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Thread: Tmac and Vince on OTR - TSN

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Simple Question: VC gets into the hall, you still not going to retire his jersey?

    He's scored over 20,000 career points and every man that's done that previous is in the hall.

    After all this time, I think the basketball reference profile picture says it all

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...cartevi01.html


    Roberto Alomar physically spits on an umpire and gets his jersey retired as well as getting into the hall.

    well, Vince Carter may have virtually spit on this franchise. Get the fuck over it! as all of baseball did for Alomar's sake.

    You's should do for Vince. Now ofcourse we're going to get that bullshit argument that alomar won championships and blah blah blah...

    Ignore that fact and tell me why you wouldn't move on and honur a man who deserves to be honoured.

    Carter quit on the franchise. His actions in leaving the franchise caused considerable harm both on the court and with the perception of the only non-American franchise. He got by on his natural abilities and never put the work in to truly achieve greatness - whether in Toronto or elsewhere.

    I have a big problem with retiring a jersey and ignoring the aforementioned.

    I could do a VC bobble head night or a VC fan appreciation night but not much else.

    I don't think great popularity, dunk contest championships, and three trips to the playoffs with one series win deserves a jersey retirement.

    I am biased because I don't like the guy but I really am trying to be objective in this post.

  2. #42
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Simple Question: VC gets into the hall, you still not going to retire his jersey?

    He's scored over 20,000 career points and every man that's done that previous is in the hall.

    After all this time, I think the basketball reference profile picture says it all

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...cartevi01.html


    Roberto Alomar physically spits on an umpire and gets his jersey retired as well as getting into the hall.

    well, Vince Carter may have virtually spit on this franchise. Get the fuck over it! as all of baseball did for Alomar's sake.

    You's should do for Vince. Now ofcourse we're going to get that bullshit argument that alomar won championships and blah blah blah...

    Ignore that fact and tell me why you wouldn't move on and honur a man who deserves to be honoured.
    Wow. I thought I'd be the only one arguing this side ... Thanks for the backup LBF!! haha

    Completely agree.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Wow. I thought I'd be the only one arguing this side ... Thanks for the backup LBF!! haha

    Completely agree.
    i agree too... as much as i hate VC... if forced to pick one player in raptors history to date, and retire their jersey... there is nobody else

    if not a retired jersey... there should be some kind of memorial for him... he was the first big name raptor

    something like "the Vince Carter Memorial Women's Washroom"

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    There's no obligation to honour VC just because he played for Toronto for 6 seasons and was the most productive player they've had so far. He gave up on Toronto; I wouldn't honour him here, either. If he goes into the Hall on the merit of scoring 20k points, that's fine -- just put him in there as a Net or something.

    The NBA Hall of Fame can do whatever they want. The Toronto Raptors, on the other hand, were undoubtedly wronged by Vince Carter, so the team should feel no need to shower him with roses now. If there are jerseys to hang in the rafters, they should go to players of exemplary character and dedication to the team, not just on-court production (Alvin, Calderon, guys like that -- and I'm not suggesting they SHOULD be honoured, just that they should be honoured long before a guy like VC). That's how I feel, anyway, and I imagine most other long-suffering TO fans feel the same.

    It's not petty. It's a matter of opinion re: what's worthy of honour and what's not.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    i agree too... as much as i hate VC... if forced to pick one player in raptors history to date, and retire their jersey... there is nobody else

    if not a retired jersey... there should be some kind of memorial for him... he was the first big name raptor

    something like "the Vince Carter Memorial Women's Washroom"
    "the Vince Carter Memorial Tampon Dispenser"
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

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    "The Vince Carter Memorial Piss Trough"
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    i agree too... as much as i hate VC... if forced to pick one player in raptors history to date, and retire their jersey... there is nobody else

    if not a retired jersey... there should be some kind of memorial for him... he was the first big name raptor

    something like "the Vince Carter Memorial Women's Washroom"

    If I was forced, I'd agree wholeheartedly, VC would be the Raptor to have his jersey retired. Unfortunately, that is not saying much.


    There is NO Raptor in my opinion who deserves to have his jersey raised to the rafters.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If I was forced, I'd agree wholeheartedly, VC would be the Raptor to have his jersey retired. Unfortunately, that is not saying much.


    There is NO Raptor in my opinion who deserves to have his jersey raised to the rafters.
    But do you agree that Vince deserves some recognition for what he contributed to the sport in Canada? Or no?
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    But do you agree that Vince deserves some recognition for what he contributed to the sport in Canada? Or no?
    I'm a huge basketball fan in general and always have been. I was in high school when the Raptors joined the NBA and all my friends and I were already basketball players and fans. On a personal level, I don't see what he did to basketball because all of my peers were already huge basketball fans. I didn't watch SportsDesk on TSN growing up because I watched CNN/SI to solely watch NBA highlights and catch NHL highlights in the last 5 minutes. I can still remember being at a party in grade 9 watching the dunk contest where JR/Isiah Rider did the between the legs. Long story short, I am probably not the person to ask that question to. One could argue Steve Nash or the Raptors franchise in general has had as much to do with the rise in popularity as VC. Surely VC had an impact but I'm not sure how much can be solely contributed to him.

    Like I said in a previous post, have a VC fan appreciation night or VC bobble head night but no to the jersey in the rafters - and again, all my opinion.

  10. #50
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    I used to watch CNN/SI for the NBA and NFL as well! haha, Stupid hockey highlights... (Did you know Nick Charles died recently Matt?)

