Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 81

Thread: Grange Advocating Tanking/Raptors not rushing rebuild

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,029
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    What some folks need to realize is that tanking does not equal intentional losing. Instead, what we're proposing, like Tim mentioned, is emphasizing playing the kids more minutes, in an effort to speed up their development so that by the time we're ready to compete, so are they.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    402
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    What if they don't declare or if the ping-pong balls are not kind to the Raptors and they end up with the 6th pick? Do you tank again to get a shot at a franchise player in the class of 2013?

    That sounds fun...
    You keep tanking until you get a player that you can build a franchise around. Tanking, in my view, means not spending money on fungible or complementary players (like most of the Raps current roster), keeping the payroll down and the roster young. If you don't have a franchise player who's a top 10 or 15 guy in the league, you don't really have anything.

  3. #23
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,330
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    IMO, this is a no brainer - the Raps simply aren't good enough to be able to tank, they just won't win.

    I agree with the consensus:

    1. let the young players play, to gain experience, confidence, personal development and team chemistry

    2. no short-term band-aid solutions (ie: Chandler) to appease the band-wagon portion of the fan base, who are likely turned off by the whole lockout... stay true to the rebuilding process that the hardcore fans have bought into and believe in

    3. think strategically about building a team that will be a perennial contender to at least get beyond the first round of playoffs for years to come (hopefully starting in 2013), rather than trying to catch lightning in a bottle and finishing 8-10 in the conference, which means first round playoff fodder at best, with minimal percentage chance at top-5 draft pick

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,648
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    What some folks need to realize is that tanking does not equal intentional losing. Instead, what we're proposing, like Tim mentioned, is emphasizing playing the kids more minutes, in an effort to speed up their development so that by the time we're ready to compete, so are they.
    Exactly.

    IF BC traded DD to Chicago for Keith Bogans - that would be tanking.

    Playing a young core of players minutes in an effort to speed their development and evaluate their contribution moving forward is not tanking. It may not be winning but it certainly is not tanking.

    If you look at a number of teams who have had franchise players only to lose them (Toronto in the past, it appears NOH and ORL now, CLE), the team had a superstar talent but struggled to fill out the roster around them with quality second and third options as well as role/bench players. Toronto currently has the supporting cast nearly in place. What they are lacking is the star talent. The only way they are going to get that is through the draft.

    Chicago is a prime example. Before they drafted Rose they had Noah, Deng, Gordon, Hinrich, and Nocioni in place. They have come a long way from a 33 win team in 2007-2008 to where they are now starting four years later. Not all their pieces stayed to get to where they are now which is another advantage of having valuable pieces to continue shaping the roster around your franchise player.

    In case my point is not clear, a team needs to have quality players to surround a franchise player. Toronto is lacking the franchise player but they certainly have some quality (and young) players for when they do land him.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,648
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Raptors not rushing rebuild

    Having just heard the word "rebuild" said to him, Dwane Casey, the new Toronto Raptors coach, wanted to make one thing clear.

    "I've got a sense of urgency," Casey said earlier this month. "I'm going to be a patient teacher. But patience isn't one of my strong points as far as where we want to get in terms of wins."

    Alas, the roster he is inheriting does not offer much in the way of wins. And it is unlikely the league's new collective bargaining agreement, assuming ratification, will do too much to expedite turning the Raptors from a lottery-bound team into a contender.

    The new CBA should rein in the spending of some of the league's richer teams, making it harder for those teams to spend into the luxury tax year after year. That should, in theory, enhance the chances for every team to be a contender. But even if it works out like that, that process will take a few years to take hold.

    And the Raptors? They were a 22-win team last year. Sure, there is the hope that Ed Davis, DeMar DeRozan and Amir Johnson will improve, that Andrea Bargnani will go from atrocious to passable on defence and Casey will coach them upward. This, however, is a team that Vegas has pegged as 1501 longshot to win the NBA championship. The Raptors retain the same structure, and president and general manager Bryan Colangelo is not in it for the quick fix.

    "Let's just say to go out and spend money [immediately] just to spend money would be probably swimming against the current idea of what the plan is all about," Colangelo said.

    "The plan is to acquire the right pieces, the correct pieces to keep adding to this young nucleus that we have or to put championship pieces together."

    Translation: Colangelo is going to be patient and not go for the immediate-dividends move he has made in the past.

    Hunter told reporters he plans to take the same approach. "I'm a players' coach, but the players will know when I'm mad at them - If you continuously make mistakes, there will be repercussions."

    The play of Ovechkin, who has only one goal in the last eight games, has been the focus of talk that Boudreau had lost his team's ear. It was 12 games ago, on Nov. 1, that Boudreau famously benched his star scorer in the waning seconds of regulation time with Washington trailing Anaheim 4-3. Nicklas Backstrom scored the tying goal with 42 seconds left. When Ovechkin saw the ice again in overtime, he assisted on Backstrom's winner at 2: 18.

    ? Toronto has 10 players signed for the 2011-12 season - and in most cases beyond - leaving the teams with about US$7-million to fill the final five roster spots.

    Jonas Valanciunas, the team's first-round pick this summer, will not come to the team until next year

    Two others, restricted free agent Sonny Weems and unrestricted free agent Joey Dorsey are locked into overseas contracts that do not allow them to return to the NBA this year.

    Reggie Evans, Julian Wright and Alexis Ajinca are also unrestricted free agents, and except for maybe Evans, are as good as gone.

    ? The Raptors will have two big needs - centre and small forward - when free agency opens Dec. 9 (the same day training camps begin).

    Casey, while preaching defence, will be desperate to get Bargnani away from directing traffic. Tyson Chandler would be a perfect free-agent candidate, especially considering he and Casey formed a relationship in Dallas.

    Alas, money and wins will ensure Chandler is somewhere else, likely back in Dallas.

    But cheaper options such as Joel Przybilla, Francisco Elson or Jason Collins could make sense.

    At small forward, the Raptors return only the inexperienced James Johnson and Linas Kleiza, who is coming off microfracture knee surgery.

    The likes of Andrei Kirilenko, DeShawn Stevenson and the highly quotable Shane Battier are on the market.

    ? The biggest wild card might be the amnesty clause in the new CBA.

    It allows each team to waive one player who signed a deal under the old CBA before the season starts. Each team can use this just once during the tenure of the new deal. That team would still have to pay the player, but the money would not count against the salary cap or luxury tax.

    For example, using the amnesty on Jose Calderon would suddenly give the Raptors almost US$17-million of room under the salary cap.

    Calderon, Bargnani, Barbosa, Kleiza and, arguably, Amir Johnson all have contracts that outpace their production.

    But since the Raptors are more than one piece away from contending, it might make more sense to see how those players perform and make the move next year when the free-agent class is deeper.

    Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/R...#ixzz1f6wEseoM
    I have no issue with not rushing the rebuild.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,100
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote raptors2012 wrote: View Post
    Everyone that's against the Raptors tanking are fans of other teams and just trying to mess with us!

    Keep in mind:
    1. the 2 teams worse than us last year just got upgraded by at least 2 young up-and-coming players (Clev: Irving/Thompson Minny: Williams/Rubio) - we won't get Jonas til next year
    2. every other team that we're competing for the bottom spot got better.

    Conclusion:
    We are primed to tank!
    Question: Do you want to live in mediocrity forever?

    This year should be just focusing on developing individual skills and running sets. Think of each game as a practise session. I'll be in the seats wearing my "EVERYDAY FOR DRE!" t-shirt (Andre that is).

    Think about it...
    We pick up Drummond and trade two of our PF's (prob Bargs & Ed) + rid ourselves of Bayless (he's no use to us if he's not a real PG). What we try to get is someone like Gay (Mem can't afford to keep everybody) + a mid draft pick in 2012 to pick up a guy like Myck. Next years FA, we pick up a vet big to help develop the young bigs (jonas/dre) and some shooters.
    [This is meant as an example]

    Or we can pick up free agents like Tyson this year and stay a mediocre team forever?... cause we ain't winning anything with the big 3 in miami, big 3 in boston and big 3 coming to NY - didn't even mention Chi

    EVERYDAY FOR DRE!
    I'm not sure where this issue is riht now but if the NBA blocks players from entering the draft until they reach 20 years of age, you might have to ease up on the Drummond t-shirts as he's a freshman. A talented freshman no doubt, but a player that would fall under these proposed rules.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    793
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I know there's a portion of the fan base that is "morally" opposed to do anything other than try and win as many games as possible.
    That's not what we are saying. We are saying to try to win to what you have already.

