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Thread: Colangelo Needs to Start Securing Bench Players

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Default Colangelo Needs to Start Securing Bench Players

    If you go with the premise that Demar has a place on this team in the future, JV is the future center, Ed Davis is a in the picture, the draft pick next spring is good enough to be a starter, if not a franchise player, and Bargs will also be here for a couple of years, then you have a gap at either the PG or SF, depending which spot isn't filled by the draft. And you need bench players.

    I believe BC should be focusing on bench players that you would want on a team aiming for the championship. Next year he will still have the option of using the amnesty clause on someone. The team brain trust will have had a shortened season to evaluate all existing talent and a chance to see a little more of JV's development overseas. And the juicy crop of top tier free agents this summer may attract a lot of teams attention, maybe enough so that BC can use some of his cap space to corral numbers 6,7,and 8 off the bench for this team in the future. Maybe those spots will be filled by existing talent, but I think there will be a chance to secure top level bench strength for 2012/2013 and on if they make the right offers to a couple of guys this free agent period. No need to make a big splash, that can happen next year, or even the year after.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Dec 3rd, 2011 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Fixed it for you, Puffer.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I would agree.

    Kleiza (when healthy) and Amir fit this role now as could Jose on a much more reasonable contract. Barbosa would also be an option. I think Alabi was acquired to groom as a back up C - not a starter.

    Guys I would like to see possibly added with this idea in mind would be:
    Daequan Cook, Martell Webster, and Wilson Chandler (probably too expensive for this thinking).


    The Raptors certainly have trade pieces to make the types of moves you are proposing with a ton of cap space next year to get the one starter and a draft pick this year to hopefully get the other.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Paradigm Shift's Avatar
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    My first problem is with the premise, that this crop represents the core of a team that can seriously challenge in the playoffs, but I understand that is the hypothetical, you have introduced. Given that, I wonder if you can bring in FA today, to what was one of the worst rosters in the NBA this past year, and have them swallow the expectation that their purpose is to backup the current crop and/or rookies coming in over the next few years.

    I am wondering about the psychology. Do players like "Daequan Cook, Martell Webster, and Wilson Chandler" go into free agency thinking the best they can find is a backup role on what was a horrible team?

    While I love the fantasy premise things are all in place for the first 5-7 roster spots to compete, even if it is true, I wonder if it is too early to build that bench of the future. I think the Raps need to see how this core develops and focus on players to help them with that development and those peices might be different from what will be needed on the bench in a few years.

    As I write this I think of Tyson Chandler. He might not be the best aquisition for the Raptors (depending on price) but in the short term someone like him could help the development of the team until it is ready to compete. Who knows, in a few years if JV has established himself as a budding star, Chandler could be ready to go to the bench. But I don't think he would be interested (nor would his brother Wilson) to come to TO knowing that was the plan.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    ive been a supporter of signing chandler for some time now but after hearing today he wants a max deal worth 20mill a season FORGET THAT!

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    ive been a supporter of signing chandler for some time now but after hearing today he wants a max deal worth 20mill a season FORGET THAT!
    He deserves Hedo Turkoglu money, not more than 10-12 million MAX if you ask me. He's not a true all star he is a GREAT role player though. Wonder what kind of money Dalembert, and Jordan want. I'm not that hot on Gasol and Nene, I want a Center that is pure defense and shot blocking, If we can pick up either Dalembert, Jordan, for 5-7 million I think we go for it. Even a guy like Magloire for 3 million is not a bad option.

    If none of those pan out we got the 2nd tier: Kwame Brown, Joel Pryzbila, and Jason Collins all decent options that will be CHEAP. No matter what I see the raptors suring up their defense at the Center position this year.

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    I think it's way too early to start focusing on who your long term bench players are going to be. This is a team that won 22 games last year and will be hard pressed to improve on that this year. We hope we know who 3 of the starters will be, but without knowing who the other two are, or even who the best player will be, I don't understand how you can know what type of bench players you need. You need bench players that compliment the starters, and especially the best player, but how do you compliment open roster spots?
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    I should have been more clear in where my thinking was.

    Most people agree that it would be counter productive to get top rank free agents this year, assuming you could, since that would result in not giving the young guys enough run, and also the Raptors might improve themselves out of good draft position.

    By focusing his efforts on acquiring solid second tier guys, BC might be able to beat out other teams who are all crowding around Nene, Chandler and Gasol, and holding off on other deals because they need to keep their cap space. BC might have first pick of those second tier guys who are available. If he can get them, at what might be good prices this year, and sign them to 3-4 year contracts, he would have them available as the Raps existing pieces mature and improve, and they could always be used as trading chips in future deals, when it is time to pull the trigger on major moves.

    Next Fall, Raps will have JV, DeMar, Ed, and a high lottery pick. If BC also gets some solid dependable talent to come off the bench this year, he may have an attractive looking roster to help induce a cap space eating free agent, franchise type player, to come on-board.

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    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think it's way too early to start focusing on who your long term bench players are going to be. This is a team that won 22 games last year and will be hard pressed to improve on that this year. We hope we know who 3 of the starters will be, but without knowing who the other two are, or even who the best player will be, I don't understand how you can know what type of bench players you need. You need bench players that compliment the starters, and especially the best player, but how do you compliment open roster spots?
    Agreed. Role players or bench players are much easier to find. Every year there are players looking to get on winning teams. The hard part is buildining a winning team. A proper rebuild needs ther proper steps. we need to go step 1, step 2, step 3. NOT Step 1. Step 3. Step 2.

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    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I should have been more clear in where my thinking was.

    Most people agree that it would be counter productive to get top rank free agents this year, assuming you could, since that would result in not giving the young guys enough run, and also the Raptors might improve themselves out of good draft position.

    By focusing his efforts on acquiring solid second tier guys, BC might be able to beat out other teams who are all crowding around Nene, Chandler and Gasol, and holding off on other deals because they need to keep their cap space. BC might have first pick of those second tier guys who are available. If he can get them, at what might be good prices this year, and sign them to 3-4 year contracts, he would have them available as the Raps existing pieces mature and improve, and they could always be used as trading chips in future deals, when it is time to pull the trigger on major moves.

    Next Fall, Raps will have JV, DeMar, Ed, and a high lottery pick. If BC also gets some solid dependable talent to come off the bench this year, he may have an attractive looking roster to help induce a cap space eating free agent, franchise type player, to come on-board.
    I have never really been and NBA MAX FREE AGENT but if I were I wouldnt really care who is on the bench behind me as much as i would care who is starting beside me.

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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    I have never really been and NBA MAX FREE AGENT but if I were I wouldnt really care who is on the bench behind me as much as i would care who is starting beside me.
    Well....I have been an NBA MAX FREE AGENT two or three times now, and that is exactly the way I looked at it. Can't argue with you on this one :-)

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    lol . well in that case.
    can i borrow some money?

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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I should have been more clear in where my thinking was.

    Most people agree that it would be counter productive to get top rank free agents this year, assuming you could, since that would result in not giving the young guys enough run, and also the Raptors might improve themselves out of good draft position.

    By focusing his efforts on acquiring solid second tier guys, BC might be able to beat out other teams who are all crowding around Nene, Chandler and Gasol, and holding off on other deals because they need to keep their cap space. BC might have first pick of those second tier guys who are available. If he can get them, at what might be good prices this year, and sign them to 3-4 year contracts, he would have them available as the Raps existing pieces mature and improve, and they could always be used as trading chips in future deals, when it is time to pull the trigger on major moves.

    Next Fall, Raps will have JV, DeMar, Ed, and a high lottery pick. If BC also gets some solid dependable talent to come off the bench this year, he may have an attractive looking roster to help induce a cap space eating free agent, franchise type player, to come on-board.
    I'm still in agreement with your thinking.

    Look at New Jersey. Even with Lopez and Williams, the two hardest positions to fill in basketball, they are lacking a roster that would be deemed attractive to a top free agent. Williams refuses to even sign an extension at this time.

    The Raptors should be stockpiling young talent and quality role players/reserves to entice a top free agent to step in to a situation whereby their addition coupled with the growth of the young players will produce a playoff franchise and a contender much sooner than later.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    But they gave up their team for Williams...and he was in his last year. That was a desperation move when they couldnt get Melo in a extend & trade. They werent patient and now will have trouble attracting anyone decent alongwith the danger that DW leaves. That is not nice.

    Improving your bench is an interesting conundrum...do you improve first to attract the f/a or get your f/a first. What will be troublesome in the first is the rule 2 yrs away where one wont be able to go over the lux. tax plus 4 mill. threshold. Teams are going to balance a lot of balls going forward.

    Wonder how the Heat are going to improve their bench, get a centre and pg now that Chalmers & Miller are hurting. How long is Haslem going to play at a discount?
    Last edited by Bendit; Sat Dec 3rd, 2011 at 08:30 PM.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'm still in agreement with your thinking.

    Look at New Jersey. Even with Lopez and Williams, the two hardest positions to fill in basketball, they are lacking a roster that would be deemed attractive to a top free agent. Williams refuses to even sign an extension at this time.

    The Raptors should be stockpiling young talent and quality role players/reserves to entice a top free agent to step in to a situation whereby their addition coupled with the growth of the young players will produce a playoff franchise and a contender much sooner than later.
    Top free agents usually choose to go to NY, LA, or Miami not Toronto, Denver, or Utah. The Raptors have had trouble resigning their best draft picks. If Derozen's upside is that of eventual all star status, he will be difficult to resign.

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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    But they gave up their team for Williams...and he was in his last year. That was a desperation move when they couldnt get Melo in a extend & trade. They werent patient and now will have trouble attracting anyone decent alongwith the danger that DW leaves. That is not nice.

    Improving your bench is an interesting conundrum...do you improve first to attract the f/a or get your f/a first. What will be troublesome in the first is the rule 2 yrs away where one wont be able to go over the lux. tax plus 4 mill. threshold. Teams are going to balance a lot of balls going forward.

    Wonder how the Heat are going to improve their bench, get a centre and pg now that Chalmers & Miller are hurting. How long is Haslem going to play at a discount?
    Pretty sure the nets plan has been to get ready to throw money around. D-Will was a risk, but its a risk to attract other FA (Dwight?) and then in return keep D-Will.

    Don't forget they'll be in NY soon... and not the hole they currently are.

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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    Top free agents usually choose to go to NY, LA, or Miami not Toronto, Denver, or Utah. The Raptors have had trouble resigning their best draft picks. If Derozen's upside is that of eventual all star status, he will be difficult to resign.
    Stars will generally stay with teams they have faith in. If you give the player a reason to stay, I think they generally will (unless they hate the city). Durant chose to stay with Oklahoma because they'd done a very good job building a winner. I can't say the same for any of the other teams with stars that have either left or are thinking about it. Even Cleveland, while a winner, was not managed well at all.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Stars will generally stay with teams they have faith in. If you give the player a reason to stay, I think they generally will (unless they hate the city). Durant chose to stay with Oklahoma because they'd done a very good job building a winner. I can't say the same for any of the other teams with stars that have either left or are thinking about it. Even Cleveland, while a winner, was not managed well at all.
    Agree.

    All things being equal, top free agents go where the money is. Name 5 free agents in the last five years, who have been under the age of 28, and haven't gone where they got the most money. The big three in Miami last year were an aberration, under special circumstances. Lots of top free agents go to potential championship teams, when they are 29, 30 or 31 or older, looking for a ring. NY, LA, or Miami are going to have their problems with the new CBA. And, quite frankly, Chicago, Detroit, Oklahoma, Dallas have all taken their turns doing pretty well at attracting top free agents over the last decade.

    And if Toronto has up and coming young players, with a more than solid bench, there are going to be free agents who would rather be on winning teams than on losers.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    Top free agents usually choose to go to NY, LA, or Miami not Toronto, Denver, or Utah. The Raptors have had trouble resigning their best draft picks. If Derozen's upside is that of eventual all star status, he will be difficult to resign.
    Top free agents go where they can get the most money and a chance to win. Looking at the books, NY, LA, and MIA all appear to be fresh out of cap space.

    As for DeRozan.... thats the spirit!

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