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Thread: Free Agency 2011

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/sp...ref=basketball

    Beck at NYTimes.com reporting few teams likely to avail of amnesty clause.
    I am surprised somewhat because this provision had to be a league driven clause and hence had a healthy consensus amongst the owners/gms. That said, Brendan Haywood might not be a bad pickup if amnestied by Dallas. I assume he had a good relationship with Casey,

  2. #42
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    I think is Haywood gets amnesty'ed, in all likelihood, he would probably end up with a better team than ours - maybe a team closer to a playoff berth.

  3. #43
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The Heat would make a lot of sense.

  4. #44
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    Third string PG: Boykins, TJ Ford???, Antonio Daniels??, Mike Wilks
    Back up SG: Dionte Christmas, Lester Hudson, Reggie Williams (love this guy)
    Backup SF: Ime Udoka, Shawne Williams, Aleksandar Pavlovic, (Trade James Johnson + 2nd rounder for Al Thornton)
    Third String C: Jamal Magloire, Francisco Elson, Jarron Collins, Dwayne Jones

  5. #45
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I would because he's not working out physics problems on a chalk board. He's playing basketball and a lot of what he does is on defense. You're selling his athletic abilities short in my opinion. I think you're understating the impact that has on his game. IQ is important but he's not just getting it done with brain power.
    And you're selling his ability to adapt short in my opionion. It may be best to continue this discussion in 3 or 4 years time when we will be able to predict the present based upon the past!

    Woot?

  6. #46
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The Heat would make a lot of sense.
    I am confused.

    Matt posted
    Under the about-to-be-rubber-stamped program, teams such as the Heat and Lakers that are operating well above the salary cap would therefore be precluded from bidding on such players, able to move only on amnesty players who receive no partial bids in the waiver process. For the Heat, it would be a blow in the bid to add depth around LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.
    Any definite world as to its veracity?

  7. #47
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    A good question.

    What is the likelihood of a high IQ player who understands his role and does not depend on his athletism to remain effective as a 34 through 37 years old?

    I would not bet against it.

    Having said that, I doubt Toronto is a desirable destination for Battier at this stage of his career.
    Wing defense relies a lot on athleticism. Look how quickly Bruce Bowen's career ended when he started to decline.
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  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    There is a gut feeling I have that says Battier will still be a really good player even 4 years from now. But, I understand everyone's concerns over him. He's the type of player I want on the Raptors... the type of leader he is, and role model he can be for our young guys. Most playoff contenders won't be able to afford him due to the new CBA rules. I think he'd only get the full mid-level with non playoff teams though. If its salary he wants, then he's not going to a contender. If its a championship that he wants then all bets are off.

  9. #49
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    Could the Raptors possibly cut the whole roster, not to mention MLSE, Colangelo et al. with the amnesty clause? On-court performance wouldn't be impacted, in the short term.

  10. #50
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Wing defense relies a lot on athleticism. Look how quickly Bruce Bowen's career ended when he started to decline.
    Bruce Bowens career ended at the age of 38 (well he was just shy of turning 38 in his last year). He finished that year with a 106 defense rating and had just come off 5 straight years of being on the all NBA defensive team. (which his defense ratings were, in chronological order, 97, 102, 101, 103, 105)

    To put that in perspective to other wings Battiers was 107 last year, Demar 114, Lebron James 102, Carmelo Anthony 111, Tony Allen 101, Stephen Jackson 109, Kobe Bryant 105, Paul Pierce 101, Vince Carter 111, Aaron Afflalo 111,

    So his numbers definetely dropped... but not exactly drastically. He fell from (arguably) the best, to an average to above average range at the end of his career.

  11. #51
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    Bruce Bowens career ended at the age of 38 (well he was just shy of turning 38 in his last year). He finished that year with a 106 defense rating and had just come off 5 straight years of being on the all NBA defensive team. (which his defense ratings were, in chronological order, 97, 102, 101, 103, 105)

    To put that in perspective to other wings Battiers was 107 last year, Demar 114, Lebron James 102, Carmelo Anthony 111, Tony Allen 101, Stephen Jackson 109, Kobe Bryant 105, Paul Pierce 101, Vince Carter 111, Aaron Afflalo 111,

    So his numbers definetely dropped... but not exactly drastically. He fell from (arguably) the best, to an average to above average range at the end of his career.
    He also had the advantage of playing on the Spurs, so his defensive numbers were no doubt helped by that. In his last season with the Spurs he played less than 20 mpg. In two years he went from playing 30 mpg to being out of the league. I'd say that is a quick end to a career.
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  12. #52
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    And you're selling his ability to adapt short in my opionion. It may be best to continue this discussion in 3 or 4 years time when we will be able to predict the present based upon the past!

    Woot?
    We're all entitled to our own opinion but I do feel that history tends to lean towards rewarding big contracts to mid-30 somethings is a big mistake.

  13. #53
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    He also had the advantage of playing on the Spurs, so his defensive numbers were no doubt helped by that. In his last season with the Spurs he played less than 20 mpg. In two years he went from playing 30 mpg to being out of the league. I'd say that is a quick end to a career.
    Sure his career ended quick. One year you are playing, the next you aren't. That doesn't mean he would have been ineffective if he stuck around for a few more. (doesn't mean he would have been effective either ofcourse).

    That said, being 'smart' when one ends their career is probably a rarity for alot of athletes. Bowen did it like alot of players should, but seem not to.

    And a players defense is unquestionably helped by his team, which makes DRTG a bit of a 'harder' stat to work with (not to mention who a player covers... ie. a guy like Bowen almost always got the tougher check). Hedo for instance had a DRTG of 110 with Phoenix last year and 103 with Orlando. I just used it to give a rough idea of where he stood compared to most.


    But this whole idea of losing athleticism and no longer being an effective defender I just don't think is true. There is ofcourse a point where its inevitable (especially with injuries/wear and tear etc). But a guy like Battier could easily finish out his career similar to how Bowen did and be extremely useful for another 3-5 years.

    (again not by any means saying that the Raps should sign Battier)

  14. #54
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    There was a list posted by ESPN on possible amnesty cuts and there was one name that jumped out to me:

    Likely amnesty cuts: Baron Davis, Cavs; Gilbert Arenas, Magic; Brandon Roy, Blazers; Travis Outlaw, Nets; DeSagana Diop, Bobcats

    Other candidates: Rashard Lewis, Wizards; Shawn Marion, Mavs; Andres Nocioni, Sixers; Al Harrington, Nuggets; Marvin Williams, Hawks; Jose Calderon, Raptors; Charlie Villanueva, Pistons; Richard Jefferson, Spurs; Mike Miller, Heat; Richard Hamilton, Pistons; Beno Udrih, Bucks; Drew Gooden, Bucks; Mehmet Okur, Jazz; Francisco Garcia, Kings; Josh Childress, Suns; Nate Robinson, Thunder; Jermaine O'Neal, Celtics; Brendan Haywood, Mavs; Dahntay Jones, Pacers; Ryan Gomes, Clippers; Johan Petro, Nets; Charlie Bell, Warriors; Renaldo Balkman, Knicks

    Could there be a re-union of sorts in Toronto?

  15. #55
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I think Mickael Pietrus could provide much of the benefits Battier would (defence, leadership, outside shooting, etc.), but at a lower price...and he's younger (29 yrs).

    Then again, he's an expiring contract. So unless he orchestrates an extend-and-trade, we'd be renting him for 66 games.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Mon Nov 28th, 2011 at 01:07 PM.

  16. #56
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I don't see how Marion can be let go. He was crucial to their playoff run.

  17. #57
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I do feel that history tends to lean towards rewarding big contracts to mid-30 somethings is a big mistake.
    Yes, history tends to lean this way. But if you look at a different sport, say baseball for example, there were studies made about how particular abilities improve and decrease with age. My question is if Battier's abilities are those of the kind whuch degrade slowly in the mid thirties.

    I don't know the answer but as I don't view a $22-24 millions for 5 years to be a huge or crippling contract (Amir makes far more), I would be willing to take that risk.

  18. #58
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Yes, history tends to lean this way. But if you look at a different sport, say baseball for example, there were studies made about how particular abilities improve and decrease with age. My question is if Battier's abilities are those of the kind whuch degrade slowly in the mid thirties.

    I don't know the answer but as I don't view a $22-24 millions for 5 years to be a huge or crippling contract (Amir makes far more), I would be willing to take that risk.
    This isn't baseball. These guys take a lot of contact throughout their careers, their knees take a lot of abuse and the league houses some of the most freakish athletes in the world and put others against them one on one. The biggest thing Roger Clemens ever had to wrestle, besides congress, was a beer in the clubhouse after the game.

    A five year deal is impossible so what's the point in continuing this?

  19. #59
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    Just read this from Haberstroh over at espn.com (insider), in his 'best free agent fits' piece:

    7. Rodney Stuckey (R) -- Toronto Raptors
    If you go strictly by points per game, Stuckey endured a down season in 2010-11, but a closer look at his campaign actually reveals a dramatic step forward. By trimming the fat in his shot selection, he posted easily the best true shooting percentage of his career and became a better distributor as a floor general.

    If the Pistons decide to hand over the keys to draftee Brandon Knight, they could cut ties with Stuckey and let him walk. It would save the bloated franchise some cash, but it's not a good bet that Knight will ever match Stuckey's 18.4 player efficiency rating in 2010-11. If Tyson Chandler returns to Dallas, the Raptors should focus their energy on nabbing a point guard for the long haul. Remember, at 25, Stuckey is just entering his prime.
    Stuckey's QO is at 3.9 million rounded up, so you're probably looking at around 5ish or more to pry him away from Detroit. I'm thinking probably not worth it since you've got a free year for Bayless to prove himself and there's no shortage of quality point guards in the NBA right now so going after one down the line probably won't be that tough, but it's an interesting idea. Discuss!

  20. #60
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Stuckey's QO is at 3.9 million rounded up, so you're probably looking at around 5ish or more to pry him away from Detroit. I'm thinking probably not worth it since you've got a free year for Bayless to prove himself and there's no shortage of quality point guards in the NBA right now so going after one down the line probably won't be that tough, but it's an interesting idea. Discuss!
    Never been a fan of Stuckey's game. In today's NBA, there are far too many shooting guards who happen to be short, and are then miscast as point guards. IMO, Stuckey is one of them (then again, so is Brandon Knight).

    Plus, the dream of drafting Kabongo remains in tact without Stuckey in the picture
    Last edited by Nilanka; Mon Nov 28th, 2011 at 01:37 PM.

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