    I would certainly not trade a Raptors propspect for a veteran just to increase our win totals this year.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    , but that's not always the smartest thing to do. Right now, the stars seem to be aligning for the Raptors to make a big impact in the 2012 offseason. They aren't expected to compete, they have a new coach that is going to be given some leeway by the fans, it's a young team and it's a shortened season. If they don't get a top three pick, they'll still have options. They can trade up, or try and pick up a franchise player in a trade or free agent signing.
    A team is a business and the image you project to your paying customers and sponsors matter. trying to sell the "We Suck Deliberately" image to commercial sponsors is more than, say, "We're a hard working yong team on the rise". Although some fans adopt a Winning the Championship is the Only Thing that Matters attitude, it is by no way representative of the position adopted by the owners of the Raptors.

    Trying to trade up in 2012? If the the top 3, 4, or 5 have so much more potential than anyone else in the draft, what do you propose the Raptors send to a rebuilding team in order to pick at a higher slot? DD, ED, JV? So we delay the rebuilding process further by trading a work in progress and a pick for someone with a potentially higher ceiling.

    Making a splash in the 2012 free agent market? Which superstar would want to come to a perenial losing team which tanks on purpose. Seriously, we already seen that players will chose a destination of their liking if they receive comparable offers from multiple teams. The Raptors have absolutely no history of making a splash in the free agency market and two seasons spent at the bottom of the league is very unlikley to trigger a change how superstars view Toronto.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    To me, the only thing worse than tanking (or not trying focusing on winning, but developing) is perennial mediocrity that has been pretty much the highlight of the Raptor franchise.
    I have cheered for the Leafs for the past fourty five years and I expect they will be my favorite NHL team until my lasst breadth despite me having no expectation they will win a cup before I die.

    I've attended almost all their games in Washington for the past 20 years (I've also attended the Raptors games the past two years) and a few Friday and Saturday games in Philadelphia. Despite their less than stellar record, I am happy when they put forth the effort because it is good entertainment. Entertainment, because when I pay hundred bucks or more to attend a game, I expect to be entertained.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Markham, Ontario
    Posts
    2,830
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    IMO, and again, i reiterate, I M O, if BC does not pull out all his resources to get the best players in FA to get this team more wins, to me, that is tanking. "Developing young players" is just an acceptable way of defining tanking. Not intentionally losing and not intentionally improving is pretty much the same. Its like running in a marathon, you know you wont be able to win by speed alone, you need good shoes, good sleep, diet and hydration. so if you just run without these things, you can give it your best shot, but you know, as a sane person, that you have no chance of winning the marathon.

    And i hate tanking. I think its demoralizing, unethical and just plain unacceptable. But unfortunately, the NBA is a business and losing is what can make you a winner. I dont like it, but its the only path that the Raptors can go on to be a good or even great team long term.

    What i would like to see is stability. Build a core and hang on to that core. stop replacing pieces. establish the core, get the players you need either via draft, trade or FA and get that core to jive. then keep adding complimentary pieces or role players.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    793
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    What some folks need to realize is that tanking does not equal intentional losing.
    The Oxford dictionary defines tanking as "to lose a game, especially deliberately" and gives an example: "She was accused of tanking the match."

    http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionar...tionary/tank_2

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    what we're proposing, like Tim mentioned, is emphasizing playing the kids more minutes, in an effort to speed up their development so that by the time we're ready to compete, so are they.
    Some are suggestings trading players for future draft picks to increase our chance of losing this year.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,648
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    IMO, and again, i reiterate, I M O, if BC does not pull out all his resources to get the best players in FA to get this team more wins, to me, that is tanking. "Developing young players" is just an acceptable way of defining tanking. Not intentionally losing and not intentionally improving is pretty much the same. Its like running in a marathon, you know you wont be able to win by speed alone, you need good shoes, good sleep, diet and hydration. so if you just run without these things, you can give it your best shot, but you know, as a sane person, that you have no chance of winning the marathon.

    And i hate tanking. I think its demoralizing, unethical and just plain unacceptable. But unfortunately, the NBA is a business and losing is what can make you a winner. I dont like it, but its the only path that the Raptors can go on to be a good or even great team long term.

    What i would like to see is stability. Build a core and hang on to that core. stop replacing pieces. establish the core, get the players you need either via draft, trade or FA and get that core to jive. then keep adding complimentary pieces or role players.
    Correct me if I am wrong but this view is on a season by season basis. What if we stretch our view over a 2-3 season period? Would we not be tanking 2012-13 season by throwing money at a free agency class that has been universally deemed to be weaker than usual? Would we not be tanking 2012-13 and beyond by not giving our young players an opportunity to prove themselves (successful or not) for older players with a limited 'shelf-life' remaining?

