Ed Davis put the work in this summer (Sun article added post 24)

[Puffer]

So he followed through on his promise and now he's got the mass to log some time under center. To gain that much muscle in that much time is a great accomplishment. He should feel proud.

As a drop out from Kinesiology, and a certified personal trainer (now lapsed) I can guarantee that no one gains 17 pounds of muscle in a summer, even a long summer, unless they are hitting steroids big time, which I doubt is true in this case. He may well be 17 pounds heavier, but about 4 pounds is liquid and 4 pounds is fat. But considering the ration of muscle to everything else, 9 pounds of muscle is going to make him a lot stronger, since it will probably be equally divided between his legs (thighs) and upper body (chest, shoulders and arms).

[Tim W.]

This is the exact same team as last year...

Ya, but it's STACKED!

[NoPropsneeded]

Wow. A playing weight of 235 would be impressive for a guy with his frame.
Can't wait to see what he looks like.

I want to see how he looks too. But i have a feeling that we'll end up being disappointed when we do.

[Matt52]

TORONTO - Ed Davis knew he would have to hit the weights hard in order to build off of a solid rookie campaign.

Davis’ father, Terry, a former NBA bruiser, told a Raptors scribe late last season that Ed would be “sleeping in the weight room.”

Mission accomplished. The University of North Carolina product said he used his extended time in the gym in Los Angeles wisely.

Davis, who said he finished the season weighing a slight 216 pounds, now seems more equipped to battle with the league’s burly veterans.

“I got to like 236 (pounds) at one point, I’m probably like 233, 234, somewhere in there now,” Davis told the Toronto Sun.

With no true centre on the roster aside from the very raw Solomon Alabi and since Andrea Bargnani is expected to move back to his more comfortable power forward position, the 6-foot-10 Davis might find himself manning the middle on some nights depending on what happens in free agency.

Davis, who averaged 7.7 points, 7.1 rebounds and a block in 24 minutes per game and was jobbed out of a spot on the all-rookie team, said he had a “a couple of goals written down” for himself, but would not reveal them.

Davis missed training camp and the pre-season in 2010-11 due to a freak injury and said he was understandably pleased to be healthy to start the campaign and to finally have the lockout behind him.

Source: Toronto Sun

[SuperRaptor]

This is the exact same team as last year...

The difference is:

1) We didnt get Bayless until the 2nd half of last year, and he never started until the last month during which he played his best ball.

2) Demar only kicked it into the next level in the 2nd half of the year, and barbosa struggled with injuries the whole year.

3) We only picked up James Johnson at the trade deadline and he filled up the stat sheet, Kleiza was injured most of last year.

4) Andrea Bargnani wasnt playing his natural position, now he will be.

5) Ed Davis is 20 lbs heavier and big enough to play the 5, so now we actually have someone that protects the rim. All accounts say that Alabi has improved too, and he is a defensive player.

Last year our starting lineup at the beginning of the season was:

PG- Calderon
SG- Derozan
SF- Kleiza
PF- Bargnani
C- Evans (we were doing good with Reggie at the 5 until he got hurt)

Now our starting line up should look like this:

PG- Bayless
SG- Derozan
SF- James Johnson
PF- Bargnani
C- Ed Davis

Slightly different with each player coming in stronger, in better shape, and more mature than last year... I think its exciting.

[SuperRaptor]

Ya, but it's STACKED!

Don't worry Tim we suck so bad no matter what happens we are gonna get a good draft pick so you got nothing to worry about buds =) Tanking FTW.

[Chr1s1anL]

Ed Davis weighted 227 lbs at the draft combine so unless he lost about 12 pounds during last season. A season where he was injured for most of it. Spent most of the time working out cause he couldn't put any pressure on his knee, so technically he only gained 8 pounds. Its probably all muscle looking at this footage from this summer.

His number 34 in white and than number 33 in red



His Draftexpress profile showing his weight after the draft combine
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ed-Davis-1354/

[Tim W.]

The difference is:

1) We didnt get Bayless until the 2nd half of last year, and he never started until the last month during which he played his best ball.

2) Demar only kicked it into the next level in the 2nd half of the year, and barbosa struggled with injuries the whole year.

3) We only picked up James Johnson at the trade deadline and he filled up the stat sheet, Kleiza was injured most of last year.

4) Andrea Bargnani wasnt playing his natural position, now he will be.

5) Ed Davis is 20 lbs heavier and big enough to play the 5, so now we actually have someone that protects the rim. All accounts say that Alabi has improved too, and he is a defensive player.

Last year our starting lineup at the beginning of the season was:

PG- Calderon
SG- Derozan
SF- Kleiza
PF- Bargnani
C- Evans (we were doing good with Reggie at the 5 until he got hurt)

Now our starting line up should look like this:

PG- Bayless
SG- Derozan
SF- James Johnson
PF- Bargnani
C- Ed Davis

Slightly different with each player coming in stronger, in better shape, and more mature than last year... I think its exciting.

The problem with your theory is that the Raptors actually did worse AFTER they acquired Bayless and James Johnson.

And while JJ does fill up the stat sheet, that doesn't exactly equate to wins.

And, yes, Bargnani will be playing the PF position. Again, how does that equate to more wins?

And while Davis adding muscle will definitely help, you know he was on the floor last year, too? The center doesn't really protect the rim and more than the PF. This seems to be a point you ignore when I make it.

[Apollo]

As a drop out from Kinesiology, and a certified personal trainer (now lapsed) I can guarantee that no one gains 17 pounds of muscle in a summer, even a long summer, unless they are hitting steroids big time, which I doubt is true in this case. He may well be 17 pounds heavier, but about 4 pounds is liquid and 4 pounds is fat. But considering the ration of muscle to everything else, 9 pounds of muscle is going to make him a lot stronger, since it will probably be equally divided between his legs (thighs) and upper body (chest, shoulders and arms).

It was seven months and the rest of it you may be right but it was seven months, not a summer.

Ed Davis weighted 227 lbs at the draft combine so unless he lost about 12 pounds during last season. A season where he was injured for most of it. Spent most of the time working out cause he couldn't put any pressure on his knee, so technically he only gained 8 pounds. Its probably all muscle looking at this footage from this summer.

That was in May/June. Perhaps he worked on conditioning all summer and dropped to 215lbs? NBA.com, Yahoo Sports, CBSsports.com, ESPN.com and TSN.ca all have him at 215lbs. I'm thinking the 215lbs number is the most recent number.

[WJF]

It was seven months and the rest of it you may be right but it was seven months, not a summer.



That was in May/June. Perhaps he worked on conditioning all summer and dropped to 215lbs? NBA.com, Yahoo Sports, CBSsports.com, ESPN.com and TSN.ca all have him at 215lbs. I'm thinking the 215lbs number is the most recent number.

Once he started playing regular minutes the extra weight from not being in top cardio shape came off, 215 is where he ended the season.

[Apollo]

I had him on multiple fantasy teams so needless to say I looked at his player card often. He was listed as 215lbs all season on multiple sites. They might only update that stuff once a year before the season starts.

The fact that he himself is getting out news of 17lbs of added mass would cause one to think the 215lbs number posted on many sites is what he was last season and heading into the summer. Last year he looked lean all season.

[SuperRaptor]

The problem with your theory is that the Raptors actually did worse AFTER they acquired Bayless and James Johnson.

And while JJ does fill up the stat sheet, that doesn't exactly equate to wins.

And, yes, Bargnani will be playing the PF position. Again, how does that equate to more wins?

And while Davis adding muscle will definitely help, you know he was on the floor last year, too? The center doesn't really protect the rim and more than the PF. This seems to be a point you ignore when I make it.

Just because we didn't win that many games last year as a team doesn't mean we can just dismiss James Johnson's numbers and say "he doesnt help the team win" the team had issues last year to do with defense which were not caused by any deficiency he had.

I believe Bargnani's numbers will improve at the PF position because that is his "natural" position and he obviously will play better if he is more comfortable there. That doesn't seem like rocket science to me... just saying.

