Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: Revenue Sharing

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,676
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Revenue Sharing

    Revenue sharing among 'have' and 'have not' teams is a major issue with the current labour situation. I do not think it is something the players should have a say on though.

    What do you think is a fair arrangement for revenue sharing?

  2. #2
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I'm not sure if it should be an even split because it penalizes organizations who perform to the point where they lose the incentive, while stragglers get a free lunch. I think that a portion of T.V. contracts and other revenue streams should go into a pot with everyone getting a fair share. A "fair share" may not necessarily be an even split either. For example, just because Ontario may be getting equalization payments that doesn't mean the wealthy province of Albert should get them. The money needs to go where it's needed most. You're only as strong as your weakest link... I'm not referring that Onartio is the weakest link, just using them for the scenario. There still needs to be an incentive for teams who aren't bringing in good money to get better. I can't see the league's books so I don't know how much needs to be shared to make it work.

    My fear with revenue sharing is what if it's enough to make the Teachers want to keep the Raptors? Bad thought, I know...

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    400
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    It doesn't seem like an issue that should hold up an agreement with the players. It's more of an owners thing though it is important in keeping small market teams competitive. I think what the NFL does is split the agreed to revenues equally with the exception being that the large market teams receive 10% less.

  4. #4
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I agree. It's none of the PA's business. It's in the Owners overall best interest to have better revenue sharing and that's why they're probably moving on it.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure if it should be an even split because it penalizes organizations who perform to the point where they lose the incentive, while stragglers get a free lunch. I think that a portion of T.V. contracts and other revenue streams should go into a pot with everyone getting a fair share. A "fair share" may not necessarily be an even split either. For example, just because Ontario may be getting equalization payments that doesn't mean the wealthy province of Albert should get them. The money needs to go where it's needed most. You're only as strong as your weakest link... I'm not referring that Onartio is the weakest link, just using them for the scenario. There still needs to be an incentive for teams who aren't bringing in good money to get better. I can't see the league's books so I don't know how much needs to be shared to make it work.

    My fear with revenue sharing is what if it's enough to make the Teachers want to keep the Raptors? Bad thought, I know...
    Whether Raptor fans want to believe it or not, Toronto is a `have' team. At least financially. They are a large market team with a broad fan base and are consistently one of the more profitable teams in the league. Where they aren't a `have' team is on the court. So any revenue sharing is only going to affect them negatively, if at all.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,676
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Whether Raptor fans want to believe it or not, Toronto is a `have' team. At least financially. They are a large market team with a broad fan base and are consistently one of the more profitable teams in the league. Where they aren't a `have' team is on the court. So any revenue sharing is only going to affect them negatively, if at all.
    Very good point.

    I thought I read somewhere Toronto was actually 5th in revenues. If anyone can correct it, back that up, or provide a source, feel free.

  7. #7
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Whether Raptor fans want to believe it or not, Toronto is a `have' team. At least financially. They are a large market team with a broad fan base and are consistently one of the more profitable teams in the league. Where they aren't a `have' team is on the court. So any revenue sharing is only going to affect them negatively, if at all.
    It depends on where you want to class them. Are they making money? I would bet yes. Are their profits in line with the big markets? I'd guess not even close. They're probably not in the red but as is they can't sling it out with the big boys until there is a harder barrier for teams wishing to take advantage of spending more than others and there is revenue sharing so that the teams spending the big coin have less to spend and the teams who don't have the big coin to spend have more of it to spread around. I do think the Raptors would benefit from revenue sharing of some sort even if it is not directly.

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Very good point.

    I thought I read somewhere Toronto was actually 5th in revenues. If anyone can correct it, back that up, or provide a source, feel free.
    I'd love to see that article. It would be all the more reason to wish for the Teachers to get the hell out of Dodge.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    5,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Very good point.

    I thought I read somewhere Toronto was actually 5th in revenues. If anyone can correct it, back that up, or provide a source, feel free.
    http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/32/...s-11_land.html

  9. #9
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Something not captured in that article is the currency conversion. The Raptors earn a lot of their money in CAD and pay their biggest expense in USD. Most times that's working against them. Good find though Bendit.

    The Raptors are 6th in operating income. This was probably what Matt was referring to, not the total revenue.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    3,436
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I'd love to see that article. It would be all the more reason to wish for the Teachers to get the hell out of Dodge.
    Found the article here: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/32/...s-11_rank.html

    Toronto is ranked 10th in value, but 6th in operating income.


    The complete list:

    1 New York Knicks 655 12 0 226 64.0
    2 Los Angeles Lakers 643 6 19 214 33.4
    3 Chicago Bulls 511 0 11 169 51.3
    4 Boston Celtics 452 5 40 151 4.2
    5 Houston Rockets 443 -6 16 153 35.9
    6 Dallas Mavericks 438 -2 46 146 -7.8
    7 Miami Heat 425 17 38 124 -5.9
    8 Phoenix Suns 411 -4 45 147 20.4
    9 San Antonio Spurs 404 1 10 135 -4.7
    10 Toronto Raptors 399 3 34 138 25.3
    11 Orlando Magic 385 6 29 108 -23.1
    12 Golden State Warriors 363 15 41 119 14.3
    13 Detroit Pistons 360 -25 0 147 31.8
    14 Portland Trail Blazers 356 5 30 127 10.7
    15 Cleveland Cavaliers 355 -26 56 161 2.6
    16 Utah Jazz 343 0 5 121 -3.9
    17 Philadelphia 76ers 330 -4 23 110 -1.2
    18 Oklahoma City Thunder 329 6 43 118 22.6
    19 Washington Wizards 322 3 40 107 -5.2
    20 Denver Nuggets 316 -2 9 113 -11.7
    21 New Jersey Nets 312 16 224 89 -10.2
    22 Los Angeles Clippers 305 3 0 102 11.0
    23 Atlanta Hawks 295 -4 63 105 -7.3
    24 Sacramento Kings 293 -4 32 103 -9.8
    25 Charlotte Bobcats 281 1 53 98 -20.0
    26 New Orleans Hornets 280 5 69 100 -5.9
    27 Indiana Pacers 269 -4 56 95 -16.9
    28 Memphis Grizzlies 266 4 56 92 -2.6
    29 Minnesota Timberwolves 264 -1 19 95 -6.7
    30 Milwaukee Bucks 258 2 21 92 -2.0

