thatguythere wrote:
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Bendit wrote: View PostIf this is in large part a pr battle for the hearts and minds of the fans I am frankly amazed why neither side has proposed even a meagre decrease in the price of tickets (need not be the most exp. seats) as a gesture of some understanding that in many cities the price of tickets has bypassed many. With the players clearly being made to look like the "bad guys" their union leaders should be all over this gesture.
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planetmars wrote: View PostApollo, I think you make an excellent point. I think most people are not looking at the Raptors best interest when it comes to what could happen with the league in the new CBA.
planetmars wrote: View Post- A way to prevent super teams from being created because star players want to join together. Toronto would never have a fighting chance with a system like this - especially if star players are the ones that will help you win the championship. This is tricky because you want to encourage players from testing free agency, and you can't stop players from talking to each other.. It really sucks that players would want to play with each other and "steal" a championship instead of wanting to do it the "right" way.
planetmars wrote: View Post- A way for a team to help keep its free agent. So I would love to abolish the sign and trade, and to help teams have a chance to pay more to their own FA then someone else's. Perhaps create the franchise tag.
planetmars wrote: View Post- Getting rid of the Mid-Level exception as that would prevent Bryan from signing players like Kapono. This is the kind of exception that can get your team screwed if your GM doesn't know what he's doing. By removing it completely it also hurts teams like Miami and NY from continuing to build on their 'super' teams (both teams are coincidentally in the Raptor's conference).
planetmars wrote: View Post- If there is a hard cap, I'd like to see it on the higher end. The Raptors have money, and I'm sure MLSE (or whoever the new owner will be) will not have a problem spending money if it means creating a competitive team. I think the tax system that the owners are proposing is fine, as it would prevent teams with crazy money from spending, but if the cap is high enough, it can help a team like the Raptors want to spend money. Maybe a cap of something like $70-$75mil. Higher than it was in the old CBA, but not too high so teams like LA, Miami, Dallas etc can't just keep buying championships.
I did go on to comment on more of your post but somehow it was lost. Luckily I had saved half of my post in a notepad, like I usually do when I'm writing a long post. I must have deleted the other half when I went into edit a word...
Anyway, to summarize the rest of it:
- I don't think Bargnani's contract is bad.
- I'd much rather see guaranteed contracts removed and in this scenario contract length wouldn't need a limit to the number of years.
- I don't think there should be a age limit on players coming out of high school but I do understand the risk to the player and the team. The league sounds like it want to increase the age limit.
- I think the Amnesty clause is important to the product because helps the league as a whole get rid of dead weight. I'm thinking about all us fans, not just Raptors fans.
- I think the Raptors should get the option to use their TPE but I feel they could get a player at that level during free agency and for less cash.
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My opinion of the owners and of stern has gone down I guess, although I always thought they were rotters, most of them. The main issue here is revenue sharing, since there's practically none now, and almost all NFL revenue is shared nearly 50/50. Pete Rozelle got that done decades ago and Stern didn't, and that's the bottom line. Stern's presence is the problem. A stronger commissioner could get revenue sharing done and then come to an agreement with the union. Stern and the owners' manipulation of the PR to suggest this is all about the greedy players -- who have already agreed to take 53% instead of 57% -- makes them seem all the more morally bankrupt. But I already knew they were scumbags. Most of them got where they are, not from talent or initiative, but from buying off politicians and lining their pockets with taxpayer money. That was the problem with the Sonics, for example, Stern got rid of the owner because he wasn't robbing the taxpayers successfully enough, and gave the franchise to someone who could rob the taxpayers of another market.
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Brandon wrote: View PostStern and the owners' manipulation of the PR to suggest this is all about the greedy players -- who have already agreed to take 53% instead of 57% -- makes them seem all the more morally bankrupt. But I already knew they were scumbags.
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Liars about what? That's about as vague a post as you could have written that leaves the powerful word "liars" or your later statement "(insert profanity) liars" open to the imagination. If I'm mistaken then please by all means take the time to quote Derek Fisher but, if I heard it right yesterday, what you're referring to now is the Owners suggesting the players walked out on the meeting and then Derek Fisher came out later and said that the owners told the players to leave. Is this what you're talking about?
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Apollo wrote: View PostLiars about what? That's about as vague a post as you could have written that leaves the powerful word "liars" or your later statement "(insert profanity) liars" open to the imagination. If I'm mistaken then please by all means take the time to quote Derek Fisher but, if I heard it right yesterday, what you're referring to now is the Owners suggesting the players walked out on the meeting and then Derek Fisher came out later and said that the owners told the players to leave. Is this what you're talking about?
"They made it clear that if our position was that we were unwilling to move beyond 50% there was nothing else to talk about, and that's when the discussions broke off today."
(I believe the key comment Fisher was referring to)
Derek Fisher said:
"You guys have been lied to."
and
"They're interested in telling you one sided stories that are not true"
and
"A couple of the comments we heard coming out of here a short time ago are just not true at all."
Well it certainly wasn't as confrontational as I was remembering it. Fisher only said we had been told lies but didn't name any names. I will agree this example doesn't account for how strongly I represented my opinion but my sentiments remain.
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albertan_10 wrote: View PostI agree with this. why are the superstars representing at these meetings? they're always going to make big money. it's th elittle guys that are losing in this lock out, they should be at the meetings
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Apollo wrote: View PostThis is an excellent point. They system needs to be at least modified to highly discourage players from bailing on their franchise and pulling what James and Bosh pulled. Now we here Howard is probably thinking he's going to pull the same crap on Orlando. I'm betting on Stern and the owners crushing this fad now... Somehow.
Neither LBJ nor Bosh did anything other than leave. They didn't "pull" anything, they played out their contracts and left when it was obvious that staying wasn't going so well. Would it have been better to come out and say "trade me cuz I'm leaving" ? In normal speak that's called a trade demand and we'd of all blasted them for that (same as we did to Vince).
As for my earlier list, as you read it remember that trades were much easier in a smaller, capless league. Also keep in mind that both Sir Chuck and Clyde asked for trades to a contender, Payton went ring chasing with LAL AND Miami, Bostons big 3 were assembled under a radically different system and I can go on.
The point is that the as much as we may not like the idea of players playing GM, they did it in a totally legit way, waiting to be FA's before walking away. If the suits in Toronto and Cleveland had built better teams around Chris and James they'd still have them.
Hell, if you guys wanna be pissed off at players screwing their teams over, look at Carmello. What he did to Denver was selfish, cowardly and reprehensible. Kobe started a mini trend when he refused to play for CHA and forced the LA trade, that was also worse.LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!
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got off track a bit but the point is that players have definitely been influencing, demanding and forcing the issue to get their way long before "The Decision". In the age before twitter, the internet and the 24hr newscycle this kind of uglinesss was easier to hide but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!
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Apollo wrote: View PostThis is an excellent point. They system needs to be at least modified to highly discourage players from bailing on their franchise and pulling what James and Bosh pulled. Now we here Howard is probably thinking he's going to pull the same crap on Orlando. I'm betting on Stern and the owners crushing this fad now... Somehow.
"Their franchise" is an interesting phrase. That implies that the players own the franchise, but I'd say, in most pro sports, especially team sports, the reverse is true. Dwight Howard was drafted by the Magic. If he didn't play well and produce, they'd toss him away like a piece of rubbish. But he cannot make the same choice.
Fans and sports organizations often treat athletes as though they are disposable pieces of meat. IF they produce, they're virtually slaves, who must work under our guidelines and rules and take what we choose to give them. If they don't produce, they're out the door and swiftly forgotten.
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Brandon wrote: View PostSo you don't want the players to have the same freedom to work where they want, and are wanted, as you presumably would want for yourself. And why is that, because they're rich, and so the same pesky freedoms shouldn't apply to them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_basketball_leagues
Not all of those are running but a bunch are. No one is stopping them from going and playing in one of the smaller leagues for regular people pay. If they're going to play for the 30 partner joint venture known as the NBA then they need to learn to live with the organizational rules. Fortunately for the NBPA, they have a hand in writing them. Most employees elsewhere do not.
Brandon wrote: View Post"Their franchise" is an interesting phrase. That implies that the players own the franchise, but I'd say, in most pro sports, especially team sports, the reverse is true.
Brandon wrote: View PostDwight Howard was drafted by the Magic. If he didn't play well and produce, they'd toss him away like a piece of rubbish. But he cannot make the same choice.
Brandon wrote: View PostFans and sports organizations often treat athletes as though they are disposable pieces of meat. IF they produce, they're virtually slaves, who must work under our guidelines and rules and take what we choose to give them. If they don't produce, they're out the door and swiftly forgotten.
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Brandon wrote: View PostFans and sports organizations often treat athletes as though they are disposable pieces of meat. IF they produce, they're virtually slaves, who must work under our guidelines and rules and take what we choose to give them. If they don't produce, they're out the door and swiftly forgotten.
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Apollo wrote: View PostExcept that they get payed millions and live pampered, sheltered lives.
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