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Thread: Free Agency 2011

  1. #101
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    J. Michael Falgoust: Nate Robinson will be bought out by #Thunder so he can become free agent. They tried to do this before the lockout. Working on it now #nba Twitter
    There goes my hope for Daequan Cook I think.

  2. #102
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    test

  3. #103
    Raptors Republic Rookie Paradigm Shift's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    No need.

    You know Bryan scours these forums :P
    I just hope he's the only GM who does scour these forums.

    Maybe, I am just getting frustrated (feeling sorry for us Canadians), but why couldn't any other team offer the same kind of deal.... and thus, why would Chandler want to sign with the Raptors?
    Last edited by Paradigm Shift; Wed Nov 30th, 2011 at 10:18 PM.

  4. #104
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Chandler maintains that staying in Dallas has always been his first choice, but he expressed disappointment that the communication between the sides was minimal from the end of the NBA Finals in mid-June and the June 30 deadline for extensions. On Wednesday, when teams and agents were allowed to commence free-agent negotiations, NBA front office sources listed New Jersey, Golden State, Houston and Toronto as the teams chasing Chandler hardest.
    I guess BC isn't reading these forums after all.
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  5. #105
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    He'll either end up in Jersey or Houston.

  6. #106
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    If he was going to spend the money on someone he could do a lot worse than great defensive center who just won a championship anchoring the defense under the direction of the Raptors' new head coach. JV might not be able to start right away and when he is it would be a luxury to have two outstanding centers holding down the paint for all 48 minutes every game. That's not to say I'm rooting for this to happen but if it does I won't be heart broken.

  7. #107
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    In a surprise development on the first day that NBA teams and agents could start talking about new contracts, Tyson Chandler came away convinced that his time with the Dallas Mavericks is coming to an end.

    "I really think I'm going to be on a new team come training camp," Chandler told ESPN.com in a telephone interview Wednesday night. "I'm really taking a hard look at all of my options, trying to see what best suits me."
    LINK

  8. #108
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    If he was going to spend the money on someone he could do a lot worse than great defensive center who just won a championship anchoring the defense under the direction of the Raptors' new head coach. JV might not be able to start right away and when he is it would be a luxury to have two outstanding centers holding down the paint for all 48 minutes every game. That's not to say I'm rooting for this to happen but if it does I won't be heart broken.
    I've written before that I simply don't believe Colangelo and this rebuilding talk. He didn't want to even do it last year but circumstances left him with no other choice. If these rumours are true, it's the same approach he tried and failed with last summer. I hope I am wrong but I simply have no confidence in this front office to do the right thing long term cause they simply don't think that way.

  9. #109
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I've written before that I simply don't believe Colangelo and this rebuilding talk. He didn't want to even do it last year but circumstances left him with no other choice. If these rumours are true, it's the same approach he tried and failed with last summer. I hope I am wrong but I simply have no confidence in this front office to do the right thing long term cause they simply don't think that way.
    I agree that Colangelo was pretty much forced into the rebuilding plan, but I really do hope he doesn't try and hedge his bets. I'd be really disappointed if he flip-flops. I'd completely lose my confidence in him if he did that.
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  10. #110
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I've written before that I simply don't believe Colangelo and this rebuilding talk. He didn't want to even do it last year but circumstances left him with no other choice. If these rumours are true, it's the same approach he tried and failed with last summer. I hope I am wrong but I simply have no confidence in this front office to do the right thing long term cause they simply don't think that way.
    Can you explain your though process in more details?

    I don't understand how signing a free-agent who would provide solid help for the next 4 years affects the rebuilding process other than we are likely to have a better record for the next three years and thus pick lower than if we sucked. One can also argue that acquiring Tyson Chandler would allow the Raptors to trade one of their current bigs to acquire a young wing or draft pick.

    I am not a believer at all that the only way to be successful is to draft a franchise player. People seem very quick to forget Cleveland and Miami drafted possibly the best two franchise players of the last decade. Cleveland lost their franchise player and it looks like there is a very strong probability Orlando will lose theirs within one year. Cleveland sucked and it is likely to suck again for the next few years and I shudder to think what Orlando would end up if they lost Dwight Howard to free-agency.

    Not a pretty sight.

  11. #111
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Can you explain your though process in more details?

    I don't understand how signing a free-agent who would provide solid help for the next 4 years affects the rebuilding process other than we are likely to have a better record for the next three years and thus pick lower than if we sucked. One can also argue that acquiring Tyson Chandler would allow the Raptors to trade one of their current bigs to acquire a young wing or draft pick.

    I am not a believer at all that the only way to be successful is to draft a franchise player. People seem very quick to forget Cleveland and Miami drafted possibly the best two franchise players of the last decade. Cleveland lost their franchise player and it looks like there is a very strong probability Orlando will lose theirs within one year. Cleveland sucked and it is likely to suck again for the next few years and I shudder to think what Orlando would end up if they lost Dwight Howard to free-agency.

    Not a pretty sight.
    I think the main problem we have is that drafting a franchise player is the TOP priority, so doing anything that would prevent that is not a good plan.

    As for Cleveland and Orlando, if you're suggesting that Toronto not mismanage the team, bringing in overpriced veterans in order to make an immediate impact, while drafting incredibly poorly, I couldn't agree more. Otherwise, I don't see the comparison.
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  12. #112
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Can you explain your though process in more details?

    I don't understand how signing a free-agent who would provide solid help for the next 4 years affects the rebuilding process other than we are likely to have a better record for the next three years and thus pick lower than if we sucked. One can also argue that acquiring Tyson Chandler would allow the Raptors to trade one of their current bigs to acquire a young wing or draft pick.
    You can't win in the NBA without a franchise player. This has been true for 50 years. Tyson Chandler is not a franchise player. He's a very, very good player that makes you better but he isn't going to make you a contender by himself. That's what the Raptors need. Without that, they are, at best, also-rans.

    This draft presents an opportunity to draft a franchise changer. Add to that a guy like Valanciunas and an improved Derozan and you start to have something. Until that time, anything that threatens the ability to draft a franchise changer should be a non-starter. Anyone who tells you that they can win in the NBA without a franchise guy is selling snakeoil.

    Again, we just went through this. In 2006 Colangelo could have done nothing and waited for another top-5 pick in 2007 with the hope of landing a superstar to play alongside Bosh. Instead, he traded for Ford, signed Parker, Garbajosa and... what... we made the playoffs! Yeah! Except that the team wasn't good enough to actually win anything and with: no cap room, no high draft picks, no young players, and no other tradeable asssets, the team couldn't be improved.

    I'm not saying that drafting high in 2012 assures anything. I'm also not saying the Raptors shouldn't look at FA to improve but signing a big-name guy like Chandler to a long term deal for big dollars makes no sense for a 20-win team without any legitimate, elite talent. It's premature.

    EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I like Chandler. But, but... signing a guy like him in FA is something you do when you already have a solid core, built around a superstar. A signing like this is for a contender, not the worst team in the league.
    Last edited by slaw; Thu Dec 1st, 2011 at 02:42 PM.

  13. #113
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    You can't win in the NBA without a franchise player. This has been true for 50 years. Tyson Chandler is not a franchise player. He's a very, very good player that makes you better but he isn't going to make you a contender by himself. That's what the Raptors need. Without that, they are, at best, also-rans.

    This draft presents an opportunity to draft a franchise changer. Add to that a guy like Valanciunas and an improved Derozan and you start to have something. Until that time, anything that threatens the ability to draft a franchise changer should be a non-starter. Anyone who tells you that they can win in the NBA without a franchise guy is selling snakeoil.

    Again, we just went through this. In 2006 Colangelo could have done nothing and waited for another top-5 pick in 2007 with the hope of landing a superstar to play alongside Bosh. Instead, he traded for Ford, signed Parker, Garbajosa and... what... we made the playoffs! Yeah! Except that the team wasn't good enough to actually win anything and with: no cap room, no high draft picks, no young players, and no other tradeable asssets, the team couldn't be improved.

    I'm not saying that drafting high in 2012 assures anything. I'm also not saying the Raptors shouldn't look at FA to improve but signing a big-name guy like Chandler to a long term deal for big dollars makes no sense for a 20-win team without any legitimate, elite talent. It's premature.

    EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I like Chandler. But, but... signing a guy like him in FA is something you do when you already have a solid core, built around a superstar. A signing like this is for a contender, not the worst team in the league.
    +100000000

  14. #114
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    You can't win in the NBA without a franchise player. This has been true for 50 years. Tyson Chandler is not a franchise player. He's a very, very good player that makes you better but he isn't going to make you a contender by himself. That's what the Raptors need. Without that, they are, at best, also-rans.

    This draft presents an opportunity to draft a franchise changer. Add to that a guy like Valanciunas and an improved Derozan and you start to have something. Until that time, anything that threatens the ability to draft a franchise changer should be a non-starter. Anyone who tells you that they can win in the NBA without a franchise guy is selling snakeoil.

    Again, we just went through this. In 2006 Colangelo could have done nothing and waited for another top-5 pick in 2007 with the hope of landing a superstar to play alongside Bosh. Instead, he traded for Ford, signed Parker, Garbajosa and... what... we made the playoffs! Yeah! Except that the team wasn't good enough to actually win anything and with: no cap room, no high draft picks, no young players, and no other tradeable asssets, the team couldn't be improved.

    I'm not saying that drafting high in 2012 assures anything. I'm also not saying the Raptors shouldn't look at FA to improve but signing a big-name guy like Chandler to a long term deal for big dollars makes no sense for a 20-win team without any legitimate, elite talent. It's premature.

    EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I like Chandler. But, but... signing a guy like him in FA is something you do when you already have a solid core, built around a superstar. A signing like this is for a contender, not the worst team in the league.
    The Pistons won without a franchise player in 2004 versus two franchise players. An exception to the rule, absolutely, but we don't deal in absolutes.

    One could argue that if the Raptors are going to be the worst team in the NBA anyways, the signing of Chandler will do little to stop that.

    Being the worst is no guarantee of lottery positioning. Cleveland were the worst team in the league last year and picked 4th. The Clippers were the 8th worst and picked 1st (Cleveland). The Raptors were 3rd worst and picked 5th. The Nets were the sixth worst and picked third (Utah). The Wolves were 2nd worst and picked 2nd.

    I disagree with the current state of the Raptors. Even hypothetically signing Chandler there would still be cap room, young players, and other tradeable assets (future draft picks) to help the team improve.

    The Raptors currently do not have any legitimate, elite talent but what if, and these are two big what ifs, 1) DeRozan takes another step forward like last season and 2) Bargnani puts it all together with a slimmed physique, a defensive C next to him, and a coach holding him accountable? Will it happen? Unlikely. Could it happen? Yes. All scenarios are a gamble and nothing is guaranteed.

    The good thing about signing Chandler is he will always have trade value should things not work out for the very reasons you ended with: a contender will always be looking for a player like him.

  15. #115
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The Pistons won without a franchise player in 2004 versus two franchise players. An exception to the rule, absolutely, but we don't deal in absolutes.

    One could argue that if the Raptors are going to be the worst team in the NBA anyways, the signing of Chandler will do little to stop that.

    Being the worst is no guarantee of lottery positioning. Cleveland were the worst team in the league last year and picked 4th. The Clippers were the 8th worst and picked 1st (Cleveland). The Raptors were 3rd worst and picked 5th. The Nets were the sixth worst and picked third (Utah). The Wolves were 2nd worst and picked 2nd.

    I disagree with the current state of the Raptors. Even hypothetically signing Chandler there would still be cap room, young players, and other tradeable assets (future draft picks) to help the team improve.