About whether or not the Center position is more crucial than the PF position in terms of protecting the rim:

Joel Anthony -----> Partner PF (Chris Bosh)
Andrew Bynum -----> Partner PF (Pau Gasol)
Tyson Chandler -----> Partner PF (Dirk Nowitzki)
Jason Collins --------> Partner PF (Josh Smith)
Marc Gasol ---------> Partner PF (Zack Randolph)
Joakim Noah --------> Partner PF (Carlos Boozer)
Jermaine O'Neal ---------> Partner PF (Kevin Garnett)
Kendrick Perkins --------> Partner PF (Serge Ibaka)

Thats a list of the eight teams that won at least one round in the playoffs and who their partner PF was. One theme is very common, the Center is a VERY defensive player only Marc Gasol who averages 12 pts a game can be considered an offensive threat at this time. Another theme that is outstanding is that the PF who they play with is usually a very offensive player, only Ibaka is an exception to this (averaging 9 pts a game). In most cases the PF is not known for their defense AT ALL, the exceptions to this are Josh Smith, and Kevin Garnett. Others might be decent defenders but are not known for their defense. Notice guys like Chris Bosh and Dirk Nowitzki (PF's of the two teams that made it to the finals) are not great defenders but their teams thrived when they were paired up with defensive players at the C.

So please ... do not say that I ignore this point I never really considered it to valid of a criticism on your part. Do not dismiss the effect of a defensive Center on your team defense. Outside of the PG position the C is the most crucial defensive position, sure PF is important but not as important as the C.

If I am right and Bayless can keep guys in front of him better than Calderon, and we fill our C spot with a shot blocker (Ed Davis) I think those two adjustments along with a defensive fanatic like Dwayne Casey as our head coach, should be enough to take us from last in defense to middle of the pack in defense. Thats how important I think PG and C are to our defense.

And if we become a middle of the pack defensive team, I dont think its unrealistic to think we can slip into the playoffs as the 7th or 8th seed. Tanking FTW.

[Hugmenot]

The difference is:

1) We didnt get Bayless until the 2nd half of last year, and he never started until the last month during which he played his best ball.

2) Demar only kicked it into the next level in the 2nd half of the year, and barbosa struggled with injuries the whole year.

3) We only picked up James Johnson at the trade deadline and he filled up the stat sheet, Kleiza was injured most of last year.

4) Andrea Bargnani wasnt playing his natural position, now he will be.

5) Ed Davis is 20 lbs heavier and big enough to play the 5, so now we actually have someone that protects the rim. All accounts say that Alabi has improved too, and he is a defensive player.

Last year our starting lineup at the beginning of the season was:

PG- Calderon
SG- Derozan
SF- Kleiza
PF- Bargnani
C- Evans (we were doing good with Reggie at the 5 until he got hurt)

Now our starting line up should look like this:

PG- Bayless
SG- Derozan
SF- James Johnson
PF- Bargnani
C- Ed Davis

Slightly different with each player coming in stronger, in better shape, and more mature than last year... I think its exciting.

I think so too and I expect the Raptors to win 34 to 37% of their games with their current roster.

When you consider Bargnani, Barbosa, Calderon, and A Johnson carried injuries significant enough to eventually sideline them, it's not surprising a team with not much depth like the Raptors lost a lot a games in the last month and a half.

[Tim W.]

Just because we didn't win that many games last year as a team doesn't mean we can just dismiss James Johnson's numbers and say "he doesnt help the team win" the team had issues last year to do with defense which were not caused by any deficiency he had.

It's not that I don't think he helps the team (when he plays well, I do think he does), but I don't think, at this point in his career, he really has much of an impact. And while James JOhnson has the tools to be a good defender, and played good defense at times, there were also numerous times when his defense wasn't any better than anyone else.

I believe Bargnani's numbers will improve at the PF position because that is his "natural" position and he obviously will play better if he is more comfortable there. That doesn't seem like rocket science to me... just saying.

I think he'll quickly find there really isn't much difference between the PF and center position. He certainly won't change his offense by "switching" to PF. And there is no evidence to suggest he'll play better defensively at PF. In fact he'll probably run into better scorers defending the PF position than he will centers. And many of them will not be the plodding, post up big man he is "best" at defending. He'll be asked to defend more faceup big men who can put the ball on the floor, something he's always had trouble defending.