    I agree with the fan appreciation night thing as well, though I'm sure he'd just end up getting booed. Give it ten years or so... The 25th Anniversary season might be an ok time.

    And nobody that plays or has played with this organization deserves a jersey retired, nobody. We've had some very good players, no great ones. Making it to game 7 of round 2 is nothing special either. Shoot, I don't think Milwaukee will be retiring Ray Allens jersey anytime soon.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    actually... if we HAD to retire a player.... i'd go with Alvin Robertson... simply on the basis of being the first Raptor to ever make a basket

    Vince gets a memorial urinal cake in the 300 level handicap washroom

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    There's no obligation to honour VC just because he played for Toronto for 6 seasons and was the most productive player they've had so far. He gave up on Toronto; I wouldn't honour him here, either. If he goes into the Hall on the merit of scoring 20k points, that's fine -- just put him in there as a Net or something.

    The NBA Hall of Fame can do whatever they want. The Toronto Raptors, on the other hand, were undoubtedly wronged by Vince Carter, so the team should feel no need to shower him with roses now. If there are jerseys to hang in the rafters, they should go to players of exemplary character and dedication to the team, not just on-court production (Alvin, Calderon, guys like that -- and I'm not suggesting they SHOULD be honoured, just that they should be honoured long before a guy like VC). That's how I feel, anyway, and I imagine most other long-suffering TO fans feel the same.

    It's not petty. It's a matter of opinion re: what's worthy of honour and what's not.
    thats exactly how i feel. But right now no Raptor should have his jersey retired. Until Demar wins us a couple of championships anyway. Just kidding

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    I used to watch CNN/SI for the NBA and NFL as well! haha, Stupid hockey highlights... (Did you know Nick Charles died recently Matt?)

    I agree with the fan appreciation night thing as well, though I'm sure he'd just end up getting booed. Give it ten years or so... The 25th Anniversary season might be an ok time.

    And nobody that plays or has played with this organization deserves a jersey retired, nobody. We've had some very good players, no great ones. Making it to game 7 of round 2 is nothing special either. Shoot, I don't think Milwaukee will be retiring Ray Allens jersey anytime soon.
    I was not aware. That is sad. He and Hickman were awesome.

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Wow. I thought I'd be the only one arguing this side ... Thanks for the backup LBF!! haha

    Completely agree.
    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    i agree too... as much as i hate VC... if forced to pick one player in raptors history to date, and retire their jersey... there is nobody else

    if not a retired jersey... there should be some kind of memorial for him... he was the first big name raptor

    something like "the Vince Carter Memorial Women's Washroom"
    Fine we won't retire his Jersey. we'll make a "level of excellence" and put him in that.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Fine we won't retire his Jersey. we'll make a "level of excellence" and put him in that.
    This is a great idea.

    Like the Blue Jays. I love it.

    The Level of Excellence is the highest award bestowed by the Toronto Blue Jays Baseball Club, recognizing tremendous individual achievement. The names and, in some cases, uniform numbers of each of the honourees are displayed on large banners hanging in Rogers Centre's 500 Level.
    Source
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    What could have been.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Whaat? Raptor rafters for WC?

    This guy quit on our/his team. He has won NOTHING...even with other stars on his teams. He winced and cringed and bailed on contact. Most of all ....he coasted on his enormous talent and ended not being all he could be. He said so himself.

    He is a bit of a laughing pinata within the league. And this is a player a Raptor fan would bestow special honours on? And we complain we get no respect as a franchise?

    imo, any retired or hoisted number has to belong to a most special player, dedicated to the team whilst here and above all universally admired by at least 90-95% of the fanbase. WC does not meet this test.

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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Whaat? Raptor rafters for WC?

    This guy quit on our/his team. He has won NOTHING...even with other stars on his teams. He winced and cringed and bailed on contact. Most of all ....he coasted on his enormous talent and ended not being all he could be. He said so himself.

    He is a bit of a laughing pinata within the league. And this is a player a Raptor fan would bestow special honours on? And we complain we get no respect as a franchise?

    imo, any retired or hoisted number has to belong to a most special player, dedicated to the team whilst here and above all universally admired by at least 90-95% of the fanbase. WC does not meet this test.

    He took us to a level where this franchise hadn't been before and still hasn't gotten back to after. He also put the Raptors on the map for the most part.
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Sat Nov 5th, 2011 at 04:15 PM.

  19. #59
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    I dont like the idea of vince's jersey in our rafters.
    nor do i like the idea of vince...
    he created more drama then a highschool full of this guy

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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Whaat? Raptor rafters for WC?

    This guy quit on our/his team. He has won NOTHING...even with other stars on his teams. He winced and cringed and bailed on contact. Most of all ....he coasted on his enormous talent and ended not being all he could be. He said so himself.

    He is a bit of a laughing pinata within the league. And this is a player a Raptor fan would bestow special honours on? And we complain we get no respect as a franchise?

    imo, any retired or hoisted number has to belong to a most special player, dedicated to the team whilst here and above all universally admired by at least 90-95% of the fanbase. WC does not meet this test.
    I agree.

    I'd go so far as to say that no player who has ever been a Raptor deserves to have their Jersey hung less than Vince. (unless it was a mock #15 Jersey with 'Douche' on the back. I'd be all for that)

    In the grand scheme of things he wasn't here very long, and he accomplished very little for the team.

    I don't think as of yet anyone deserves it, but if I had a gun to my head and had to pick it would be one of:

    -Alvin Williams
    -Mo Pete
    -Jose Calderon
    -JYD

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