Toronto makes Battier's list of potential destinations

[Nilanka]

I'm torn on the idea of Battier.

On the one hand, he's a great pro, solid veteran voice in the locker room, and every member of our current roster could learn something from him regarding professionalism, and commitment to defense. As his game declines in the final year(s) of his contract, he could still be a valuable piece as a Derrick Martin type (i.e. end-of-the-bench coach on the floor).

On the other hand, he'll come with a hefty and lengthy contract, which (as Tim mentioned), could jeopardize our shot at a top 3 pick, and take minutes away from J.Johnson's development.

But if I had to choose, I would lean towards Battier doing more good than harm.

[RAPresenting]

We know, we know.

Tank or Die. Lol

Actually laughed out loud!

[Tim W.]

We know, we know.

Tank or Die. Lol

No. "Tank" or continue doing the same thing they've been doing for the past 16 years. I opt for the former.

[LBF]

So, you were taking a dump when you wrote this. yet, you couldn't link to it?

did you have a turtle head popping out as you we're writing it?

[Hugmenot]

If the Raptors miss out on the ping pong ball that gets them the first pick in the draft, because they wanted to pay a 31 year old who will be well past his prime when the team needs him the most, I don't think it's worth it.

And how would you go about determining with certainty if the specific ping-pong that dropped for the first pick would have been allocated to the Raptors, not team X?

You can't.

Also, how can you measure exactly how many additional wins the Raptors had by the sole presence of say, Battier?

You can't; there are models which estimate this value but the key words are models and estimate. A team cannot in paralysis mode because it is afraid to second guess the result of a future probabilistic event.

I am not advocating signing or not signing Battier; just that would alter the outlook of the current and near future Raptors. It's not all about JV and future lottery picks; it's also about players that are here now.

[Joey]

It's not all about JV and future lottery picks; it's also about players that are here now.

Great post overall Hug, but I especially agreed with this last part, which is often overlooked.

You think these guys will want to stay with the Raptors if we just continue rest on our laurels and wait for Draft Picks and the Future Savior to arrive?
What does it say to our current group of players if you don't try and build around them? But instead wait for some yet-to-be named Hero to arrive and Save us.

I'm fine with receiving high draft picks, but I don't want it to be had at the expense of Morale or Lack of faith in the Franchise. Which is what will happen if no steps are taken to at least try to improve the product on the floor.

[planetmars]

Can anyone site a reference where a group of young players (still in their rookie contracts, and none of which are considered franchise players yet) who were given a chance to play heavy minutes for their development felt they needed to leave once their rookie contract expired because the franchise was resting on its laurels and was going through a real rebuild?

More often than not, you hear of the opposite, where a franchise player wants to leave because the team is spending on veterans and role players that don't make sense and is not creating a winner (eg, Cleveland, Toronto, Denver, probably Orlando).

Even OKC and Chicago kept 'rebuilding' with Durant and Rose in toe.

If either Demar or Davis were playing like a true franchise players (similar to the way Vince was), then you might have a point. But we don't have anyone like that on our team.

[RPT23]

Great post overall Hug, but I especially agreed with this last part, which is often overlooked.

You think these guys will want to stay with the Raptors if we just continue rest on our laurels and wait for Draft Picks and the Future Savior to arrive?
What does it say to our current group of players if you don't try and build around them? But instead wait for some yet-to-be named Hero to arrive and Save us.

I'm fine with receiving high draft picks, but I don't want it to be had at the expense of Morale or Lack of faith in the Franchise. Which is what will happen if no steps are taken to at least try to improve the product on the floor.

I 100% agree...

[Tim W.]

Great post overall Hug, but I especially agreed with this last part, which is often overlooked.

You think these guys will want to stay with the Raptors if we just continue rest on our laurels and wait for Draft Picks and the Future Savior to arrive?
What does it say to our current group of players if you don't try and build around them? But instead wait for some yet-to-be named Hero to arrive and Save us.

I'm fine with receiving high draft picks, but I don't want it to be had at the expense of Morale or Lack of faith in the Franchise. Which is what will happen if no steps are taken to at least try to improve the product on the floor.

The problem with your theory is no one is suggesting the Raptors continually rest on their laurels and do nothing. Just this season. And none of the young players can leave next summer, so who really cares? The whole point is to put together a young team with enough potential to contend so the young players don't want to leave. Because adding small pieces here or there certainly hasn't worked for the team very well over the last 16 years, has it?

[Joey]

The problem with your theory is no one is suggesting the Raptors continually rest on their laurels and do nothing. Just this season. And none of the young players can leave next summer, so who really cares? The whole point is to put together a young team with enough potential to contend so the young players don't want to leave. Because adding small pieces here or there certainly hasn't worked for the team very well over the last 16 years, has it?

Which is fine and I agree that small pieces to bad team won't make much difference. If any.
So whats the harm in acquiring a player that will have the respect of everyone in the entire Locker Room for many years to come?

And I was also more just speaking to the fact that you don't want our current crop of players thinking they are 'chopped liver' or something, and Management is just waiting for the Steak to arrive before dressing up the Place.
It doesn't matter if they can leave next year or not. If they get a sour taste in their mouth for whatever reason, they're going to be more inclined to leave when they have the chance.

Almost every single player in the league, (especially young guys) believes they have what it takes to be Franchise/All-Star players. You don't dream as a kid to be a Role Player in the NBA.

You don't want to say to Demar, Ed et al, that they aren't good enough to lead the team, and thus we won't even try to add good pieces for them to work with. That will only make them want to prove else where that they have what it takes. In my opinion.

[Buschfire]

hmm

I consider Shane Battier a great veteran presence as well as a defensive presence, he will bring professinalism and help the young people on our team grow as players. He's only 33 look at Grant Hill or Nash, I'm sure Battier has a good 5 years left in him. I think he would be a great pick up for the team. I don't think it would really effect the draft either becuase I see him more as a complimentary piece. I really don't think he is going to bring us that many more wins if he joins. its more about his presence for the younger players, & his defensive mentality. Besides you never know where the ping pong ball will roll.

[Tim W.]

Which is fine and I agree that small pieces to bad team won't make much difference. If any.
So whats the harm in acquiring a player that will have the respect of everyone in the entire Locker Room for many years to come?

And I was also more just speaking to the fact that you don't want our current crop of players thinking they are 'chopped liver' or something, and Management is just waiting for the Steak to arrive before dressing up the Place.
It doesn't matter if they can leave next year or not. If they get a sour taste in their mouth for whatever reason, they're going to be more inclined to leave when they have the chance.

Almost every single player in the league, (especially young guys) believes they have what it takes to be Franchise/All-Star players. You don't dream as a kid to be a Role Player in the NBA.

You don't want to say to Demar, Ed et al, that they aren't good enough to lead the team, and thus we won't even try to add good pieces for them to work with. That will only make them want to prove else where that they have what it takes. In my opinion.

If Battier wins 5 more games for the Raptors, and moves them from 2nd worst to 4th or even 5th worst, and because of that they end up dropping out of the top 3 or even 5 in the lottery, then I'd say the harm is right there.

And if the current players think they're good enough to eventually compete, how is not adding good free agents going to make them think the franchise doesn't have faith in them? Right now, the Raptors have a very good excuse not to add any big free agents, and it has nothing to do with disrespecting the current crop. On the contrary. The team wants to see just how good the current roster is. They have players they want to look at in every position, plus Valanciunas coming next season.

As for your comment about every player believing their are an All-Star/franchise player, I disagree. I think a number of young players do, but most players understand what type of player they are by the time they reach the NBA. If they don't they'll have a lot of trouble finding their niche. Kris Humphries is the perfect example. He was a guy who probably felt he had what it takes to be an All-Star, which is probably why he always tried to do too much. When he eventually realized his place in the NBA, that's when he flourished.

EIther way, though, if the team doesn't add an big names to the team, wouldn't it just give the players confidence that the team believes in them?

[Tim W.]

I consider Shane Battier a great veteran presence as well as a defensive presence, he will bring professinalism and help the young people on our team grow as players. He's only 33 look at Grant Hill or Nash, I'm sure Battier has a good 5 years left in him. I think he would be a great pick up for the team. I don't think it would really effect the draft either becuase I see him more as a complimentary piece. I really don't think he is going to bring us that many more wins if he joins. its more about his presence for the younger players, & his defensive mentality. Besides you never know where the ping pong ball will roll.

So because Grant Hill and Steve Nash were able to be exceptions, you think Battier can, too? That's like saying that your buddy won the lottery, so there's no reason to believe you won't, as well.

Most wing players don't last much past 33-34. Battier may be one of the VERY few that do, but the Raptors aren't really in the best position to be making that gamble.

[ceez]

i'm pretty sure he will. he's a lean dude who relies on his intelligence moreso than his athleticism. in my experience ive noticed players last longer when they're like that.

[Tim W.]

i'm pretty sure he will. he's a lean dude who relies on his intelligence moreso than his athleticism. in my experience ive noticed players last longer when they're like that.

But he's also a guy who's never had very good athleticism, and whose calling card is defense. At some point, the guys he's defending are simply going to be too quick to be able to make up for it with smarts. Grant Hill was an athletic freak to begin with, plus he's really only played a couple of more seasons than Battier has, due to all the time he missed due to injury. Grant Hill has actually played fewer games than Donyell Marshall and Eddie Jone and only a handful more than Jalen Rose- all guys who were in his draft class.

Besides, how can you say you're pretty sure he will. You're saying your sure Battier will be the exception. So few wing players play beyond 34 in the NBA that I can count on one hand the number that did last season- Ray Allen, Grant Hill, Anthony Parker and Jerry Stackhouse. All but Parker had elite athleticism and Parker was still probably above average.

Now I'm not saying Battier won't, but there's no way I'd bank on it and that's exactly what you'd be doing if you offered him the contract he'll be seeking.