Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Chisholm: What to do about the C position? Forget Tyson Chandler (212)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I feel this post I made elsewhere is applicable to this thread and potential FA candidates in general:

    Apollo wrote: View Post
    If he picks Toronto then there are positives. That's why I'm not totally broken up by it...
    • He picked Toronto even though they didn't have the cap space to overpay. This tells you a lot about the respect Casey brings to the team and how well Colangelo has done with rebuilding the team since Bosh left town. It means the league perception of the Raptors is on a positive rise.
    • They get an excellent player who can live up to his contract and offer enough to contribute to something meaningful on a second contract down the road.
    • The Raptors are still going to stink and will still be in the lottery. Their chances won't be as high to get a top three pick but that doesn't mean they won't get a top three pick. They could opt to do nothing now, get screwed in the lotto and end up with less talent this time next year. It's why it's called a lottery. It's one big gamble. Look at how the Bulls won Rose.
    • If they hit the cap now, signing JV and the next 1st rounder in the summer puts them well over. Spending over cap leads to good things when it's on the right players. If they don't sign a player now to move them to the cap then once they sign JV and the first rounder in the summer that will put them near or over cap. It's kind of like a wasted opportunity to not spend extra money on a really good player.

      I'm not saying they should sign Chandler, I'm just giving you reasons as to how it could work out in a positive scenario. Most are only considering the negative... That being less balls in the bin. That guarantees nothing more than more balls in the bin.
    "Tyson Chandler looking for a new team", http://raptorsrepublic.com/forum

    Comment


    • Chandler must have told his agent he's settled on a team or two

      Word is Golden State is going after him HARD
      @sweatpantsjer

      Comment


      • DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
        while the chances may be reduced, i cant count with both my hands the number of scrubs that were drafted in the top five aswell..
        alot of teams have done very well for themselves drafting late in the first round.... it all comes down to scouting..

        Kobe Bryant waas drafted 13th sooo it can happen
        That's not the point. Hell, you can draft All-Stars in the second round, but the chances are incredibly slim.

        There are two simple and indisputable facts: The first is that this draft is considered to be very good with several potential elite players. The second is that if you're not drafting in the top five, then chances are you aren't going to be able to draft an elite player.

        It's not about guarantees. It's about the odds and tried and true methods.

        You want the best chance to win a Championship? Get an elite player. History overwhelmingly backs up this argument. It's shocking how consistently it backs up this argument, in fact.

        As I said before, on the current roster, I don't see anyone with the potential to be an elite player. Some good ones and possibly even an All-Star or two, but not an elite player (potential All-NBA 1st team). With elite players, you can generally see the potential even after one season, especially if they've got a year of college under their belt.

        How do you get an elite player? You can sign one, trade for one or draft one.

        In the last 30 years, only the Lakers, Orlando, Miami and New York have been able to sign elite free agents. I'd probably add Boston, Chicago and Dallas to the list of teams that are attractive enough to sign an elite free agent. Toronto is not on that list.

        You can trade for an elite player, but it's very difficult. The timing has to be right, where he's either going to leave his current team or he's on a bad team and he's not young enough to go through a rebuilding process. If he's going to leave his current team, then you have to be an attractive enough destination for him to agree to the trade, otherwise you're using all you assets to rent a player. For a veteran whose team is rebuilding, he needs to be able to go to a team that needs just him to be able to contend. That team needs to have young talent to be able to create a trade package, but enough veteran talent to surround the elite player with good enough players to make them a contender. Otherwise you're just in the same position as the team trading him away.

        So, Toronto doesn't fit into the category of a team able to attractive an elite free agent. They also aren't the type of team that an elite player would agree to be traded to if he were going to become a free agent. And they simply don't have the assets to be able to trade for an elite player and still have enough talent leftover to be able to be a contender.

        So the Raptors only logical choice is to draft one. While there have been plenty of years when it was clear that an elite player was unlikely to be found, thankfully the upcoming draft has several players with the potential to become one. Personally, I see four or five players with elite potential and another half dozen with All-Star potential. Unfortunately for the Raptors, an All-Star is simply not going to cut it. They NEED an an elite player if they want the best chance at winning a Championship.

        Again, playing the odds, for the Raptors to draft an elite player, they pretty much need to draft in the top five. What's the best way to get a top five lottery pick? Well, finishing near the bottom will give you the best odds to do that. The higher you finish, the lower your odds of getting a top five pick are.

        All this seems pretty straight forward to me.

