Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 69

Thread: BC has 2 years - what would you do if you were him?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    17,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default BC has 2 years - what would you do if you were him?

    *Warning: large generalization as a lead in approaching*

    Fans tend to 'poop' on those in charge - whether the Raptors, Leafs, Bulls, Bills, Bucks, etc. It is what fans do. We want to cheer a winner and if our team is not a winner, then the people in charge are incompetent.

    Given that BC and Dwayne Casey have 2 years and a third as a team option, what would you do with the time?

    Instead of sitting back and complaining about how bad management is, give your own ideas or suggestions to make the Raptors relevant sooner rather than later and for many years to follow.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    17,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    What would I do?

    In a series of 1, 2, or 3 trades (see trade forum for exact how's) I would trade Calderon, Barbosa, and Bargnani for role players, expiring contracts, and draft picks.

    The 'tank' would most certainly be on in terms of record (although we are coming off 22 wins) but in terms of development it would be very far from a 'tank'. DD, ED, Amir, Alabi, Bayless, and JJ would all be given serious minutes. At the end of the season we'd have a very good indication of who is meant to be a Raptor for the long term and who is moving on.

    The Raptors would head in to a very deep draft with 3 first round draft picks (their own would be extremely high). There is a possibility a future all-star/franchise player will be drafted and the other two picks might yield another OR it could they could be combined to move in to the top 10.

    The Raptors would also have a lot of salary cap space to attack a deep free agent class in 2012 to either get an established all-star or round out the roster with solid veterans.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,526
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    your idea sounds good, good way of getting rid of bargnani and calderon for some draft picks and role players.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    341
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    You think we can't get a top 10 first round pick for Bargnani?

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I mostly agree with your strategy. The only difference is I'd keep Calderon for two reasons. A good veteran presence and someone who will help the young players develop offensively, by getting them the ball. The main reason, though, is that I feel he's worth more to the team than you'd get for him in a trade. Because of his contract and injury history, I'm not sure you wouldn't have to take back another bad contract in return, and quite frankly, I'd rather just keep him.

    I think if you've got just two years, it might be tempting to try and win as soon as possible, and try and stack up on a few veterans right now, but I think that's a very bad strategy for the long term.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote KakashiPrince wrote: View Post
    You think we can't get a top 10 first round pick for Bargnani?
    At this point, I really have no idea what Bargnani's trade value is, but I think there's a chance you could get a top ten pick for him, and if you can I'd jump on it.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    686
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    What I would do:

    1) Trade Bargnani to get that contract off the books. A draft pick would be ideal (the higher the better)... a good young player (a C preferably)... an expiring contract... something.

    2) Failing that start the season with him on the bench.

    3) Look for a talented young C to sign (Gasol, DeAndre Jordan etc)

    4) Failing that resign Joey Dorsey (although I probably may anyways as the 5th big)

    Starting Line up:

    C - New C (or Alabi or Dorsey depending on who looked better come the start of the season and as it progresses)/Bargnani (6th man if still here)
    PF - Amir (or Ed depending on who looked better come the start of the season and as the season progresses)
    SF - JJ/Kleiza
    SG - Derozan/Barbossa
    PG - Jose/Bayless (splitting minutes 50/50 at first, whoever is looking better as season progresses takes full time starting job... or if the split is working stick with it)

    Note: this is assuming its this coming season, if its not until next season JV is the starter barring Alabi blowing up.

    5) look to move Barbossa's expiring and Bargnani (if he wasn't moved before)... draft picks are the goal

    6) only players who are (almost) unavailable to move are JV/Amir/ED... Derozan will be dependent on what he's showing.

    7) let the season progress as it will....

    8) looking at perimeter players in the draft (PG/SG/SF... again all dependent on how teams are playing).


    Ofcourse if I had my way all together I'd be trading for Lawson and Gortat (and a slew of other possible players that I'd never be able to trade for)... but I can't picture the Raps having anything to offer (that I'd want to give up) to get those guys

    What do I think BC's goal will be? Make the playoffs (for better or worse) before his contract ends. Not that I can blame him... its alot easier to say you'll do whats 'right' when you aren't risking millions of dollars by doing it

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    173
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    He should just continue the rebuild as its going right now for his 2 years. If it's going well and we're imporving he will be granted his 3rd year and in that year he could look to make a noticeable trade (i.e. Bargnani for picks + a good defender). Keep building through the draft and make key free agent signings.

