View Poll Results: Who, if anyone, to cut in an Amnesty Clause?

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27. You may not vote on this poll
  • Calderon

    6 22.22%
  • Barbosa

    0 0%
  • Amir

    1 3.70%
  • Barbosa

    0 0%
  • Bargnani

    5 18.52%
  • No one

    15 55.56%
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Thread: Who, if anyone, to cut given an Amnesty Clause?

  1. #21
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    There is no way you would use Amnesty Clause on Bargnani ... you may want to trade him and get back some assets, but let him go for nothing is just silly.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Rookie LamarVannoy's Avatar
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    The Simmons/Abrams article was great. I also liked this one:

    Simmons: Agree on Childress. Too bad the Suns can't use their amnesty on their owner.

    Anyway, Kleiza for me. It's the length that tears it. Calderon's is worse as a per year thing, but at least he's moderately productive and done sooner.

    I just can't imagine any scenario in which Raptor fans are sitting around 3 years from now saying "Boy, I'm glad we had Kleiza on our team." Unless it's because he helped us win consecutive lotteries.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I'd talk to Calderon and ask him how much he wants to be a Raptor, and then, I'd cut him and try to sign him back for less (assuming he said he really likes being a Raptor). I like Calderon, always have. I just think he's overpaid. It's not a cost-cutting move, I based this purely on principle. He is making too much money for his level of talent.

    Really what the NBA should be doing instead of an amnesty is implementing non-guaranteed contracts so that when you sign a player to big money and they refuse to rebound, or decide to risk injury every year to play international basketball and end up playing at 85% for the rest of their careers, you can cut them. It doesn't even have to be as bad as the NFL, they can put some restrictions on it like cutting can only be done if they are injured from non-NBA related activities. But at least it protects you from idiot GMs from creating horrible contracts that, even if they leave or get fired, teams have to continue to endure and suffer from for years to come.

  4. #24
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    It doesn't even have to be as bad as the NFL, they can put some restrictions on it like cutting can only be done if they are injured from non-NBA related activities. But at least it protects you from idiot GMs from creating horrible contracts that, even if they leave or get fired, teams have to continue to endure and suffer from for years to come.
    They actually already have stipulations like this in most NBA contracts.
    Remember when Monta Ellis was injured on the Moped? Golden State was in FULL right to Release him and void his contract.
    Most dangerous activities are included on this 'list'.

    However, with the "Love of the Game" clause invented my Jordan, that does not extent to playing Pick-Up basketball.
    Where Ed Davis was injured last summer.
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  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I'd talk to Calderon and ask him how much he wants to be a Raptor, and then, I'd cut him and try to sign him back for less (assuming he said he really likes being a Raptor). I like Calderon, always have. I just think he's overpaid. It's not a cost-cutting move, I based this purely on principle. He is making too much money for his level of talent.
    In the last CBA when this clause was brought in, the main condition was the player was not permitted to re-sign with the original team. Do not know if it would be the same again but I would bet that it would be the same.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Calderon is still quite productive and is a pure PG who gets everyone involved. I wouldn't cut him. Sure, he's got about 20 mil with 2 seasons left, but on this team, he's a starter and he's more of a calming influence than Bayless.

    Kleiza while his contract isn't THAT bad, who knows how he pops back from this injury - and if he can't, it's just dead weight. So I'd vote Kleiza.

    However, wouldn't it be interesting if Bargnani is the one that gets the axe....

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    TORONTO RAPTORS

    Abrams: Linas Kleiza. It would be tempting for the Raptors to use the clause on Jose Calderon, whose contract guarantees him $20.3 million over the next two years. Kleiza's contract (signed last summer) is equally awful and pays him $13.8 million through 2013-14.

    Simmons: Disagree. I'd rather chop Calderon's $20.3 million. I'm pretty sure paying eight figures a year for a backup point guard isn't getting you anywhere with a harder cap. Although really, they should see if they can use the clause on Bryan Colangelo — that's the worst single Raptors contract, right?

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...amnesty-20-nba
    Bill Simmons and Jonathan Abrams discussing amnesty clause.

    All teams are there.

    Not a bad read and some funny lines but I'm surprised at how "NBA experts" in this topic are misquoting figures for players. Examples: Martell Webster has a team option for '12-13 and David Andersen had a team option for this coming season and has since signed in Europe.... but whatever.....

  8. #28
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    ^^I posted that a few days ago ..

    We were loving Simmons.
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  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    ^^I posted that a few days ago ..

    We were loving Simmons.
    Sorry Joey.

  10. #30
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    I know that there's been a lockout and the season ended a long time ago, but you all realize that the Raptors were the 2nd worst team in the East, right? 3rd worst overall? Won only 22 games? And if there's a season, they probably won't be any better barring DeRozan turning into Michael Jordan 2.0? And we're talking about Calderon and Bargnani like they are sacred cows? REALLY? NO ONE should be bought out? To borrow a phrase from a reporter when people were complaining about how losing Kaberle off the Leafs could hurt their powerplay as it pertains to the Raptors not having Calderon to run this team and be a veteran presence: SO WHAT?! Either with or without him, they are going to be BAD, so why not let him go, create some cap room, let some of the young guys play and even give the guy a solid for being a 'good soldier' and let him go be a decent backup on a playoff team. And if they become the worst team in the league, then so be it, higher draft pick! Besides, by the time the Raptors are good again, he won't be with the team anyway.

    Personally, I would waive Bargnani. When your crowd boos your first round pick because he comes from the same CONTINENT as the player that most fans are tired of, it's probably time to cut the cord and start fresh. At this point, you can't build a team around him, unless you have 11 guys killing themselves to play defence, rebounding and do other things while Bargnani puts up his 20-3-3, hoisting up 20 shots a game. Get a start on the DeRozan/Davis era early (to see if they SHOULD be a DeRozan/Davis era) and send a signal to your fans that you're washing your hands of the past.

  11. #31
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    Quote DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
    I know that there's been a lockout and the season ended a long time ago, but you all realize that the Raptors were the 2nd worst team in the East, right? 3rd worst overall? Won only 22 games? And if there's a season, they probably won't be any better barring DeRozan turning into Michael Jordan 2.0? And we're talking about Calderon and Bargnani like they are sacred cows? REALLY? NO ONE should be bought out? To borrow a phrase from a reporter when people were complaining about how losing Kaberle off the Leafs could hurt their powerplay as it pertains to the Raptors not having Calderon to run this team and be a veteran presence: SO WHAT?! Either with or without him, they are going to be BAD, so why not let him go, create some cap room, let some of the young guys play and even give the guy a solid for being a 'good soldier' and let him go be a decent backup on a playoff team. And if they become the worst team in the league, then so be it, higher draft pick! Besides, by the time the Raptors are good again, he won't be with the team anyway.

    Personally, I would waive Bargnani. When your crowd boos your first round pick because he comes from the same CONTINENT as the player that most fans are tired of, it's probably time to cut the cord and start fresh. At this point, you can't build a team around him, unless you have 11 guys killing themselves to play defence, rebounding and do other things while Bargnani puts up his 20-3-3, hoisting up 20 shots a game. Get a start on the DeRozan/Davis era early (to see if they SHOULD be a DeRozan/Davis era) and send a signal to your fans that you're washing your hands of the past.
    I don't think you quite understand the point, here. The fact that the Raptors are one of the worst teams is EXACTLY why waiving players makes absolutely no sense. All waiving Bargnani would do is take away a trade asset from a team without a whole lot of trade assets. In order to send some sort of message, which to me is that management doesn't know what the hell they are doing. And you do realize that the Raptors would still have to continue to pay him, right? Great deal for Bargnani, who will then have his choice of where to play, and still get paid his original contract.

    Doesn't it make a hell of a lot more sense to, I don't know, TRADE a guy like Bargnani so you a) get something in return (like maybe a draft pick) and b) don't have to pay him anymore. Doesn't that make a tad more sense?
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  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Kleiza remains in BC's 'good graces': Wolstat

    Linas Kleiza, who had offseason microfracture knee surgery, remains in the good graces of Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo.

    The detail came out in a discussion about whether Toronto would waive any players under a new CBA that included amnesty. In addition to having Colangelo's support, Raptors writer Ryan Wolstat notes that Kleiza is good friends with prized draft pick Jonas Valanciunas, and his salary ($13.8 million over three years) isn't onerous. Oct. 1 - 4:25 pm et

    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...=162915&spln=1
    All via Twitter: Ryan Wolstat, Toronto Sun

    Kleiza will make $4.6 million for the next 3 seasons (2 if this one doesn't happen), that's not outrageous for a sixth or seventh man
    They aren't going to piss off a key piece (JV) by cutting his friend. Not happening. BC remains high on Kleiza
    Given existing relationship between Kleiza and Valanciunas think he only gets waived if surgery didn't work
    Calderon only has 2 seasons left and is the only true point guard on team and a leader, Kleiza will be JV's mentor + still could be useful
    Because a couple of people have asked, I don't see the #Raptors waiving anybody if amnesty is put in whenever a deal is signed.

    I wasn't sure if JV and Kleiza were close because I didn't want to think that just because they are Lithuanian that makes them BFF. However, that is a major factor why I do not think Kleiza will be waived. In my opinion there will be a deal before it is known if Kleiza will recover or not. If he doesn't recover, then it will be an insurance write off for the Raptors anyway.

    I'd still let go of Calderon if I felt I could get a young impact FA like Westbrook in 2012.

  13. #33
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'd still let go of Calderon if I felt I could get a young impact FA like Westbrook in 2012.
    I can't see Westbrook coming to a lottery team, but more importantly, I'm still not completely sold on him. On the right team, I think he'd be great, but if he's who the offense goes through, I don't think he's enough of a true PG to be the solution on a team like the Raptors, who have no one else that can create for teammates. Stick him on Miami or even Atlanta and I think he'd do great. Ask him to run the team and I think he'll struggle. We've already seen Oklahoma struggle because of his lack of true PG skills.
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  14. #34
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    I don't think Kleiza and JV are friends. I actually doubt they have meet at all before JV was drafted. They have talked some times after draft pretty sure, don't think it makes them friends already. But fact is, it will be much easier for JV to fit in NBA, if someone like Kleiza would be around.

    Kleiza, btw, is recovering well, there's no indications, why shouldn't he be back for good. And if season is late, he's not even going to miss a start.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I can't see Westbrook coming to a lottery team, but more importantly, I'm still not completely sold on him. On the right team, I think he'd be great, but if he's who the offense goes through, I don't think he's enough of a true PG to be the solution on a team like the Raptors, who have no one else that can create for teammates. Stick him on Miami or even Atlanta and I think he'd do great. Ask him to run the team and I think he'll struggle. We've already seen Oklahoma struggle because of his lack of true PG skills.
    If there really are personality clashes in OKC (which I do not believe) or Westbrook is tired of shouldering all the blame for any OKC shortcomings (which I could see happening given the media coverage thus far) or Russell pulls a Tracy McGrady saying, "I ain't no Scottie Pippen" (paraphrasing), then I could see him leaving when he gets the opportunity. As for coming to a lottery team, for certain individuals there could be no bigger challenge or ego stroker than coming in to a losing situation and being the piece to turn it all around.

    I focus on Westbrook because BC has a reputation of going after and having star or who he thinks will be star PG's (KJ, Kidd, Marbury, Hardaway, Nash, TJ Ford, Calderon, Bayless).

    As for the notion of creating for teammates, I'm not sure that is a valid point. He was 9th in the league in assists with 8.2 per game in the regular season with only .7 separating 9th and 5th and .1 separating 9th and 6th. He is capable of creating for others.

    Something to consider is the starting lineup of OKC besides Westbrook and Durant: Perkins, Ibaka, and Sefolosha. Hardly offensive juggernauts. Coming off the bench they have Maynor (who would be in for Westbrook), Harden, Collison, Mohammed, and Cook. Collison and Mohammed are garbage man and Cook is a spot up shooter. The only offensive weapon coming off the bench is Harden. After the trade of Green, there were only 3 players who averaged more than 10ppg.

    In the playoffs, Westbrook's assists did certainly take a dive (8.2 to 6.4 per game). However as we know, the game changes in the playoffs - it slows down, it is more half-court and it becomes defense oriented. The series versus Denver, Memphis, and Dallas all had very good perimeter defenders with a combination of good coaching and/or good defensive rotations/systems. Could he have done a better job of breaking the defense? Absolutely. However at 22 years of age last season, I am not ready to write him off like many in the media and I do think he'll figure it out - especially considering how far he has come in just 3 years in the league. The opportunity to play on a more balanced team could also entice him so he does not face the scrutiny and criticism when other teams tighten up on Durant. This is more of an issue to OKC's struggles than Westbrook's PG skills in my opinion.

    Maybe a chance to play with DeMar and Amir might entice him as well. I don't know, I'm grasping at straws now.

    Once just an exciting athlete who could lock down his man and get to the rim at ease, Westbrook has revealed that he is a fine distributor and has even added a smooth jumper to his arsenal. In fact, many of his shots down the stretch against New Jersey were jumpers.

    Toronto swingman DeMar DeRozan - from nearby Compton - is very aware of what makes Westbrook special.

    "He breaks down defences, he can kick the ball out and that's what makes it tough (to guard him)," DeRozan said.

    "He's a handful," echoed Carlesimo in explaining the difficulty of trying to build a game plan against the lightning quick guard.

    "He's an exceptional rebounder, good in transition, can pass the ball, (dangerous on the) pick and roll, (and has) a jump shot now."

    Still, DeRozan, who has a better feeling for Westbrook's game than most since he has been playing with and against Westbrook "since I can remember," is surprised at how far the old friend he calls "the most childish, goofy dude you've ever seen," has come.

    "I can't explain it, it's crazy, he's one of the top three exciting point guards to watch." DeRozan said.

    "I swear, 12th grade, he couldn't dunk . he was barely dunking. He wasn't doing nothing he's doing now."

    Now, young Westbrook is doing everything.

    http://www.torontosun.com/sports/bas.../16409221.html
    One thing I feel confident in saying is there would be no better way for Colangelo to get a long term extension in Toronto than to draft a future star wing in 2012 and sign an All-Star free agent the same summer in addition to JV/ED/Amir fulfilling the potential they all show in a big man rotation (Alabi would be the cherry on top).

  16. #36
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    As for the notion of creating for teammates, I'm not sure that is a valid point. He was 9th in the league in assists with 8.2 per game in the regular season with only .7 separating 9th and 5th and .1 separating 9th and 6th. He is capable of creating for others.

    Something to consider is the starting lineup of OKC besides Westbrook and Durant: Perkins, Ibaka, and Sefolosha. Hardly offensive juggernauts. Coming off the bench they have Maynor (who would be in for Westbrook), Harden, Collison, Mohammed, and Cook. Collison and Mohammed are garbage man and Cook is a spot up shooter. The only offensive weapon coming off the bench is Harden. After the trade of Green, there were only 3 players who averaged more than 10ppg.
    He moves up to 7th if you look at assists per 48.... but he is also 36th in A:TO ratio, and 27th amongst starting PGs.

    Definetely more of a PG than a bunch out there.... like say a Lou Williams or a Mike Bibby (well what he is now)


    fga:assists
    08/09 2.5:1
    09/10 1.8:1
    10/11 2.1:1

    playoffs

    09/10 2.5:1
    10/11 3.2:1

    He took over 20 shots a game in the playoffs while averaging less than 40% shooting..... 3 more shots a game and his fg% dropped 5% from the regular season. Ast:TO ratio went from a bad 2.12 in the Regular season to a terrible 1.38 in the post season. And while I completely believe what you said is true about the playoffs,ie. game slows down and defense tightens up, this kind of hints at some poor decision making.....

    Question then becomes, if he is not 'forced' (not the best term but I'm sure you know what I mean) to pass to Durant... which he seemed to choose to not do these playoffs.... how much more does he shoot vs pass?

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    He moves up to 7th if you look at assists per 48.... but he is also 36th in A:TO ratio, and 27th amongst starting PGs.

    Definetely more of a PG than a bunch out there.... like say a Lou Williams or a Mike Bibby (well what he is now)


    fga:assists
    08/09 2.5:1
    09/10 1.8:1
    10/11 2.1:1

    playoffs

    09/10 2.5:1
    10/11 3.2:1

    He took over 20 shots a game in the playoffs while averaging less than 40% shooting..... 3 more shots a game and his fg% dropped 5% from the regular season. Ast:TO ratio went from a bad 2.12 in the Regular season to a terrible 1.38 in the post season. And while I completely believe what you said is true about the playoffs,ie. game slows down and defense tightens up, this kind of hints at some poor decision making.....

    Question then becomes, if he is not 'forced' (not the best term but I'm sure you know what I mean) to pass to Durant... which he seemed to choose to not do these playoffs.... how much more does he shoot vs pass?
    It could also be good scouting by opposing teams (especially Memphis and Dallas) and good perimeter defenders forcing the Thunder out of their comfort zone. Outside of Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, there is no consistent scoring threat on this team.

  18. #38
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It could also be good scouting by opposing teams (especially Memphis and Dallas) and good perimeter defenders forcing the Thunder out of their comfort zone. Outside of Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, there is no consistent scoring threat on this team.
    It could be... could also be he choose to try and take over even when he had Durant on his team.

    Chris Paul's A:TO ratio dropped quite a bit but still 3.14:1, his FG% went to 55% while his FG taken dropped but his assists increased

    Mike Conley's numbers changed amazingly close to Westbrook's. Mind you less shots

    Rondo's numbers were almost identical to his Reg season.

    Jason Kidd's A:TO ratio dropped but everything else stayed about the same

    Andre Miller's FG% went up, assists went down about 1.5 and turnovers went up 0.5

    Derek Rose's shots went up by 3 a game, and FG% dropped significantly. But his assists stayed the same and TO went up marginally.

    Tony Parker was similar to Westbrook (FG% down, assist down A:TO ratio up) although with a much better FG% and significantly less shots than Westbrook



    Take that for what you will... but seems to me like Westbrook has been earned himself some well deserved criticism. Especially considering, aside from maybe Kidd, he had the best teammate on this list.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    It could be... could also be he choose to try and take over even when he had Durant on his team.

    Chris Paul's A:TO ratio dropped quite a bit but still 3.14:1, his FG% went to 55% while his FG taken dropped but his assists increased

    Mike Conley's numbers changed amazingly close to Westbrook's. Mind you less shots

    Rondo's numbers were almost identical to his Reg season.

    Jason Kidd's A:TO ratio dropped but everything else stayed about the same

    Andre Miller's FG% went up, assists went down about 1.5 and turnovers went up 0.5

    Derek Rose's shots went up by 3 a game, and FG% dropped significantly. But his assists stayed the same and TO went up marginally.

    Tony Parker was similar to Westbrook (FG% down, assist down A:TO ratio up) although with a much better FG% and significantly less shots than Westbrook



    Take that for what you will... but seems to me like Westbrook has been earned himself some well deserved criticism. Especially considering, aside from maybe Kidd, he had the best teammate on this list.
    My opinion was OKC does not have many offensive weapons. In the playoffs, when you play the same team up to 7 times in 2 weeks and at more of a grind pace, there is plenty of time to prepare and adjust for the opponent.

    Other players on other teams is sort of an apples to oranges example. I get your point but there are too many variables for it to be valid for anything other than an opinion. With that said, here is a comparison of Derrick Rose's and Westbrook's regular season stats:

    37.4min/25.0pts/8.8-19.7fg/.445 fg%/1.6-4.8 3pa/.332 3pt%/5.9-6.9ft/ .858ft%/4.1reb/7.7ast/0.6blk/1.0stl/3.4to

    34.7min/21.9pts/7.5-17.0fg/.442fg%/0.4-1.3 3pa/.3303pt%/6.5-7.7ft/.842ft%/4.6reb/8.2ast/0.4blk/1.9stl/3.9to

    and playoff stats:

    40.6 min/27.1pts/9.3-23.5fg/.396fg%/1.6-6.3 3pa/.248 3pt%/6.9-8.4ft/.828ft%/4.3reb/7.7ast/0.7blk/1.4stl/3.7to

    37.5 min/23.8pts/7.9-20.2fg/.394ft%/0.8-2.8 3pa/.292 3pt%/7.1-8.4ft/.852 ft%/5.4reb/6.4ast/0.4blk/1.4stl/4.6to


    In my opinion Westbrook is a phenomenal player who is just 22 with 3 NBA seasons under his belt. If the Raptors had a chance to pluck him from OKC in the summer of 2012 combined with what they already have and could acquire in next year's draft, I would do it in a heartbeat especially if the only thing standing in the way was cutting Calderon (back to topic of thread).

    It is this very negative attitude and opinion of the Raptors signing one of the most promising young PG's in the league today that I hope helps propels him out of OKC. Considering Chicago has no one of Durant's abilities on its' roster and the similarity of their stats, I hope Westbrook has a desire to be 'the man' for lack of a better word. I hope he tires of the criticism as Durant continues to be squeakly clean and can do no wrong. I hope Perkins continues to be the @ss he appears to be and disses him with the Rondo crap all next year. I hope dissension sets in on the roster and his California friends in Toronto tell him the joys of playing in Raptorland.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sun Oct 2nd, 2011 at 04:41 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    My opinion was OKC does not have many offensive weapons. In the playoffs, when you play the same team up to 7 times in 2 weeks and at more of a grind pace, there is plenty of time to prepare and adjust for the opponent.

    Other players on other teams is sort of an apples to oranges example. I get your point but there are too many variables for it to be valid for anything other than an opinion. With that said, here is a comparison of Derrick Rose's and Westbrook's regular season stats:

    37.4min/25.0pts/8.8-19.7fg/.445 fg%/1.6-4.8 3pa/.332 3pt%/5.9-6.9ft/ .858ft%/4.1reb/7.7ast/0.6blk/1.0stl/3.4to
    34.7min/21.9pts/7.5-17.0fg/.442fg%/0.4-1.3 3pa/.3303pt%/6.5-7.7ft/.842ft%/4.6reb/8.2 ast/0.4blk/1.9stl/3.9to

    and playoff stats:

    40.6 min/27.1pts/9.3-23.5fg/.396fg%/1.6-6.3 3pa/.248 3pt%/6.9-8.4ft/.828ft%/4.3reb/7.7ast/0.7blk/1.4stl/3.7to
    37.5 min/23.8pts/7.9-20.2fg/.394ft%/0.8-2.8 3pa/.292 3pt%/7.1-8.4ft/.852 ft%/5.4reb/6.4ast/0.4blk/1.4stl/4.6to


    In my opinion Westbrook is a phenomenal player who is just 22 with 3 NBA seasons under his belt. If the Raptors had a chance to pluck him from OKC in the summer of 2012 combined with what they already have and could acquire in next year's draft, I would do it in a heartbeat especially if the only thing standing in the way was cutting Calderon (back to topic of thread).

    It is this very negative attitude and opinion of signing one of the most promising young PG's in the league today to the Raptors that I hope helps propels him out of OKC. Considering Chicago has no one of Durant's abilities on its' roster and the similarity of their stats, I hope Westbrook has a desire to be 'the man' for lack of a better word. I hope he tires of the criticism as Durant continues to be squeakly clean and can do no wrong. I hope Perkins continues to be the @ss he appears to be and disses him with the Rondo crap all next year. I hope dissension sets in on the roster and his California friends in Toronto tell him the joys of playing in Raptorland.
    I'm not saying the Raps, if they ever had the opportunity (which I don't think they will but thats neither here nor there), shouldn't sign him. I think he is fun to watch, and is a talented player. I just think people have been too high on these scoring PGs yet few have proven they can take their team to the top. Even moreso that he decided to try and take games over himself when he had the best scorer in the league beside him.... think Dallas would have turned out the same if they didn't stick with going to Dirk?

    As for OKC not having scoring options.... well they have, arguably, the best scorer in the game. They also have a great scoring 6th man in Harden. So what exactly do these other teams have:

    Chicago.... Boozer and Deng?

    Portland.... Aldridge and Mathews?

    Dallas.... Nowitzki and Terry?

    Memphis.... Randolph and?

    NO.... West and?

    Boston... Pierce and Ray. KG still has game.

    SA.... Ginobli, Duncan and Hill



    I don't know... its not like all these other teams are riddled with scoring options either. And not a single one of them have Durant, which pretty much give OKC an edge over most.

    As for age.... well I can name a ton of NBA players who were young once and didn't do squat, didn't improve or didn't change. Not saying Westbrook will be like that, but age is often just a red herring
    Last edited by GarbageTime; Sun Oct 2nd, 2011 at 05:04 PM.

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