About whether or not the Center position is more crucial than the PF position in terms of protecting the rim:

Joel Anthony -----> Partner PF (Chris Bosh)
Andrew Bynum -----> Partner PF (Pau Gasol)
Tyson Chandler -----> Partner PF (Dirk Nowitzki)
Jason Collins --------> Partner PF (Josh Smith)
Marc Gasol ---------> Partner PF (Zack Randolph)
Joakim Noah --------> Partner PF (Carlos Boozer)
Jermaine O'Neal ---------> Partner PF (Kevin Garnett)
Kendrick Perkins --------> Partner PF (Serge Ibaka)

Thats a list of the eight teams that won at least one round in the playoffs and who their partner PF was. One theme is very common, the Center is a VERY defensive player only Marc Gasol who averages 12 pts a game can be considered an offensive threat at this time. Another theme that is outstanding is that the PF who they play with is usually a very offensive player, only Ibaka is an exception to this (averaging 9 pts a game). In most cases the PF is not known for their defense AT ALL, the exceptions to this are Josh Smith, and Kevin Garnett. Others might be decent defenders but are not known for their defense. Notice guys like Chris Bosh and Dirk Nowitzki (PF's of the two teams that made it to the finals) are not great defenders but their teams thrived when they were paired up with defensive players at the C.

So please ... do not say that I ignore this point I never really considered it to valid of a criticism on your part. Do not dismiss the effect of a defensive Center on your team defense. Outside of the PG position the C is the most crucial defensive position, sure PF is important but not as important as the C.

I've never dismissed the effect of ANY defensive big man. But my point is that, unless a team plays zone 90% of the time, both big men have to protect the rim as much as the other. It comes down to what side of the court the ball is and what side of the court your big men are. Sometimes it's going to fall to your center, and sometimes it's going to fall to your PF.

And the fact is that teams like Chicago, who have below average PFs defensively, struggled in the playoffs when they were on the floor a lot of the time. The other team simply took advantage of their weakness.

And one reason there are so many defensive centers is because there are so few 7 footers who can score and not hurt their team on the other end. To be successful, you generally need at least one big man who commands double teams, and there are a lot more good offensive PFs than center.

As for your assertion that PG is the second most important position defensively, history says differently. Plenty of teams have won Championships with PGs that were average or even below average defensively. Teams with even one below average big man defensively who have won Championships are EXTREMELY scarce. Dirk, despite his reputation as I've said, is actually a decent defender, mostly because he understand team defense. And Bosh is actually a better defender than a lot of Raptor fans have given him credit for- I, for one, never understood that criticism.

If I am right and Bayless can keep guys in front of him better than Calderon, and we fill our C spot with a shot blocker (Ed Davis) I think those two adjustments along with a defensive fanatic like Dwayne Casey as our head coach, should be enough to take us from last in defense to middle of the pack in defense. Thats how important I think PG and C are to our defense.

Defense is way more than being able to keep your man in front of you. And in the NBA NO PG can keep their man in front of them. Especially with the current rules. Besides, IF Bayless is a better defender (and that's a big if, at this point) he's not in the same league on the other end of the court. Calderon, for all his weaknesses, consistently makes his team better simply by being on the court.

And if we become a middle of the pack defensive team, I dont think its unrealistic to think we can slip into the playoffs as the 7th or 8th seed. Tanking FTW.

Fist of all, going from last on defense to middle of the pack would be a massive, massive improvement, and unless Colangelo is going to sign Chandler and Battier, I simply don't see that happening. This is a young, inexperienced team with only a few above average defenders on the entire roster. Casey isn't a miracle worker, which seems to be what you're expecting.

Besides, simply becoming a middle of the pack defensive team isn't going to win 20 more games for them. New Jersey was in the middle of the pack defensively. The Clippers, Philly and Charlotte were actually better than average, defensively, and none of them were close to making the playoffs. And all three of those teams have MUCH better defenders than the Raptors do.

I just think you're setting yourself up to be disappointed. Besides, that territory you're talking about is exactly where the Raptors have been for most of their 16 years existence. I just don't see why you want to see more of that, since it has certainly not been successful for them.

[Lark Benson]

The difference is:

1) We didnt get Bayless until the 2nd half of last year, and he never started until the last month during which he played his best ball.

2) Demar only kicked it into the next level in the 2nd half of the year, and barbosa struggled with injuries the whole year.

3) We only picked up James Johnson at the trade deadline and he filled up the stat sheet, Kleiza was injured most of last year.

4) Andrea Bargnani wasnt playing his natural position, now he will be.

5) Ed Davis is 20 lbs heavier and big enough to play the 5, so now we actually have someone that protects the rim. All accounts say that Alabi has improved too, and he is a defensive player.

Last year our starting lineup at the beginning of the season was:

PG- Calderon
SG- Derozan
SF- Kleiza
PF- Bargnani
C- Evans (we were doing good with Reggie at the 5 until he got hurt)

Now our starting line up should look like this:

PG- Bayless
SG- Derozan
SF- James Johnson
PF- Bargnani
C- Ed Davis

Slightly different with each player coming in stronger, in better shape, and more mature than last year... I think its exciting.

It's eerie how similar this is to last year's optimism. I remember some people talking about how:

1. Calderon would finally be healthy, he and Jack would form another great PG tandem.

2. DeMar had really worked on his handle and his shot, was scoring a lot in the pre-season, was really going to break out (this one was at least partially correct).

3. Kleiza was going to help space the floor, was a great pickup, etc etc.

4. Bargs would be better with Bosh gone.

5. Reggie Evans would give them a leader, would impart some toughness, and the team would improve defensively with him on the floor.

Now obviously these things don't all correlate directly, my point is simply that in the pre-season fans never seem to account for injuries and assume that every player on the team is going to take a big step forward or play to their potential. Never, ever works out that way.

You look at the new starting lineup and see youth, athletic ability and talent, but what you ignore is their collective inexperience. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see who will step up, but we go through this same song and dance of high expectations and sobering realities every season.

[Hugmenot]

I think he'll quickly find there really isn't much difference between the PF and center position. He certainly won't change his offense by "switching" to PF.

Why should he switch it? I don't think Bargnani was an issue on the offensive end of the court.

While Amir Johnson was more efficient, I don't think anyone would expect him to continue at the same efficiency if he had a usage rate of 20% or more. Consider a line-up of Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, James Johnson, Demar DeRozan, and Jose Calderon (another efficient player), what are their usage rate when on the floor?

In fact he'll (Bargnai will) probably run into better scorers defending the PF position than he will centers. And many of them will not be the plodding, post up big man he is "best" at defending. He'll be asked to defend more faceup big men who can put the ball on the floor, something he's always had trouble defending.

How can that be possible? You have said on many occasions that Bargnani generally defended the least talented, offensively speaking, big regardless whether it was a PF or C.

I've never dismissed the effect of ANY defensive big man. But my point is that, unless a team plays zone 90% of the time, both big men have to protect the rim as much as the other.

Nowitzki was not the closest big man to the rim on 50% of the Miami possessions. I thought he played much more like a disruptor (a bit like a roamer coming out to disrupt the play) than a rim protector.

And the fact is that teams like Chicago, who have below average PFs defensively, struggled in the playoffs when they were on the floor a lot of the time. The other team simply took advantage of their weakness.

In my opinion, Chicago's struggles in the playoffs were far more due to Rose being the sole offensive option way too too often. Miami scored 82, 85, 96, 101, and 83 to win the series and thus it is really hard for me to understand how Chicago struggled on the defensive end. As much as I like Noah, it was really painful to see him on the offensive end in the Heat series (6.0 ppg on 13/41 shooting).

[Tim W.]

Why should he switch it? I don't think Bargnani was an issue on the offensive end of the court.

While Amir Johnson was more efficient, I don't think anyone would expect him to continue at the same efficiency if he had a usage rate of 20% or more. Consider a line-up of Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, James Johnson, Demar DeRozan, and Jose Calderon (another efficient player), what are their usage rate when on the floor?