    And the Buffalo Bills are making a giant comeback vs Oakland if anyone cares. They have 14 unanswered and are in the Raiders 15. 21 - 17 Oakland right now.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    17,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote KakashiPrince wrote: View Post
    You think we can't get a top 10 first round pick for Bargnani?
    No, not with his contract.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    17,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I mostly agree with your strategy. The only difference is I'd keep Calderon for two reasons. A good veteran presence and someone who will help the young players develop offensively, by getting them the ball. The main reason, though, is that I feel he's worth more to the team than you'd get for him in a trade. Because of his contract and injury history, I'm not sure you wouldn't have to take back another bad contract in return, and quite frankly, I'd rather just keep him.

    I think if you've got just two years, it might be tempting to try and win as soon as possible, and try and stack up on a few veterans right now, but I think that's a very bad strategy for the long term.
    The bolded section is what BC is currently in. I'm not too worried about this happening given in November he gave up all ideas of playoffs and started a total rebuild - in a contract year.

    As for Calderon, he might be a good presence (Gatorade anyone?) but I don't think he is a natural leader as in a guy who the team will follow. A guy like Ridnour might not bring as much as Calderon but the $6M savings in annual salary more than makes up for any shortcomings in my opinion.
    Last edited by Matt52; Sun Sep 18th, 2011 at 07:03 PM.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    17,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    What I would do:

    1) Trade Bargnani to get that contract off the books. A draft pick would be ideal (the higher the better)... a good young player (a C preferably)... an expiring contract... something.

    2) Failing that start the season with him on the bench.

    3) Look for a talented young C to sign (Gasol, DeAndre Jordan etc)

    4) Failing that resign Joey Dorsey (although I probably may anyways as the 5th big)

    Starting Line up:

    C - New C (or Alabi or Dorsey depending on who looked better come the start of the season and as it progresses)/Bargnani (6th man if still here)
    PF - Amir (or Ed depending on who looked better come the start of the season and as the season progresses)
    SF - JJ/Kleiza
    SG - Derozan/Barbossa
    PG - Jose/Bayless (splitting minutes 50/50 at first, whoever is looking better as season progresses takes full time starting job... or if the split is working stick with it)

    Note: this is assuming its this coming season, if its not until next season JV is the starter barring Alabi blowing up.

    5) look to move Barbossa's expiring and Bargnani (if he wasn't moved before)... draft picks are the goal

    6) only players who are (almost) unavailable to move are JV/Amir/ED... Derozan will be dependent on what he's showing.

    7) let the season progress as it will....

    8) looking at perimeter players in the draft (PG/SG/SF... again all dependent on how teams are playing).


    Ofcourse if I had my way all together I'd be trading for Lawson and Gortat (and a slew of other possible players that I'd never be able to trade for)... but I can't picture the Raps having anything to offer (that I'd want to give up) to get those guys

    What do I think BC's goal will be? Make the playoffs (for better or worse) before his contract ends. Not that I can blame him... its alot easier to say you'll do whats 'right' when you aren't risking millions of dollars by doing it
    To sign Gasol or Jordan you are going to need to offer a BIG contract. WIth JV coming over next year and Alabi never really getting a chance to show if he is capable as a back up (or *gasp* starter), is this a good use of cap space long term?

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The bolded section is what BC is currently in. I'm not too worried about this happening given in November he gave up all ideas of playoffs and started a total rebuild - in a contract year.

    As for Calderon, he might be a good presence (Gatorade anyone?) but I don't think he is a natural leader as in a guy who the team will follow. A guy like Ridnour might not bring as much as Calderon but the $6M savings in annual salary more than makes up for any shortcomings in my opinion.
    Drafting Valanciunas was a good indication to me he's thinking long term, and isn't (hopefully) going to do anything short-sighted.

