View Poll Results: Since the lockout has begun my...

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  • opinion of the owners has become more negative

    10 21.74%
  • opinion of the owners has become more positive

    3 6.52%
  • opinion of the players has become more negative

    24 52.17%
  • opinion of the players has become more positive

    2 4.35%
  • opinion of the owners and players is unchanged. I just want basketball again.

    20 43.48%
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Thread: Your opinion of the NBA

  1. #21
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    its the owners fault for making the players feel that way, the "if it wasnt for me, you have nothing" mentality.
    i think there is a ton of truth to that. Like I said when discussing parts of this with Matt52 before. The owners built frankensteins because it was benificial for them (changed the rules to give the stars more freedom, this allowed for them to do great things, the league sold these great things, these great things became core to the financial strength of the league, the guys doing these great things are now at the core of the financial well being of the league.) Now they want to limit the cost of those frankensteins but continue to build them (and bet on them). Not an easy task.

    I would LOVE to see the league change some rules back to how they used to be and start selling teams instead of players. Bring back the hand check, be tougher on refs especially when it comes to 'star calls' etc. It may seem a bit irrelevant to this debate itself, but in the long run it will take atleast some of the power away (or spread it around) from a smaller group of players by making them less important (not completely as the greats will always be great ofcourse).

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    i think there is a ton of truth to that. Like I said when discussing parts of this with Matt52 before. The owners built frankensteins because it was benificial for them (changed the rules to give the stars more freedom, this allowed for them to do great things, the league sold these great things, these great things became core to the financial strength of the league, the guys doing these great things are now at the core of the financial well being of the league.) Now they want to limit the cost of those frankensteins but continue to build them (and bet on them). Not an easy task.

    I would LOVE to see the league change some rules back to how they used to be and start selling teams instead of players. Bring back the hand check, be tougher on refs especially when it comes to 'star calls' etc. It may seem a bit irrelevant to this debate itself, but in the long run it will take atleast some of the power away (or spread it around) from a smaller group of players by making them less important (not completely as the greats will always be great ofcourse).
    Times and circumstances change. This is not 2005 nor 1998. The US and most of the western world has been in a recession for 3 years. The only people who do not feel they should not face any of these new realities are NBA players (EDIT: and the people of Greece.)





    "Damn professional basketball players think the world owes them somethin'!"
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Oct 20th, 2011 at 05:03 PM.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    i think there is a ton of truth to that. Like I said when discussing parts of this with Matt52 before. The owners built frankensteins because it was benificial for them (changed the rules to give the stars more freedom, this allowed for them to do great things, the league sold these great things, these great things became core to the financial strength of the league, the guys doing these great things are now at the core of the financial well being of the league.) Now they want to limit the cost of those frankensteins but continue to build them (and bet on them). Not an easy task.

    I would LOVE to see the league change some rules back to how they used to be and start selling teams instead of players. Bring back the hand check, be tougher on refs especially when it comes to 'star calls' etc. It may seem a bit irrelevant to this debate itself, but in the long run it will take atleast some of the power away (or spread it around) from a smaller group of players by making them less important (not completely as the greats will always be great ofcourse).
    Totally agree. I actually didnt think about those things till you mentioned it. The league is at fault too, for giving players too much perks like star calls, getting fans to vote the all star starters, etc.

    But i think thats what the owners are trying to do now, trying to take back whats theirs and putting the players in their place. But i think its too late.

  4. #24
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Times and circumstances change. This is not 2005 nor 1998. The US and most of the western world has been in a recession for 3 years. The only people who do not feel they should not face any of these new realities are NBA players (EDIT: and the people of Greece.)


    "Damn professional basketball players think the world owes them somethin'!"
    Really? Because the players didn't offer a decrease in BRI and pay cuts? Huh silly me.....

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    Really? Because the players didn't offer a decrease in BRI and pay cuts? Huh silly me.....
    On a deal that has expired and on revenues that do not belong to the players.

    A new CBA is a clean slate, so again, times and circumstances change and it is becoming clear that the 'offer' from the players is not in line with the fiscal reality of the owners and league.

  6. #26
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    On a deal that has expired and on revenues that do not belong to the players.

    A new CBA is a clean slate, so again, times and circumstances change and it is becoming clear that the 'offer' from the players is not in line with the fiscal reality of the owners and league.
    umm it is salary based on revenues... not some sort of 'revenue sharing' with the players. That same basis for revenues allows owners to not pay for labour above and beyond that limit, so when the owners offer salaries above the BRI% (which they do each and every year) it comes out of the players own salary.

    The more I read on this 'BRI %' the more I realize its not this great benifit to the players some are making it out to be.

    But lets get in line with fiscal reality. Lose all caps, max salaries etc., don't base salaries on BRI. Lets see where that 'reality' leads NBA salaries.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    umm it is salary based on revenues... not some sort of 'revenue sharing' with the players. That same basis for revenues allows owners to not pay for labour above and beyond that limit, so when the owners offer salaries above the BRI% (which they do each and every year) it comes out of the players own salary.

    The more I read on this 'BRI %' the more I realize its not this great benifit to the players some are making it out to be.

    But lets get in line with fiscal reality. Lose all caps, max salaries etc., don't base salaries on BRI. Lets see where that 'reality' leads NBA salaries.

    It is salary based on nothing right now. Old, expired CBA. The players are employees, not partners. The break down of talks tonight show who the bosses are. That is not meant to be a power statement, that is the truth.

    That 'reality' leads NBA salaries quite high in a league with - possibly - 6-10 teams. The union continues to act in its own worst interests.

  8. #28
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Times and circumstances change. This is not 2005 nor 1998. The US and most of the western world has been in a recession for 3 years. The only people who do not feel they should not face any of these new realities are NBA players (EDIT: and the people of Greece.)





    "Damn professional basketball players think the world owes them somethin'!"
    I like the lady at the end of the bit. That's who they need to put KG in a room with when he feels he needs to go into "game mode" or "martyr mode", depending on who's giving you the narrative.

  9. #29
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It is salary based on nothing right now. Old, expired CBA. The players are employees, not partners. The break down of talks tonight show who the bosses are. That is not meant to be a power statement, that is the truth.

    That 'reality' leads NBA salaries quite high in a league with - possibly - 6-10 teams. The union continues to act in its own worst interests.
    Its salary based on the next BRI and the previous BRI. Clearly with nothing happening at this precise moment any BRI doesn't exist, but one will and did and both the owners and players are basing salaries on it. Come on now stop distracting.

    Its not like a break down was because the players 'gave in' and the owners decided that was not enough anymore. The players offered a 0.5% decrease owners said 50/50 or the talks end, and the talks ended.

    If I send my son to bed unless he eats his peas, and he says fine I'm going to bed... can I walk proud as "the boss"?

  10. #30
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    Based on the poll it looks like most people are either turning on the players or don't want to picks sides.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    Its salary based on the next BRI and the previous BRI. Clearly with nothing happening at this precise moment any BRI doesn't exist, but one will and did and both the owners and players are basing salaries on it. Come on now stop distracting.

    Its not like a break down was because the players 'gave in' and the owners decided that was not enough anymore. The players offered a 0.5% decrease owners said 50/50 or the talks end, and the talks ended.

    If I send my son to bed unless he eats his peas, and he says fine I'm going to bed... can I walk proud as "the boss"?
    Guess what he'll have for breakfast: peas.

    Guess what the owners will offer the players in a couple of months: 50/50.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Random question, can i watch raptors games on TSN/raptors tv online if i log on to rogers on demand? My friend said he can watch jays and leafs games.
    there are means of watching these games through methods that may only be legal in poverty stricken eastern european countries..... just sayin.

    i havent had cable in years. hell, most tv shows are streamed live by somebody these days. networks shouldn't care, because you're still watching their commercials... you'd only be stickin it to rogers/bell... and really... im pretty sure we can all agree... F#$& THEM

  13. #33
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    there are means of watching these games through methods that may only be legal in poverty stricken eastern european countries..... just sayin.

    i havent had cable in years. hell, most tv shows are streamed live by somebody these days. networks shouldn't care, because you're still watching their commercials... you'd only be stickin it to rogers/bell... and really... im pretty sure we can all agree... F#$& THEM
    hahahaha

    i dont have cable either. Rogers charges $80 a month for 1000 channels, 500 are in languages i cant understand, 200 are duplicate channels, 250 you need to pay extra to watch.

    problem with streams is youre at the mercy of the person broadcasting, i remember the ATL game where Bosh had the game winner, as soon as the shot went up, the dumbf**k turned the stream off.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    hahahaha

    i dont have cable either. Rogers charges $80 a month for 1000 channels, 500 are in languages i cant understand, 200 are duplicate channels, 250 you need to pay extra to watch.
    ya... and then when you realize you only actually watch like maybe 5 or 6 of those channels ever... and half of those you can get for free anyways... in HD no less!... really makes you question what you're paying rogers for

  15. #35
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    ya... and then when you realize you only actually watch like maybe 5 or 6 of those channels ever... and half of those you can get for free anyways... in HD no less!... really makes you question what you're paying rogers for
    I'm with Bell and I can't complain at all.

    I pay $120 a month for Satellite and Internet. (Was like $70 a month for the first year.)

    That includes NBATV Canada, All SportsNets, All TSNs in HD.
    And Full Stable of HD Channels, plus Discovery HD and NatGeo HD. (Completely addicted to these two.)

    But here's the kicker .. my Satellite box has a built in DVR .. greatest Invention EVER.
    Can record up to 200 hours of SD Quality, and 30 hours of HD.

    I tell anyone that'll listen, that I used to be with Rogers and will NEVER go back. Bell is Fantastic.
    In Masai we Trust.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I'm with Bell and I can't complain at all.

    I pay $120 a month for Satellite and Internet. (Was like $70 a month for the first year.)

    That includes NBATV Canada, All SportsNets, All TSNs in HD.
    And Full Stable of HD Channels, plus Discovery HD and NatGeo HD. (Completely addicted to these two.)

    But here's the kicker .. my Satellite box has a built in DVR .. greatest Invention EVER.
    Can record up to 200 hours of SD Quality, and 30 hours of HD.

    I tell anyone that'll listen, that I used to be with Rogers and will NEVER go back. Bell is Fantastic.
    for the most part... i've been pretty happy with rogers.. oddly enough... i just found cable tv in general pretty useless for me... there were points where i'd notice that i havent watched anything other than breakfast television for a few weeks straight... breakfast television is free in HD!

    what are the internet usage limits on bell like?

    i'm pretty close to the end of my rogers contract... i gotta leverage free stuff out of them

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    and vote for my dog people... me and the evil ex are in a neck in neck race... seperated by like 14 votes.. \/ \/ \/

  18. #38
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And that right there sums it up.
    20 years ago, you would never have had top stars in their prime looking to team up together.
    I keep hearing former players say that but it's not true. Barkley and Clyde wanted to team up with Hakeem in Houston and got their wish, Hill and Tmac teamed up. But especially if you go back a bit further the league was smaller and you had multiple Stars/superstars on one team so there was less "need" to team up because the GMs were able to build deep, talented teams.

    Jordan/Pippen/Rodman,
    Zeke/Dumars/Big Bill,
    Magic/Worthy/West/Kareem,
    Bird/Mchale/Parrish,
    Payton/Kemp,
    Allen/Big Dog/Cassell
    Malone/DrJ/Leo/Mo Cheeks
    Run TMC

    Todays league is watered down and I very much wish they'd contract. Ditch Sac and NOH or ATL.

  19. #39
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    for the most part... i've been pretty happy with rogers.. oddly enough... i just found cable tv in general pretty useless for me... there were points where i'd notice that i havent watched anything other than breakfast television for a few weeks straight... breakfast television is free in HD!

    what are the internet usage limits on bell like?

    i'm pretty close to the end of my rogers contract... i gotta leverage free stuff out of them
    I don't do alot of downloading, so I've never really reached my limit, but I think I've got 30 gigs?
    But I can only ever download at like 250kps, which can get a little frustrating, but like I said, I don't do alot of downloading.

    Its fast enough for anything worth doing online ... haha

    I won't ever complain about download rates though, because I was one of the ones that would spend a whole day downloading ONE song. haha I know how far we've come.
    In Masai we Trust.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I don't do alot of downloading, so I've never really reached my limit, but I think I've got 30 gigs?
    But I can only ever download at like 250kps, which can get a little frustrating, but like I said, I don't do alot of downloading.

    Its fast enough for anything worth doing online ... haha

    I won't ever complain about download rates though, because I was one of the ones that would spend a whole day downloading ONE song. haha I know how far we've come.
    lol... my downloads would scare the living crap out of you.... at any given time i have 20-30 active torrents of perfectly legal software purchases.

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