        All this talk about developing the players in a winning atmosphere and getting the assets when you can are all well and good, but it all boils down to four things. You need and elite player if you want to win a Championship, the Raptors don't have one, the best way to get one is to draft one, and the best place to find one is in the top five.
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
        Follow me on Twitter.

        Comment


        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
          Everybody put down the pitchforks and torches!

          Via Tim Chisholm twitter:
          What?? That would mean that the media was printing unverified rumours. That CAN'T be true.

          On a side note, I am EXTREMELY relieved to hear that.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
          Follow me on Twitter.

          Comment


          • Dan Wolken: Heard from a source the Pacers could be making a huge play for Marc Gasol. Could put Griz in tough spot. Twitter

            If the Raptors do not sign Chandler or Gasol, I hope they plan on trading Bargnani much sooner than later.

            Comment


            • 1. If pacers sign Gasol what happens with Hibbert?

              2. I really hope we don't even offer Nene a contract.
              @sweatpantsjer

              Comment


              • 3. Also, if pacers get Gasol there goes any shot at Rudy

                4. Unless we trade Bargs (and filler) for him!

                5. I like numbers
                @sweatpantsjer

                Comment


                • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  If the Raptors do not sign Chandler or Gasol, I hope they plan on trading Bargnani much sooner than later.
                  I think they should funnel the whole offense through him as in get him 20 shots per game and then pull the trigger on a deal once his stats have been padded long enough.


                  ceez wrote: View Post
                  1. If pacers sign Gasol what happens with Hibbert?
                  Couldn't they play together at times? I'm more curious with what happens to either Granger or George.

                  Comment


                  • The Raptors have drafted 2 franchise players: Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady. The Raptors were not able to retain the services of these two fine gentlemen.

                    So maybe it's time the Raptors explore a different startegy to attract a franchise player for the long-term?

                    Let's take a look back in time and recall the 1997 and 1998 drafts.

                    1997 NBA Draft
                    1 Tim Duncan
                    2 Keith Van Horn
                    3 Chauncey Billups
                    4 Antonio Daniels
                    5 Tony Battie
                    ...
                    9 Tracy McGrady
                    42 Stephen Jackson

                    1998 NBA Draft
                    1 Michael Olowokandi
                    2 Mike Bibby
                    3 Raef LaFrentz
                    4 Antawn Jamison
                    5 Vince Carter
                    ...
                    9 Dirk Nowitzki
                    10 Paul Pierce
                    32 Rashard Lewis

                    Drafting a franchise player in the top 5 picks is not as easy as a proposition as some suggest. Drafting a franchise player is a roll of the dice and only in very rare cases - such as Duncan, Shaq, Howard, Olajuwon, Rose - are the odds quite high but even when there are very high, thngs can do wrong (Oden).

                    It's not clear at this time if any one of the potential 2012 draft entries is significantly more talented than any other prospects. All the top prospects have question marks attached to their scouting report.

                    Is it really worth tanking this season to increase the odds of drafting a franchise player by a tiny fraction?

                    Not from my perspective.

                    Comment


                    • I think the big risk (risk..?) is if Bargs continues to blow then he'll have zero trade value. If you're going to trade him, do it now.
                      @sweatpantsjer

                      Comment


                      • Apollo wrote: View Post
                        I think they should funnel the whole offense through him as in get him 20 shots per game and then pull the trigger on a deal once his stats have been padded long enough.



                        Couldn't they play together at times? I'm more curious with what happens to either Granger or George.
                        I don't know. Everyone knows about his offense. To get real value he has to *insert broken record* improve d and reb.

                        Comment


                        • It has to improve a little under Casey. Even if it doesn't, a lot of the other starters will improve under Casey. If Bayless starts along with DeRozan, JJ and Davis then that's a pretty coachable starting squad. If they all improve they'll make Bargnani look better on defense. They need to make sure he gets lots of good looks if they want to get top value on the market. They can control that part, they may not be able to control the big man skills.

                          Comment


                          • ceez wrote: View Post
                            I think the big risk (risk..?) is if Bargs continues to blow then he'll have zero trade value. If you're going to trade him, do it now.
                            The Raptors could always use the amnesty on Bargnani if what you said ever became true.

                            Not that I believe he will ever have 0 trade value under his current contract unless he suffers he major injury from which he can never fully recover.

                            It is interesting to note that Bargnani increased his offensive production while taking on the challenge of being the primary option on a weak offensive team. But that should not even be consideration when evaluating him, because.... because ... because that could be a point that is interpreted in his favor, that's why!

                            There you go.

                            Comment


                            • Hugmenot wrote: View Post
                              The Raptors have drafted 2 franchise players: Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady. The Raptors were not able to retain the services of these two fine gentlemen.

                              So maybe it's time the Raptors explore a different startegy to attract a franchise player for the long-term?

                              Let's take a look back in time and recall the 1997 and 1998 drafts.

                              1997 NBA Draft
                              1 Tim Duncan
                              2 Keith Van Horn
                              3 Chauncey Billups
                              4 Antonio Daniels
                              5 Tony Battie
                              ...
                              9 Tracy McGrady
                              42 Stephen Jackson

                              1998 NBA Draft
                              1 Michael Olowokandi
                              2 Mike Bibby
                              3 Raef LaFrentz
                              4 Antawn Jamison
                              5 Vince Carter
                              ...
                              9 Dirk Nowitzki
                              10 Paul Pierce
                              32 Rashard Lewis

                              Drafting a franchise player in the top 5 picks is not as easy as a proposition as some suggest. Drafting a franchise player is a roll of the dice and only in very rare cases - such as Duncan, Shaq, Howard, Olajuwon, Rose - are the odds quite high but even when there are very high, thngs can do wrong (Oden).

                              It's not clear at this time if any one of the potential 2012 draft entries is significantly more talented than any other prospects. All the top prospects have question marks attached to their scouting report.

                              Is it really worth tanking this season to increase the odds of drafting a franchise player by a tiny fraction?

                              Not from my perspective.
                              I'm not sure I see your point. McGrady left for various reasons (perceived lack of respect by the coach and organization, not wanting to play in the shadow of Vince, etc) and Vince left after 6 years because he had lost faith in the organization (and rightly so, with Babcock in charge- so had I). Even if you count Bosh in that, he stayed for 7 years and left only after the franchise failed to build a good enough team to get even to the playoffs.

                              Somehow, out of this you believe the Raptors shouldn't try and draft franchise players anymore? Wouldn't it simply make more sense to try and actually manage the team better when you have one? Players generally don't leave a team that they have faith in. No one wants to stay on a crappy team for too long, especially if they have a choice.

                              And I don't think ANYONE suggesting it was EASY to draft a franchise player even in the top five. Don't know where you got that from. But it's easiER to draft one than trade for one or sign one, especially if you aren't one of the few attractive destinations in the league.

                              So what are you suggesting? I've at least come up with a plan (as have others) that involves something other than figuring it out as you go. You've stated outright that you just want an entertaining team, so you'd rather not do anything to distract from that, even if it means sacrificing the ability to win a Championship. No offense, but I don't know if you're the best person to be giving advice on how to build a team.

                              Also, why did you including Stephen Jackson and Rashard Lewis in your list above? They were borderline All-Stars, even during their peak. And the 1997 draft was considered a poor draft and a HUGE dropoff after Duncan. Not every draft is the same. This upcoming draft is considered one of the best in years and with several potential franchise players. Last year, for instance, was not considered a very deep or talented draft, so it wouldn't have made sense to "tank" last year.

                              As for not "really worth tanking this season to increase the odds of drafting a franchise player by a tiny fraction". What exactly tiny fraction are you talking about?

                              In the last 30 years, the number one pick went on to become an All NBA player 19 times. And John Wall and Blake Griffin could end up being added to the list. I've already talked about how few non-top 5 drafted players end up making the first and second All-NBA teams. And the lower you finish, the better your odds of getting a top three pick is. I seriously don't understand how you can reasonably say that it only increases your odds "a tiny fraction". It's simply not true.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                              Follow me on Twitter.

                              Comment


                              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                                It has to improve a little under Casey. Even if it doesn't, a lot of the other starters will improve under Casey. If Bayless starts along with DeRozan, JJ and Davis then that's a pretty coachable starting squad. If they all improve they'll make Bargnani look better on defense. They need to make sure he gets lots of good looks if they want to get top value on the market. They can control that part, they may not be able to control the big man skills.
                                Bargnani's defense doesn't look bad because of his teammates. It looks bad because when you watch him it's obvious he's a poor defensive player. And the only player in the starting lineup you mentioned that I have confidence in becoming an above average defender is Ed Davis. Bayless has worse defensive stats than Calderon, DeRozan should improve, but I wouldn't expect sudden miracles. James Johnson certainly has potential, but has shown a penchant for making as many bad defensive plays as good ones. I'm hopeful with all of them, but this is not going to be a good defensive team this year, even if they improve quite a bit. And unless Bargnani is surrounded by elite defenders, he's going to get exposed constantly.
                                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                                Follow me on Twitter.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X