    Usually successful rebuilds take 3-5 seasons. The Raptors just finished year 1. My opinion is people need to ask themselves what type of team they want to cheer for: one that wins 40 games and is bounced in the first round or one that can contend for a Eastern Conference Championships/League Championships. If the former is the goal, then I can see going out and spending available cap space to overpay peaked/established veterans to come to Toronto. If the latter is the goal, then there will likely be 1-2 more seasons of frustration ahead.

    Personally I'd rather keep working to reach the top than settle for a continued stay on the mediocrity treadmill never going anywhere. But that is just me.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Markham, Ontario
    Posts
    2,830
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong but this view is on a season by season basis. What if we stretch our view over a 2-3 season period? Would we not be tanking 2012-13 season by throwing money at a free agency class that has been universally deemed to be weaker than usual? Would we not be tanking 2012-13 and beyond by not giving our young players an opportunity to prove themselves (successful or not) for older players with a limited 'shelf-life' remaining?

    Usually successful rebuilds take 3-5 seasons. The Raptors just finished year 1. My opinion is people need to ask themselves what type of team they want to cheer for: one that wins 40 games and is bounced in the first round or one that can contend for a Eastern Conference Championships/League Championships. If the former is the goal, then I can see going out and spending available cap space to overpay peaked/established veterans to come to Toronto. If the latter is the goal, then there will likely be 1-2 more seasons of frustration ahead.

    Personally I'd rather keep working to reach the top than settle for a continued stay on the mediocrity treadmill never going anywhere. But that is just me.
    I think i kinda went around too much in my post. What i was trying to say was although i dont like "not doing all that it takes to win NOW", im in favor of it to actually win in the long run.

    In the statement you bolded, i was trying to imply that "not doing everything in your power to improve the team" and "tanking" is pretty much the same in my book. but to lose now, is to win in the long run.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    793
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    You keep tanking until you get a player that you can build a franchise around. Tanking, in my view, means not spending money on fungible or complementary players (like most of the Raps current roster), keeping the payroll down and the roster young. If you don't have a franchise player who's a top 10 or 15 guy in the league, you don't really have anything.
    So in other words, the Raptors have yet to start the rebuilding process as they don't have anyone on their roster who is a top 10 or 15 guy in the league.

    How long can you sell this strategy to paying consumers and sponsors? Corporate sponsors play with the cards they are dealt and accept you do not have to wait until all the stars are in perfect alignment before you can deliver a good product.

    I am so certain many, many corporate sponsors would love the "We'll suck until we are in position to draft a franchise player from the Raptors" sales pitch. That's just the kind of product they want to associate their brand with.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    686
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    tanking is a dirty word to every competitive spirit.... except ofcourse to the competitive spirits who are also strategists.

    Tanking IS intentionally losing. But does intentionally losing include not trying your hardest to win or is it actively trying to 'throw' games? What if not trying your hardest to win, or intentionally losing, in the short term leads to winning in the long term?

    Kind of like killing one person in order to save 10....just a lot less messy.

    When teams don't waste opportunities when they come around, they don't have to worry about these things. The teams that screw up need to worry about it time and time again. Then again, all those teams probably did it atleast once (*cough San Antonio cough*) to get to where they were....

    Play the players who will help the team long term, go out and play games hard while trying to win on any given night (atleast until the end of the season). If that leads to wins then so be it. There is definetely something positive that comes from that. But don't try to 'just make the playoffs', atleast not until one feels the team can compete in the playoffs. No sense wasting another decade. Long term planning is the key to long term success.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,648
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    tanking is a dirty word to every competitive spirit.... except ofcourse to the competitive spirits who are also strategists.

    Tanking IS intentionally losing. But does intentionally losing include not trying your hardest to win or is it actively trying to 'throw' games? What if not trying your hardest to win, or intentionally losing, in the short term leads to winning in the long term?

    Kind of like killing one person in order to save 10....just a lot less messy.

    When teams don't waste opportunities when they come around, they don't have to worry about these things. The teams that screw up need to worry about it time and time again. Then again, all those teams probably did it atleast once (*cough San Antonio cough*) to get to where they were....

    Play the players who will help the team long term, go out and play games hard while trying to win on any given night (atleast until the end of the season). If that leads to wins then so be it. There is definetely something positive that comes from that. But don't try to 'just make the playoffs', atleast not until one feels the team can compete in the playoffs. No sense wasting another decade. Long term planning is the key to long term success.
    Maybe a different way of looking at things that sums up the Raptors current state of affairs:

    The front office can tank with an eye to the future and doing what is necessary to build a contender.

    The coaches and players should never tank and never give less than 100% to win every single game possible.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Markham, Ontario
    Posts
    2,830
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    So in other words, the Raptors have yet to start the rebuilding process as they don't have anyone on their roster who is a top 10 or 15 guy in the league.

    How long can you sell this strategy to paying consumers and sponsors? Corporate sponsors play with the cards they are dealt and accept you do not have to wait until all the stars are in perfect alignment before you can deliver a good product.

    I am so certain many, many corporate sponsors would love the "We'll suck until we are in position to draft a franchise player from the Raptors" sales pitch. That's just the kind of product they want to associate their brand with.
    Just wondering, seems like everybody is leaning towards getting a potential franchise player in the 2012 draft. Wouldnt it make more sense to actually acquire a proven one through FA? Rose, Howard, E. Gordon will be FAs in 2012, shouldnt BC throw everything in his power to land one of these guys? Historically the Raps have been unable to land a superstar FA, but should that really deter them from attempting to land one? The odds maybe slim but shouldnt this be more of a priority rather than waiting on the draft?

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,648
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Just wondering, seems like everybody is leaning towards getting a potential franchise player in the 2012 draft. Wouldnt it make more sense to actually acquire a proven one through FA? Rose, Howard, E. Gordon will be FAs in 2012, shouldnt BC throw everything in his power to land one of these guys? Historically the Raps have been unable to land a superstar FA, but should that really deter them from attempting to land one? The odds maybe slim but shouldnt this be more of a priority rather than waiting on the draft?
    Absolutely. BC has talked about the financial flexibility next summer. A top draft pick this year to go with the guys already on the roster, JV, and another quality veteran free agent or two would be a great selling point to any perspective free agent.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    That's not what we are saying. We are saying to try to win to what you have already.

    I would certainly not trade a Raptors propspect for a veteran just to increase our win totals this year.
    No one is suggesting INTENTIONALLY losing games. I just don't believe we should add anyone who will make any kind of an impact in the win column. Focus on development of players. Sometimes that means not playing the veterans in crunch time, which would be the norm if you cared more about winning.

    Look at when Brendan Malone was coaching. While he actually did a fantastic job of getting the most out of very little talent, he cared more about winning than developing players. Of course, with most coaches being judged on their win/loss record, that's not surprising.

    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    A team is a business and the image you project to your paying customers and sponsors matter. trying to sell the "We Suck Deliberately" image to commercial sponsors is more than, say, "We're a hard working yong team on the rise". Although some fans adopt a Winning the Championship is the Only Thing that Matters attitude, it is by no way representative of the position adopted by the owners of the Raptors.

    Trying to trade up in 2012? If the the top 3, 4, or 5 have so much more potential than anyone else in the draft, what do you propose the Raptors send to a rebuilding team in order to pick at a higher slot? DD, ED, JV? So we delay the rebuilding process further by trading a work in progress and a pick for someone with a potentially higher ceiling.

    Making a splash in the 2012 free agent market? Which superstar would want to come to a perenial losing team which tanks on purpose. Seriously, we already seen that players will chose a destination of their liking if they receive comparable offers from multiple teams. The Raptors have absolutely no history of making a splash in the free agency market and two seasons spent at the bottom of the league is very unlikley to trigger a change how superstars view Toronto.
    Again, you're getting caught up on the the whole "tanking" thing. I'm not suggesting trading away the good players for nothing, as Matt mentioned. And I"m not suggesting losing on purpose. But there's a big difference between trying to squeeze out every single win you can than trying to focus more on development of players.

    Are you going to play Alabi 20 mpg, like I'd like to see, if you're trying to win every game? If you're trying to win every game, you're not going to let players play through their mistakes.

    I don't know what would be involved in trading up. That's why I listed it as an option. I wouldn't trade Valanciunas (because he's such an unknown), but if it means drafting a franchise player over a borderline All-Star, I'd pretty much consider everyone else.

    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    I have cheered for the Leafs for the past fourty five years and I expect they will be my favorite NHL team until my lasst breadth despite me having no expectation they will win a cup before I die.

