tbihis wrote:
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GarbageTime wrote: View Postahh but thats where part of the debate comes in. The players work.... the owners pay them... the customers pay the owners... but the players bring in the customers. See the cycle here? These guys are not your average labourers working construction or retail or in service etc. They are not easily replaceable. If they were they wouldn't make what they do. Ownership knows this and they want to keep them, while paying them less (makes perfect sense)... but the employees know this to so they want to maximize their income (also makes perfect sense). So its not nearly as simple as just 'firing' a guy like in most work environments and its not exactly a 'share of the profits'... its where their salaries are compared to revenues.
i think in the business setting, you have sales rep and cs reps who sweet talk customers to buy their company's products and theyre the ones who actually form a relationship with the customers, not the company. the difference is, customers become loyal to the brand of the company, while in the NBA, customers become loyal to the players who carry the brand.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostMy opinion of the players has become more negative as they have shown they truly do not have a clue.
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Apollo wrote: View PostI'll co-sign this but I voted I just want basketball back. If the player cause the season to be shortened or lost that will be the point where I'm really going to have a big problem with them.
Random question, can i watch raptors games on TSN/raptors tv online if i log on to rogers on demand? My friend said he can watch jays and leafs games.
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I will note one more thing. The little respect for Garnett that I had left I almost non-existent now at this point. The guy is a clown. I'll be happy when he's out of the league.
tbihis wrote: View PostSame here. i really dont care who gets what since i just watch bball for free, i just want basketball back.
tbihis wrote: View PostRandom question, can i watch raptors games on TSN/raptors tv online if i log on to rogers on demand? My friend said he can watch jays and leafs games.
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its the owners fault for making the players feel that way, the "if it wasnt for me, you have nothing" mentality.
I would LOVE to see the league change some rules back to how they used to be and start selling teams instead of players. Bring back the hand check, be tougher on refs especially when it comes to 'star calls' etc. It may seem a bit irrelevant to this debate itself, but in the long run it will take atleast some of the power away (or spread it around) from a smaller group of players by making them less important (not completely as the greats will always be great ofcourse).
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GarbageTime wrote: View Posti think there is a ton of truth to that. Like I said when discussing parts of this with Matt52 before. The owners built frankensteins because it was benificial for them (changed the rules to give the stars more freedom, this allowed for them to do great things, the league sold these great things, these great things became core to the financial strength of the league, the guys doing these great things are now at the core of the financial well being of the league.) Now they want to limit the cost of those frankensteins but continue to build them (and bet on them). Not an easy task.
I would LOVE to see the league change some rules back to how they used to be and start selling teams instead of players. Bring back the hand check, be tougher on refs especially when it comes to 'star calls' etc. It may seem a bit irrelevant to this debate itself, but in the long run it will take atleast some of the power away (or spread it around) from a smaller group of players by making them less important (not completely as the greats will always be great ofcourse).
"Damn professional basketball players think the world owes them somethin'!"Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Oct 20, 2011, 05:03 PM.
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GarbageTime wrote: View Posti think there is a ton of truth to that. Like I said when discussing parts of this with Matt52 before. The owners built frankensteins because it was benificial for them (changed the rules to give the stars more freedom, this allowed for them to do great things, the league sold these great things, these great things became core to the financial strength of the league, the guys doing these great things are now at the core of the financial well being of the league.) Now they want to limit the cost of those frankensteins but continue to build them (and bet on them). Not an easy task.
I would LOVE to see the league change some rules back to how they used to be and start selling teams instead of players. Bring back the hand check, be tougher on refs especially when it comes to 'star calls' etc. It may seem a bit irrelevant to this debate itself, but in the long run it will take atleast some of the power away (or spread it around) from a smaller group of players by making them less important (not completely as the greats will always be great ofcourse).
But i think thats what the owners are trying to do now, trying to take back whats theirs and putting the players in their place. But i think its too late.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostTimes and circumstances change. This is not 2005 nor 1998. The US and most of the western world has been in a recession for 3 years. The only people who do not feel they should not face any of these new realities are NBA players (EDIT: and the people of Greece.)
"Damn professional basketball players think the world owes them somethin'!"
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GarbageTime wrote: View PostReally? Because the players didn't offer a decrease in BRI and pay cuts? Huh silly me.....
A new CBA is a clean slate, so again, times and circumstances change and it is becoming clear that the 'offer' from the players is not in line with the fiscal reality of the owners and league.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostOn a deal that has expired and on revenues that do not belong to the players.
A new CBA is a clean slate, so again, times and circumstances change and it is becoming clear that the 'offer' from the players is not in line with the fiscal reality of the owners and league.
The more I read on this 'BRI %' the more I realize its not this great benifit to the players some are making it out to be.
But lets get in line with fiscal reality. Lose all caps, max salaries etc., don't base salaries on BRI. Lets see where that 'reality' leads NBA salaries.
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GarbageTime wrote: View Postumm it is salary based on revenues... not some sort of 'revenue sharing' with the players. That same basis for revenues allows owners to not pay for labour above and beyond that limit, so when the owners offer salaries above the BRI% (which they do each and every year) it comes out of the players own salary.
The more I read on this 'BRI %' the more I realize its not this great benifit to the players some are making it out to be.
But lets get in line with fiscal reality. Lose all caps, max salaries etc., don't base salaries on BRI. Lets see where that 'reality' leads NBA salaries.
It is salary based on nothing right now. Old, expired CBA. The players are employees, not partners. The break down of talks tonight show who the bosses are. That is not meant to be a power statement, that is the truth.
That 'reality' leads NBA salaries quite high in a league with - possibly - 6-10 teams. The union continues to act in its own worst interests.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostTimes and circumstances change. This is not 2005 nor 1998. The US and most of the western world has been in a recession for 3 years. The only people who do not feel they should not face any of these new realities are NBA players (EDIT: and the people of Greece.)
"Damn professional basketball players think the world owes them somethin'!"
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Matt52 wrote: View PostIt is salary based on nothing right now. Old, expired CBA. The players are employees, not partners. The break down of talks tonight show who the bosses are. That is not meant to be a power statement, that is the truth.
That 'reality' leads NBA salaries quite high in a league with - possibly - 6-10 teams. The union continues to act in its own worst interests.
Its not like a break down was because the players 'gave in' and the owners decided that was not enough anymore. The players offered a 0.5% decrease owners said 50/50 or the talks end, and the talks ended.
If I send my son to bed unless he eats his peas, and he says fine I'm going to bed... can I walk proud as "the boss"?
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