    The Raptors currently do not have any legitimate, elite talent but what if, and these are two big what ifs, 1) DeRozan takes another step forward like last season and 2) Bargnani puts it all together with a slimmed physique, a defensive C next to him, and a coach holding him accountable? Will it happen? Unlikely. Could it happen? Yes. All scenarios are a gamble and nothing is guaranteed.

    The good thing about signing Chandler is he will always have trade value should things not work out for the very reasons you ended with: a contender will always be looking for a player like him.
    I've explained in the past how I thought Detroit winning was more of a fluke than anything. Either way, I don't think trying to copy an exception hoping you get the same result it the smartest thing.

    My worry with Chandler is that he will make an impact, maybe adding 5-10 wins, which does absolutely nothing except take away ping pong balls in the lottery.

    And while DeRozan could take another step forward and Bargnani could put it al together, if it doesn't happen, and the Raptors have signed with Chandler, then the likelihood of getting a franchise player is much smaller. Without Chandler, there is still the same possibility of them improving, but without the gamble. And the Raptors will have even more cap space next summer.
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  16. #116
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Cleveland were the worst team in the league last year and picked 4th.
    Actually it was Minnesota who was the worst team last year. They were very inept at the end of the season while Cleveland won a bunch of games to steal second.

  17. #117
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Actually it was Minnesota who was the worst team last year. They were very inept at the end of the season while Cleveland won a bunch of games to steal second.
    Right you are.

  18. #118
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I've explained in the past how I thought Detroit winning was more of a fluke than anything. Either way, I don't think trying to copy an exception hoping you get the same result it the smartest thing.

    My worry with Chandler is that he will make an impact, maybe adding 5-10 wins, which does absolutely nothing except take away ping pong balls in the lottery.

    And while DeRozan could take another step forward and Bargnani could put it al together, if it doesn't happen, and the Raptors have signed with Chandler, then the likelihood of getting a franchise player is much smaller. Without Chandler, there is still the same possibility of them improving, but without the gamble. And the Raptors will have even more cap space next summer.
    No one said anything about trying to copy. I gave an example.

    8 of the top 10 draft picks ranked by draft express are PF's. Say Chandler adds 10 wins and now they are up to 32 wins (82 game schedule talk here), so now they are picking around 8th with a possibility to get a guy like Quincy Miller. Miller has franchise talent in my opinion.

    But what if the gamble paid off? They tack on 10 wins next year, draft a wing, add another piece or two (Wilson Chandler? Steve Nash?), developing the rookies in a competitive environment to have Nash and Tyson Chandler go off in to the sunset without missing a beat.


    We are talking possibilities here with nothing being guaranteed for any one possibility.

  19. #119
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I've written before that I simply don't believe Colangelo and this rebuilding talk. He didn't want to even do it last year but circumstances left him with no other choice. If these rumours are true, it's the same approach he tried and failed with last summer. I hope I am wrong but I simply have no confidence in this front office to do the right thing long term cause they simply don't think that way.
    One would think that Casey is the man leading the charge to get Chandler. It's well documented that Colengelo likes to get multiple view points from his inner circle.

  20. #120
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    We are talking possibilities here with nothing being guaranteed for any one possibility.
    It's true that every scenario is technically possible, but some scenarios are more probable than others. It's management's responsibility to make decisions that play the percentages well, minimize risk, and provide flexibility based on realistic outcomes, while fully acknowledging that nothing is guaranteed.

    Losing more games earns us more ping pong balls. It doesn't guarantee a top 3 pick, but it statistically improves our chances. Coming off a 22-win season, where little was done to improve the roster, it seems wisest to remain status quo for one more year, when significant talent can be added to this team via the draft and free agency in 2012.

    On the other hand, hoping that Bargnani can all-of-a-sudden, turn it around, is completely going against the percentages. He's shown us no reason to think he's simply a few altered variables (i.e. moving to PF, and a new coach) away from becoming a complete player. It's very likely we'll be here in 5 months wondering why we didn't trade him when we had the chance, before he was proven to be incapable of playing defence even under a defense-first coach.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Thu Dec 1st, 2011 at 03:55 PM.

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