    I've attended almost all their games in Washington for the past 20 years (I've also attended the Raptors games the past two years) and a few Friday and Saturday games in Philadelphia. Despite their less than stellar record, I am happy when they put forth the effort because it is good entertainment. Entertainment, because when I pay hundred bucks or more to attend a game, I expect to be entertained.
    You're apparently happy with mediocrity. I'm not. I'd like to see a Raptor team actually contend for once. If I had a GM who said he just wanted to put a competitive team on the floor and that's it, he'd be gone quicker than you can say Rob Babcock.

    Because I want the Raptors to win it all, I'm willing to sacrifice a little to do that.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Just wondering, seems like everybody is leaning towards getting a potential franchise player in the 2012 draft. Wouldnt it make more sense to actually acquire a proven one through FA? Rose, Howard, E. Gordon will be FAs in 2012, shouldnt BC throw everything in his power to land one of these guys? Historically the Raps have been unable to land a superstar FA, but should that really deter them from attempting to land one? The odds maybe slim but shouldnt this be more of a priority rather than waiting on the draft?
    If the Raptors can get a franchise player on the free agent market, great! The chance of that happening, though, is slim, so I wouldn't bank on it. The easiest way for a team not in L.A., Miami, New York, Boston or Chicago, to get a franchise player is to draft him. No harm in trying, though.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    449
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Just wondering, seems like everybody is leaning towards getting a potential franchise player in the 2012 draft. Wouldnt it make more sense to actually acquire a proven one through FA? Rose, Howard, E. Gordon will be FAs in 2012, shouldnt BC throw everything in his power to land one of these guys? Historically the Raps have been unable to land a superstar FA, but should that really deter them from attempting to land one? The odds maybe slim but shouldnt this be more of a priority rather than waiting on the draft?
    If the Raps had any shot in hell at landing a legitimate franchise-changing player then I'd say maybe. But it ain't gonna happen.

    Rose isn't going to leave a contender in his hometown for Toronto. Makes zero sense.

    Howard has already stated he'd prefer to go to LA. Whether the Clips or Lakers, that's gonna happen.

    Chris Paul is one of the league's ultimate competitors and wants to win immediately. He won't be coming to Toronto.

    Eric Gordon is likely going to be bait in whoever the Clips go after, but regardless why would he leave LA where he plays alongside Blake Griffin on an up-and-coming team?

    Etc, etc, etc.

    It's not that Toronto isn't a good free agent destination in terms of the city itself, I don't really believe that. It's just that NBA superstars have a lot of choice when deciding to change teams, and factors like a team's potential and existing players seem to be the biggest considerations right now. Then comes market, weather, all that other stuff (assuming teams are offering roughly the same amount of money).

    Everything changes if the Raps land a Barnes or a Davis in this year's draft, but even then it'll take a couple of years for the team to establish itself and really begin to make the kind of impact that will make FAs consider the team as a destination. Until then, there's no more reason to choose Toronto as there is Charlotte or Minnesota or Sacramento or Cleveland.

    To me the best chance they have to land a top-notch FA is going to be trying to sign away a restricted FA like Westbrook, whose team might not be able to match a max offer. Obviously there's no guarantee he'll even sign an offer sheet, but that might be the only hope in the short-term.

    And as an aside, assuming the Raps do manage to land a franchise guy in the draft this year, I'd be just as happy to see BC use the cap space to sign vets and established players to short term deals. That'd give you some stability on the roster, vets for the young guys to learn from and practice with, and retain long-term flexibility for extending the players you want to keep.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    793
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Just wondering, seems like everybody is leaning towards getting a potential franchise player in the 2012 draft. Wouldnt it make more sense to actually acquire a proven one through FA? Rose, Howard, E. Gordon will be FAs in 2012, shouldnt BC throw everything in his power to land one of these guys? Historically the Raps have been unable to land a superstar FA, but should that really deter them from attempting to land one? The odds maybe slim but shouldnt this be more of a priority rather than waiting on the draft?
    In my opinion, the odds of the Raptors landing a franchise player in 2012 via the draft or free agency are too slim to be worth including in any sort of meaningful plan.

    Furthermore, waiting just another year for a savior is not a message I would want to hear if I was a core player on the current roster. Such a message is not telling me (complimentary) help will be provided but rather, a savior will be found to save my sorry ass. Not what I call an inspiring message.

    I would rather the Raptors plan ahead on how to progress further with the current core group.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •