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Thread: New York Linsanes are struggling

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default New York Linsanes are struggling

    Losers of six straight. 2-8 in their last ten. Things don't look great right now for the clinically Linsane NYC Knicks fans. What's wrong with the team? It seems like they played better without the man they traded a big collection of young talent for. To me, they'd be far better right now had they not traded for Melo at all.

    With all that talent they gave Denver, one would think that would have been enough to get the Magic to send D12 to NYC if D12 was willing to sign with the Knicks---er I mean the Linsanes.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    I'm LovIN' it! Here's the reason why: Carmelo Anthony and these "superstars" and their trade demands and all are proof that the NBA is moving away from the "star" system that some teams have adopted. I understand that the model of "Superteams" was not a new concept (see the Lakers in the 80's), but the Heat pretty much topped that. Melo drama last year and this year it's Dwight's turn. Personally, as a ball fan all my life, I've always enjoyed the team ball concept.

    I liked how the Knicks played without Melo because it promoted a team ball concept and more importantly, the ball moved. I'm happy that they are falling apart. Perhaps marquee players will think twice about teaming up next time. As for Dwight and his demands (tweeting about wanting the be the "Man" in his potentially new team), be careful with what you ask for.

    George Karl said it best when he said that he prefers to have a top 10 guy at every position including the bench. I agree with that 1000%
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Losers of six straight. 2-8 in their last ten. Things don't look great right now for the clinically Linsane NYC Knicks fans. What's wrong with the team? It seems like they played better without the man they traded a big collection of young talent for. To me, they'd be far better right now had they not traded for Melo at all.

    With all that talent they gave Denver, one would think that would have been enough to get the Magic to send D12 to NYC if D12 was willing to sign with the Knicks---er I mean the Linsanes.
    A big collection of young talent?

    1. Timofey Mozgov, a 25 year old backup center who has yet to show he will be more than an end of rotation player.
    2. Raymond Felton, a 28 year old point guard who has struggled since leaving New York.
    3. Wilson Chandler, a 24 year old small forward who, at best, is an average starter quality small forward. He struggled in Denver last season and did not play in the NBA this season. He is a RFA and I will not be surprised if someone will overpay him.
    4. Danilo Gallinari, a 23 year old small forward, the best of the "big collection of young talents". A minor star player who was just extended for 4 years.
    5. A 2014 first round pick which will likely be out of the lottery.
    6. A 2012 second round pick
    7. A 2013 second round pick.

    The Knicks also received Chauncey Billups, a very good player, but had to release him last Summer when they decided to overpay Tyson Chandler.

    I believe the Knicks paid a very reasonable price for Carmelo Anthony as from my perspective, Danilo Gallinari is the only above average starter-quality player Denver received.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Yeah, effectively, the Knicks dealt Chandler and Gallinari for Melo and the cap space to sign Chandler. I am pretty sure every GM does that deal 100 times out of 100.

    What's wrong with the Knicks? They don't play defense. Any defense. They are atrocious. I've seen about 3 of their games during this skid and they just don't make any effort on that end of the floor. They actually remind me of watching the Raptors from the last couple of seasons. As opposed to Melo, I think the biggest issue is Stoudemire. He's slow and lethargic. That contract is going to kill the Knicks.

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    Carmelo Anthony was trying to defend his acquisition and instead supported the argument that the Knicks gave up too much to get him from Denver.

    As if the numbers before the two teams met Saturday night didn't scream the Nuggets got the better of the deal thus far. The Knicks' regular-season record since the trade was 20-23. The Nuggets were 29-12.

    "You can't compare our team to Denver's team," Anthony said. "They got five starters from that trade. Denver's a hell of a team. They're one of the deeper teams in the NBA right now."

    The trade did that. Denver received Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton and Timofey Mozgov. Only Gallinari and Mozgov remain, but Felton eventually was flipped for starting point guard Andre Miller.
    Source: Newsday.com

    The New York Knicks just figured out a way to give up everything but the coasters for a borderline franchise player and still be a couple of years away from being ready to compete for an NBA championship.

    In this case, a three-team, nine-player trade isn't worth what some are going to try to make you believe. The Knicks gave Denver a king's haul of three starters (Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton and Danilo Gallinari), a raw (but promising) 24-year-old 7-footer (Timofey Mozgov) and their 2014 first-round draft pick, yet the assumption will be that acquiring Carmelo Anthony will put New York right there with the Miami Heat in challenging the Boston Celtics for Eastern Conference supremacy.
    For the Nuggets, this was a best-case scenario. They didn't receive equal value for Anthony, but they got more than enough, including second-round picks in 2012 and 2013, which the Knicks had acquired from Golden State when the Warriors signed David Lee last summer.
    Source: ESPN.com

    The Knicks get the player they want now and don't seem to care that they got played as a way of making it all happen. They make the biggest trade in their history for Carmelo Anthony and don't seem to care that it costs them twice as much as it should have
    Source: NYdailynews.com

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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Yeah, effectively, the Knicks dealt Chandler and Gallinari for Melo and the cap space to sign Chandler. I am pretty sure every GM does that deal 100 times out of 100.

    What's wrong with the Knicks? They don't play defense. Any defense. They are atrocious. I've seen about 3 of their games during this skid and they just don't make any effort on that end of the floor. They actually remind me of watching the Raptors from the last couple of seasons. As opposed to Melo, I think the biggest issue is Stoudemire. He's slow and lethargic. That contract is going to kill the Knicks.
    It has been these last 10 games where the Knicks have struggled mightily on defense. On the season, the Knicks are 12th in opp/ppg and 18th in defensive rating. So they are about average on the season. But these stats were even better prior to February 20th when, surprise!, Carmelo returned.

    Over these last 10 games they are allowing well over 100 ppg and are atrocious as slaw pointed out.

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    I feel like the problem with the Knicks are defense as stated by almost everyone her, Melo, and Smith! Carmelo just doesn't like to pass the ball. The game against the 76ers, I saw almost 4 minutes of crappy offense in the third quarter where Carmelo and Smith are just shooting contested jumpshots! And now, apparently, Carmelo isn't getting along and having altercations with D'Antoni and basically the whole coaching staff. In the Bulls game, he didn't even want to be in the huddle a third quarter timeout. He's acting like a child and should blame himself for shooting like crazy and not distributing the ball when he's cold. He only had 1 basket in the 4th quarter. Another problem is Smith! I don't know why any team would really want him. He's a ball hog that doesn't shoot the ball intelligently. In the 76er game, almost all his jumpshots were well contested and yet he still takes the shot! He's a troublemaker for any team especially now that we know he like to tweet partially naked pictures of women on twitter. And as stated above, defense is always a problem with the Knicks.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It has been these last 10 games where the Knicks have struggled mightily on defense. On the season, the Knicks are 12th in opp/ppg and 18th in defensive rating. So they are about average on the season. But these stats were even better prior to February 20th when, surprise!, Carmelo returned.

    Over these last 10 games they are allowing well over 100 ppg and are atrocious as slaw pointed out.
    Saw this re-tweet that addressed what I was talking about above:

    Ian Begley ‏ @IanBegley
    @KBergCBS Apologies, correction: Since 2/20, #NYK scored 109.8 points per 100 possessions w/Melo off floor; 97.6 points per 100 w/him on

    Actually, just realized that is offensive. Oops. Either way, the Knicks are much better without Melo - regardless of how bad Amar'e is playing.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Saw this re-tweet that addressed what I was talking about above:




    Actually, just realized that is offensive. Oops. Either way, the Knicks are much better without Melo - regardless of how bad Amar'e is playing.
    Do you think Melo will eventually figure out how to play more effectively with the Knicks offensively and defensively? Or do you think that the Knicks would trade him this offseason?

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Melo is proving he's highly overrated. For all the flak LBJ gets and deserves, on the court he's good at involving his teammates. The Cavs never put great rosters around him and yet they typically overachieved with the exception of his last season there. James is a franchise player, he wouldn't allow this crap to happen if the Knicks were his team. Melo is proving he's not a franchise player and has been overvalued. He was in a very solid, consistent system in Denver and almost always had very good, prototypical PGs as floor generals. He doesn't have that PG in NYC. Franchise players find a way to overcome change and they offer inspiration, not self defeating language like he offered up yesterday to the press. You don't say you'll try to overcome the slump, you say you will. You don't share the blame with the team, you take it all. That's what the great leaders do. No doubt James isn't perfect either but he's light years ahead of Melo.

    Really I'm starting to think the Melo is no more a franchise player than the likes of Tracy McGrady. Flashy numbers and little else.

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    The Raps play the Knicks again fairly soon. How about our ragtag nonames give them a thumping (ok I'll go for a squeaker). That should drive the knowitalls in NY stir crazy. Radio talkshows there are musing about trading Melo now. Cant make this stuff up. I have always viewed CA as a selfish mefirst player. George Karl had to cajole him to play defense and share the ball and the stripes havent changed. He didnt win anything in Denver and so far is showing he wont with the Knicks. Maybe the Bobcats will have him.

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    What and break up a #1 overall pick contender? Never. If anything they're looking to add a few more low caliber players to further stack their roster.

    Melo needs to be in a "big market", his ego demands it. He's getting everything he asked for last year. I don't remember him focusing on winning in most of his comments while stringing everyone along in the trade saga. He had that in Denver, he just couldn't be the franchise plyer he needed to be to get them over the hump.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Really I'm starting to think the Melo is no more a franchise player than the likes of Tracy McGrady. Flashy numbers and little else.
    I'm not sure what the book on Melo will say. He did play on some good Denver teams and they got unlucky a couple times in the playoffs. But this Knicks experiment has been a disaster. That whole roster just doesn't work properly with him as a focus. In hindsight, they would have been better off waiting for Deron Williams but that was unknowable.

    Not that I really care. I mean, I hate the Knicks. And their fans. The Melo egg looks good on the collective Knick face...

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    I think Amare and Melo can never work. IMO, because guys like Dwayne Wade and Lebron James are distributors. Lebron is the best point forward in the game, and one of the best of all-time. Dwayne Wade is probably the best all-around shooting guard in the league, when they handle the ball, they share. That says a lot comparing those two games to Amare and Carmelo. Carmelo and Amare are ball stoppers, they are on the receiving end of a pass. Amare works that pick and roll and high-post isolation, same with Carmelo minus the pick-and-roll. I can tell you 95% of that time, when the offense isn't moving, it's because Carmelo or Amare are standing or have the ball in their hands trying to do something.

    If this struggle continues and don't make the playoffs, which I really believe will all happen, one has to go. That one player is Carmelo. You already have ball stoppers in J.R Smith and Amare Stoudemire. Lin and Amare can develop a pick-and-roll that can work to perfection.

    I don't believe OVERALL defense is a BIG problem, they're one of the most improved defensive squads this season along with us, but their struggle recently involves defense.

    Carmelo needs to be on a team where they are all distributors, cause I just don't see this roster experiment working out, until either Amare or Carmelo are sent out the door....

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    On paper New York should definitley be one of the better teams in the East! Chandler, Amare, and Melo in any NBA video game is championship material (Ratings in NBAlive08 Chandler: 86, Amare: 91, Melo:87) They have Iman shumpert, a standout rookie, and last years standout Landry fields. Linsanity should be their championship point guard (with all the hype around him) and last but not least J.R. smith who is always in the talks surrounding 6th man of the year awards! Overall this team has the superstar power, the strong bench, and a good coach. I think it is a complete mystery as to why they aren't doing well at all. I haven't watched their games (except Lins dagger) but even if Melo played TERRIBLY, there needs to be a larger reason as to why this team continues to fail!

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Seriously, I would dream of their roster! Yet they are so bad on court... Reminds me when I was hyped up about Calderon - Bosh - J.O with Bargs coming off the bench, I really really liked the team on paper, but simply no results!

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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    Do you think Melo will eventually figure out how to play more effectively with the Knicks offensively and defensively? Or do you think that the Knicks would trade him this offseason?
    I think D'Antoni is fired, Phil Jackson is brought in and they run the triangle. If Melo can't succeed in it, bye bye.


    Regardless of whether or not Phil Jackson is brought in, D'Antoni goes to the chopping block before Melo.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think D'Antoni is fired, Phil Jackson is brought in and they run the triangle. If Melo can't succeed in it, bye bye.


    Regardless of whether or not Phil Jackson is brought in, D'Antoni goes to the chopping block before Melo.
    Unfortunately that's the way it will be, even though Carmelo just can't run in a D'antoni system. I believe that he shouldn't be fired, it'll effect everyone on the team. More so Lin and Stoudemire.

    IMO, doesn't anyone think the point guard situation is still a need? Jeremy Lin has been like a Jerryd Bayless, again, just my opinion. It's not like he has had a HUGE impact on the team since, so I think the Knicks are still in need of a good point guard.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think D'Antoni is fired, Phil Jackson is brought in and they run the triangle. If Melo can't succeed in it, bye bye.


    Regardless of whether or not Phil Jackson is brought in, D'Antoni goes to the chopping block before Melo.
    Definitely. I think D'Antoni is on the hot seat right now. He probably would have already gotten fired earlier if it weren't for Linsanity, but I definitely think that he will get fired either some time this season or in the offseason.

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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    Definitely. I think D'Antoni is on the hot seat right now. He probably would have already gotten fired earlier if it weren't for Linsanity, but I definitely think that he will get fired either some time this season or in the offseason.
    Not to split hairs but his contract is up this off season. If he is not fired before the end of the year, he definitely will not be brought back, in my opinion.

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