    I think Calderon is underrated in this aspect. He has been the guy who has always brought all the players together. He brought Both, DeRozan and Weems over to Spain. He seems to be a big bridge between the Americans and Europeans, which I think is pretty damn valuable.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    To sign Gasol or Jordan you are going to need to offer a BIG contract. WIth JV coming over next year and Alabi never really getting a chance to show if he is capable as a back up (or *gasp* starter), is this a good use of cap space long term?
    Agreed. And it's pretty short-sighted, in my opinion. It creates a problem down the road, and seems like hedging your bet. Also, why would any of those centers want to sign when they know that Valanciunas is going to be coming and possibly replacing them?
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    686
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    To sign Gasol or Jordan you are going to need to offer a BIG contract. WIth JV coming over next year and Alabi never really getting a chance to show if he is capable as a back up (or *gasp* starter), is this a good use of cap space long term?
    Its all relative to how much, how long, and who's still here (ie. barg's contract). Gasol no doubt would be alot but if its a 3-4 year deal, his would be ending (roughly) just as JV's next contract would be coming up. (assuming Barg's is off the books I'd have little problems with it) Jordan I'm not sure will go for that much (if he's more than Amir... I'd be amazed and say that the owners haven't learned their lesson) but then again I didn't think Gilbert Arenas was worth a max deal when he was younger and uninjured so what do I know.

    They were really more examples than anything though.

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    17,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Drafting Valanciunas was a good indication to me he's thinking long term, and isn't (hopefully) going to do anything short-sighted.

    I think Calderon is underrated in this aspect. He has been the guy who has always brought all the players together. He brought Both, DeRozan and Weems over to Spain. He seems to be a big bridge between the Americans and Europeans, which I think is pretty damn valuable.
    I'm not trying to be a d*ck but he also brought Bosh over one year as well. I think Calderon is a good guy and teammate but I'm not sure he is a leader or a guy other players are willing to follow at the NBA level.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    686
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Agreed. And it's pretty short-sighted, in my opinion. It creates a problem down the road, and seems like hedging your bet. Also, why would any of those centers want to sign when they know that Valanciunas is going to be coming and possibly replacing them?
    damn straight it is... I'm missing how thats a bad thing? The reason the Raps are where they are (and alot of other teams for that matter) is because they didn't hedge their bets.

    Most of the championship/contending teams are where they are because they went after "sure things" (so to speak as nothing is a sure thing in sports)... rather than taking big risks.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    17,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    Its all relative to how much, how long, and who's still here (ie. barg's contract). Gasol no doubt would be alot but if its a 3-4 year deal, his would be ending (roughly) just as JV's next contract would be coming up. (assuming Barg's is off the books I'd have little problems with it) Jordan I'm not sure will go for that much (if he's more than Amir... I'd be amazed and say that the owners haven't learned their lesson) but then again I didn't think Gilbert Arenas was worth a max deal when he was younger and uninjured so what do I know.

    They were really more examples than anything though.
    Fair enough. Personally I'd rather overpay a one year deal (team option for a second) to a guy like Kwame Brown or Chuck Hayes and have Alabi play as back up at C than sign a guy who could take away from the potential development of Alabi or JV the following season.

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    17,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    damn straight it is... I'm missing how thats a bad thing? The reason the Raps are where they are (and alot of other teams for that matter) is because they didn't hedge their bets.

    Most of the championship/contending teams are where they are because they went after "sure things" (so to speak as nothing is a sure thing in sports)... rather than taking big risks.
    I think Jordan will fetch more than Amir.

    However, now you have me thinking a little bit more. If Jordan could be had for around $8M per season, I would seriously consider it. The reason why is then the Raptors would have 3 legit C's and Jordan is already capable of starting and just turned 23. He has also been playing behind Kaman (when he has been healthy albeit which has not been very often the last 2 of 3 of seasons).

    Of the three in a couple of seasons, the best will be your starter and the second best your back up. If two or three are capable starters and/or one back-ups, then you have a GM's dream of too many C's on one team in a league lacking quality C's.

    As an aside, a real reason for concern with Jordan is his FT% - yikes.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    85
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    BC's primary goal is to continue to acquire core pieces for the future and to try to get at least one all-star/franchise type player who can be the face of the franchise. I would not be going after any significant free agents until those pieces are in place. To acquire these pieces, he's going to have to go through the trade route and draft route. The 2012 draft is very deep. If the season is lost due to the lockout, they should get a top 5 pick via their 22 win season last year. So, the next step would be to shed players with value to get further young players or draft picks. At the top of the list should be Bargnani. Not sure what his value would be thought.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'm not trying to be a d*ck but he also brought Bosh over one year as well.
    I meant to type Bosh, but for some reason it ended up as Both.

    I don't know if he's a leader, per say, but he's a good guy to have on the team. His contract is done is a couple of years anyway. About the time when the Raptors will be ready to spend some money.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •