stronger Pops Mensah Bonsou

  7. #427
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Does anyone remember the pre-draft workout video released of Biyombo? He'd miss jump hook after jump hook. It was a great instructional video on how to strip paint off rims. Biyombo's got as much offensive skill as Reggie Evans. He just scores a few more baskets because he can dunk.
    If you watch him this year you'd know he is FAR better than Reggie on O. He's only been getting better, he can hit layup and he has this sick turn around jumper he pulls out from time to time. He hit it once on Dwight and got fouled another time. He will only get better with exp. He was clearly off during that workout.

    http://youtu.be/He6F3qJ8EFM?t=1m30s

    If I had to put my money on who's going to be better in 3-4 years it'd be Bismack.
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Tue Mar 13th, 2012 at 03:21 PM.

  8. #428
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    If you watch him this year you'd know he is FAR better than Reggie on O. He's only been getting better, he can hit layup and he has this sick turn around jumper he pulls out from time to time. He hit it once on Dwight and got fouled another time. He will only get better with exp. He was clearly off during that workout.

    http://youtu.be/He6F3qJ8EFM?t=1m30s

    If I had to put my money on who's going to be better in 3-4 years it'd be Bismack.
    With all due respect, this video was of Biyombo's best game of the season. He's had a couple of stinkers since then.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  9. #429
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Another Valanciunas high praise article

    Rubio showed that a delayed arrival from Draft (2009) until NBA debut (2011) can deliver a huge payoff. The Raptors have asked for the same patience with Jonas Valanciunas as fans suffer through 13-28 in the post-Chris Bosh construction efforts.

    Valanciunas is somewhere in the distance. Rubio is proof that this can work out.

    Valanciunas was an investment pick at No. 5, saddled with a straightjacket of a contract in his native Lithuania that had no buyout provision. Only after the Draft -- after the Cavaliers used the first selection on Kyrie Irving, the Timberwolves took Derrick Williams, the Jazz chose Enes Kanter and the Cavs came back with Tristan Thompson -- was agreement reached on a new deal that included a $2.4 million buyout.

    Every indication is that he will be a Raptor coached by Dwane Casey next season, after a 2011-12 season during which he is improving his strength and shooting with Lietuvos Rytas. His team is coached by Aleksandar Dzikic, by coincidence a former Casey assistant with the Timberwolves. And Valanciunas figures to have a successful career -- "a future franchise center," one non-Toronto executive predicted before the Draft.

    "I have no doubt that is the right pick or was the right pick for us," said Bryan Colangelo, the president and general manager. "But it certainly wasn't one that would gather instant gratification. There were other players on the board ... that our fans and perhaps the media wanted us to take because they might come in and be an immediate-impact pick, if you will. But we made a long-term decision. We drafted a 19-year-old center prospect and despite the pressure of picking a so-called sexy pick or someone that might be a more-popular pick, we made the pick that we felt was the best decision, long term and short term, for the franchise because it fit right into this building process that we're going through right now."

    It's the pick the Cavaliers should have made at No. 4, instead of power forward Tristan Thompson. They would have had, as it turned out, Irving streaking to Rookie of the Year in 2011-12 and an additional substantial pay out later in Valanciunas.

    Instead, the Raptors gladly stepped into the Valanciunas predicament, willing to trade what at the time most teams expected would be a one-season holding pattern for eight or 10 seasons of standout center play. Colangelo just doesn't like the Rubio analogy.

    But it's true. Even in an abbreviated rookie season, Rubio showed that patience can be worth it.

    "I don't like to make comparisons like that," Colangelo said. "Clearly the situation is one that you've drafted a young player, he's playing professional basketball somewhere else, it's not at the NBA level but he is continuing the process of growing and maturing as an individual and as a basketball player.

    "He's playing minutes. I think all of that was favorable in Ricky's situation. Ricky probably got to the point where it was counter-productive because that last year in Spain he was really, if anything, going the opposite direction. It's almost like there was a disinterest, if you will, or he had a lot less impact. I'm sure that extra time in Europe was beneficial for him, but in his case, maybe it lasted just one season too long."

    That, the Raptors hope, will not be the case for the improving Valanciunas. When he finally makes it to the NBA, he'll be ready. And Toronto will be ready for him.
    Source: NBA.com

  10. #430
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote apollo wrote: View Post
    goosebumps!!!

  11. #431
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    If you watch him this year you'd know he is FAR better than Reggie on O. He's only been getting better, he can hit layup and he has this sick turn around jumper he pulls out from time to time. He hit it once on Dwight and got fouled another time. He will only get better with exp. He was clearly off during that workout.

    http://youtu.be/He6F3qJ8EFM?t=1m30s

    If I had to put my money on who's going to be better in 3-4 years it'd be Bismack.
    Go watch the bobcats and their crap rebuilding plan. I really have no interest in hearing about biyombo and I think the same goes for many others here. This is a JV thread so let's talk about JV

  12. #432
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    As Matt said many much more intelligent and informed people have said that JV is a FRANCHISE CENTER. I haven't heard anything close to that about biyombo. Biyombo is a more athletic Reggie Evans with longer arms

  13. #433
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Big v numba 17!

  14. #434
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    That $2.4M buyout is obscene. The Raps can only contribute $500K. JV is paying $1.9M to come to Toronto next year.

  15. #435
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That $2.4M buyout is obscene. The Raps can only contribute $500K. JV is paying $1.9M to come to Toronto next year.
    My guess is that Larry Tannenbaum introduces Mr Valanciunas to a prominent investment bank that perhaps Mr Tannenbaum uses, which bank will happily front Mr Valanciunas an indefinite interest free $1.9mm loan which bank will also be selected by Mr Valanciunas to manage his significant financial portfolio going forward. Something like that....

  16. #436
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That $2.4M buyout is obscene. The Raps can only contribute $500K. JV is paying $1.9M to come to Toronto next year.
    I don't think there is something especially obscene about it. I'll explain it from a football perspective (soccer that is) in Europe because I know more about the salaries and transfer system, but I assume basketball in Europe is pretty much the same or at least somewhat similar.

    If a club wants a player under contract with another club they need to negotiate a transfer fee; there isn't a trade system comparable to the nba system (even though sometimes a trade is part of the deal). In general the player also has to agree to the trade. You could see the transfer fee as a buy-out, but paid for by the club. (For fun: In 2009 Ronaldo changed clubs for aobut 100 million dollars; the asking price for Messi is set at about 330 million dollar (meaning they don't want to sell him...)).

    It's a lot because the Raptors can only pay for 500k of it; but that's a choice of the nba, not the Lithuanian club.

    In football, in Europe, a club who develops a player gets a percentage of every transfer of this player later on. This is to stop the big clubs from parasitizing (?) on the smaller clubs by letting them pay for the development from youth player to senior player and picking up all the talent without rewardings for the club which has paid for the development of this player. In Europe, unlike nba teams, (almost) all the teams, in basketbal and football, have youth training programs. These programs of course cost (a lot of) money. If all players would just leave after completing their training, a lot of those clubs would not be able to sustain these training programs. They need to profit either from the talent by having (some of) these self-trained players play in their senior team or they need to get compensation for the investments they made.

    Also: this isn't anywhere near as obscene as e.g. being able to franchise tag a player meaning he can never leave on his own accord for another nba club. 2.4 million won't do the trick with that kind of rules instituted.
    Last edited by Soft Euro; Tue Mar 13th, 2012 at 06:20 PM.

  17. #437
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That $2.4M buyout is obscene. The Raps can only contribute $500K. JV is paying $1.9M to come to Toronto next year.
    He looks like a simple guy, he'll get about $ 3.4M. first year so, $1.5M for him may be enoug. I'm sure his salary in Lithuania is less than a quarter of what he'll get here at the start ($1.5M).
    Last edited by japetas; Tue Mar 13th, 2012 at 06:22 PM.
    (Sorry for poor English )

  18. #438
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote japetas wrote: View Post
    He looks like a simple guy, he'll get about $ 3.4M. first year so, $1.5M for him may be enoug. I'm sure his salary in Lithuania is less than a quarter of what he'll get here at the start ($1.5M).
    The buget of Lietuvos Rytas is somewhere up of 10 million I believe; I think he renegotiated his contract last year, so he might not be a lot under 1,5 now; but I'm not too sure about this as a lot of clubs don't make their salaries public (as far as I know). Probably our Lithuanian posters know more about this.

  19. #439
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    My guess is that Larry Tannenbaum introduces Mr Valanciunas to a prominent investment bank that perhaps Mr Tannenbaum uses, which bank will happily front Mr Valanciunas an indefinite interest free $1.9mm loan which bank will also be selected by Mr Valanciunas to manage his significant financial portfolio going forward. Something like that....
    +1

  20. #440
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Amortization of that sum over say a ten yr. period is about 200k/. No big deal for someone who should be a high end player/earner going forward. Besides the financial consultant anecdote mentioned above I am sure his agent/s can put their heads together and work out some form of creative payback scheme for who will be a lucrative client. And lets not forget endorsements. All in all we need not feel too badly for JV.

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