Obviously as a player's usage goes up, his efficiency is going to go down, most of the time. But I'd rather have more efficient players on the court as much as I could. Besides, a lineup like that isn't going to get many wins anyway, so it doesn't matter. Of course, neither would lineup where Bargnani would replace one of the bigs.

How can that be possible? You have said on many occasions that Bargnani generally defended the least talented, offensively speaking, big regardless whether it was a PF or C.

Yes, and my comment is not contradicted by that. The fact is that there are far more talented PFs in the NBA than centers (partially due to the fact that many players big enough to play center don't want to), especially offensively, so if Bargnani is going to be defending the PF position the majority of the time, he's going to have to defend better offensive players. And Bargnani struggles the most, defensively one on one, against players who can put the ball on the floor, something he is going to see A LOT more defending the PF position.

Unless Casey decides to continue to have Bargnani defend the opposing team's least productive big man, he's going to facer better players. And if he does defend the least productive big man, then there's really not going to be much of a difference from last season.

Nowitzki was not the closest big man to the rim on 50% of the Miami possessions. I thought he played much more like a disruptor (a bit like a roamer coming out to disrupt the play) than a rim protector.

If Nowitztki wasn't the closest big man to the rim on 50% of the Miami possessions, doesn't that mean he was the closest big man to the rim on the other 50% of Miami possessions, thus proving my point?

In my opinion, Chicago's struggles in the playoffs were far more due to Rose being the sole offensive option way too too often. Miami scored 82, 85, 96, 101, and 83 to win the series and thus it is really hard for me to understand how Chicago struggled on the defensive end. As much as I like Noah, it was really painful to see him on the offensive end in the Heat series (6.0 ppg on 13/41 shooting).

There were a multitude of reasons the Bulls ended up losing to Miami, one of which was a lack of offensive production outside of Rose, but Miami did often take advantage of Boozer's lack of defense. One thing working in Chicago's favour against Miami, though was the fact that Miami had only one big man who was a threat to score, at all. The low scoring, I felt, was more due to the pace of the games than anything. Quite frankly, I think both teams are quite flawed, but the East doesn't have a team that isn't in the same boat, so it really didn't matter to much until the Finals.

[SuperRaptor]

It's eerie how similar this is to last year's optimism. I remember some people talking about how:

1. Calderon would finally be healthy, he and Jack would form another great PG tandem.

2. DeMar had really worked on his handle and his shot, was scoring a lot in the pre-season, was really going to break out (this one was at least partially correct).

3. Kleiza was going to help space the floor, was a great pickup, etc etc.

4. Bargs would be better with Bosh gone.

5. Reggie Evans would give them a leader, would impart some toughness, and the team would improve defensively with him on the floor.

Now obviously these things don't all correlate directly, my point is simply that in the pre-season fans never seem to account for injuries and assume that every player on the team is going to take a big step forward or play to their potential. Never, ever works out that way.

You look at the new starting lineup and see youth, athletic ability and talent, but what you ignore is their collective inexperience. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see who will step up, but we go through this same song and dance of high expectations and sobering realities every season.

Honestly I dont thing my high expectations of being a .500+ team are unrealistic. I watched every raptors game last year, and I think we are closer than some people think. I honestly believe the difference between a good team and a bad team can be very subtle.

I could care less that people on this forum were optimistic last year, why wouldnt they be, they are fans. I dont think their is anything wrong with that. You never heard me say "that the raptors are gonna win the championship this year" that is unrealistic, saying "I think the raptors will become a good team this year" is what every fan should be saying if you ask me.

[RaptorDan]

I think he added 17 pounds of ink. Those are some truly horrific tattoos. He has stink lines all over his stomach! Yikes.

[Brandon]

Part of it is maturation. He turned 22 over the summer. I'm 6'7" and between my 2nd and 3rd year of university I gained 20 pounds with some serious time in the weight room. Part of it was just getting older but the majority was training under a specific training program and diet (steak and eggs for breakfast, tuna for lunch, steak for supper - lol, not quite but close enough).

That's the kind of diet everybody should be eating. Low-carb. But an adult can't really put on more than about 5 pounds of actual muscle per year of weight training. Davis still has some physical maturing to do, so that may help account for it.