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,676
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    It depends on where you want to class them. Are they making money? I would bet yes. Are their profits in line with the big markets? I'd guess not even close. They're probably not in the red but as is they can't sling it out with the big boys until there is a harder barrier for teams wishing to take advantage of spending more than others and there is revenue sharing so that the teams spending the big coin have less to spend and the teams who don't have the big coin to spend have more of it to spread around. I do think the Raptors would benefit from revenue sharing of some sort even if it is not directly.



    I'd love to see that article. It would be all the more reason to wish for the Teachers to get the hell out of Dodge.
    Going through Forbes evaluations, the Raptors are 10th in revenue and are 6th in operating income.

    Keep in mind Forbes does not have all the numbers and a lot of what they do is based on estimates.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...uable-teams-2/

    OOOPs: I see people already found this.

  12. #12
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    This article also supports the league's claim that over half the league is losing money. I'm counting 17 teams. Surprisingly Detroit is not one of them.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,676
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    This article also supports the league's claim that over half the league is losing money. I'm counting 17 teams. Surprisingly Detroit is not one of them.
    Surprisingly San Antonio, Miami, and Dallas operated at a loss in 2010.

    Once Durant's and Westbrook's extensions kick in, along with Ibaka and Harden, OKC will be operating at a loss as well if revenues do not increase.

    Orlando is also the type of team that even with a punitive luxury tax, the owner has deep pockets and will finance operating at a loss. They currently operate at the biggest lose according to Forbes.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Markham, Ontario
    Posts
    2,830
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Whether Raptor fans want to believe it or not, Toronto is a `have' team. At least financially. They are a large market team with a broad fan base and are consistently one of the more profitable teams in the league. Where they aren't a `have' team is on the court. So any revenue sharing is only going to affect them negatively, if at all.
    I agree. I read somewhere (cant post source) that the Raptors is one of the profitable teams in the NBA. What i cant put my finger on is, HOW??? We've only been to the playoffs twice in 7 years and still the attendance is constant? Me, im an avid follower but i dont have money for tickets.

    What i do know is that a lot, if not most of the tickets are bought by corporations as gifts for their employees or for entertaining clients. my mom works for a big sponsor and they get tickets by the hundreds. same with my aunt who works for a different sponsor.

    I guess it doesnt matter where the money comes from, as long as there's money coming in.

  15. #15
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Well, I'm not surprised about San Antonio. They had one of the highest cap numbers in the league last season. Dallas and Miami are surprising though.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,676
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Well, I'm not surprised about San Antonio. They had one of the highest cap numbers in the league last season. Dallas and Miami are surprising though.
    Forbes data would be for the 2009-2010 season.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,676
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    I agree. I read somewhere (cant post source) that the Raptors is one of the profitable teams in the NBA. What i cant put my finger on is, HOW??? We've only been to the playoffs twice in 7 years and still the attendance is constant? Me, im an avid follower but i dont have money for tickets.

    What i do know is that a lot, if not most of the tickets are bought by corporations as gifts for their employees or for entertaining clients. my mom works for a big sponsor and they get tickets by the hundreds. same with my aunt who works for a different sponsor.

    I guess it doesnt matter where the money comes from, as long as there's money coming in.
    It doesn't hurt that Leafs fans are insane and have to buy Raptors season tickets to get their Leaf season tickets as well.

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    423
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think the players are concerned about revenue sharing because it will help teams get out of the red. If teams can get out of the red then the players don't have to give back as much money.

    That being said, I think if you have to have one team giving another one $$$ every year, then the system is broken and it needs to be fixed, which puts us right back at the lockout.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,676
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    What about some specific ideas of what would be fair for revenue sharing, such as:

    Tax all profitable teams a percentage of profits and divide proportionately among the losers?

    Take 50% of all TV contracts and ticket revenue for all teams and divide equally among all 30 teams? (Since every team is a visitor for 41 games a season, that might work while still allowing teams with lucrative contracts and strong attendance to have a financial advantage).

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    It depends on where you want to class them. Are they making money? I would bet yes. Are their profits in line with the big markets? I'd guess not even close. They're probably not in the red but as is they can't sling it out with the big boys until there is a harder barrier for teams wishing to take advantage of spending more than others and there is revenue sharing so that the teams spending the big coin have less to spend and the teams who don't have the big coin to spend have more of it to spread around. I do think the Raptors would benefit from revenue sharing of some sort even if it is not directly.
    Not sure why you don't think the Raptors wouldn't be one of the more profitable teams. What is it about them that would preclude them from making money? They have larger television market than any other team (Canada, as opposed to just the city), and while LA, New York or CHicago would obviously be a more profitable television market, Toronto wouldn't be far behind. Their attendance is usually in the top half in the league despite being one of the worse teams over the last 15 years. They are based in a market with a lot of corporate headquarters.

    And the dollar is barely a factor, anymore, so that shouldn't really matter.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •