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Thread: Buyer's remorse?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Why?

    Waiting
    Pros: Possibility of quality youngsters available on the cheap (but the Raptors will not be the only team insterested in those youngsters and may fail to land any).
    Cons: The players BryCo wants may no longer be available.

    I prefer to control my destiny and act early.
    i'm kind of thinking that most of these guys - or similar stop-gap players - would be available. maybe not these exact players, but guys of similar ilk. are we really expecting anything of substance out of them? if he's just looking to fill out the roster - and these signings are that to a T - then why not just wait a few minutes & see how the market plays out? OMG, they might miss the chance to sign anthony carter or rasual butler!?! heavens to betsy NO! where oh where would they ever be able to find comprable talent?
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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    That's a valid position; I just disagree with it.

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    I really liked Brewer coming out of College and thought he'd of been a nice fit on the Raps at the time. Loved his hustle and defence. Offensively he's still a little challenged and relies on his hops too much but he'd of fit in nice with that squad that needed youth and athletcsm at the wings. His injury history is a little scary but I have a feeling that some team will give him a chance and he'll blossom. I mean look at how he was jerked around in Minny (and who he was playing with), barely played with the Mavs and I bet his confidence is a little shot.

    I'd rather have CB over Forbes or Butler.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Rookie big_chris's Avatar
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    The difference in talent gap when choosing 1 - 5, and choosing 12 - 18 is franchise altering. Why take the risk? The right free agent signing, a couple young guy's emerging, and the right chemistry... and we have a team that could easily jump right on the treadmill.

    I'm happy with the direction BC went. We have an amnesty provision, and I believe we still have the TPE. If there is something worth doing, it can get done.
    Last edited by big_chris; Mon Dec 12th, 2011 at 02:42 PM. Reason: spelling error

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Odom is one and done probably.
    Odum has 2 years left on a 3 year deal with a $2M buyout if the 4th year option is not picked up.

  6. #26
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    No, he's in his final year but there is a team option which they most certainly will not opt to pick up because they're going after Deron Williams in the off-season.

    http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm

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    Raptors Republic Starter Edgar's Avatar
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    Back to the topic of Buyers Remorse - If BC dealt a protected 2nd rounder etc to the Mavs for Fernandez (which would be fine by me) what's stopping him? The fear of waiving the guaranteed vet minimum contracts of Butler or Carter?!?
    When Tom Chambers dunks an NBA player gets their hops...

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Edgar wrote: View Post
    Back to the topic of Buyers Remorse - If BC dealt a protected 2nd rounder etc to the Mavs for Fernandez (which would be fine by me) what's stopping him? The fear of waiving the guaranteed vet minimum contracts of Butler or Carter?!?
    The fear of having a player who is only still in the NBA because of FIBA/NBA contract rules causing a stink (remember the summer of 2010 and his desire to get out of Portland by any means necessary?). Fernandez would be a third string SG behind DD and Barbosa. No thanks.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The fear of having a player who is only still in the NBA because of FIBA/NBA contract rules causing a stink (remember the summer of 2010 and his desire to get out of Portland by any means necessary?). Fernandez would be a third string SG behind DD and Barbosa. No thanks.
    i agree in general that rudy could be a distraction, but i think he'd be able to get a significant amount more PT in TO than he did in POR, where he was fighting with roy & batum (among others, at various times), and his playing time really jumped around. his attitude (and play) didn't help his cause any...but to a degree, he was a victim of pritchard's never-ending accumulation of young talent. he's still got a lot of raw talent, and he's still plenty young to have a meaningful NBA career. FWIW, i don't mind that a player wants to play more (i'll take that over a guy who's content to sit on the bench, wave a towel, and cash his cheque), but i need to see his desire to play come out in the quality of his play in practice & in games.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    i agree in general that rudy could be a distraction, but i think he'd be able to get a significant amount more PT in TO than he did in POR, where he was fighting with roy & batum (among others, at various times), and his playing time really jumped around. his attitude (and play) didn't help his cause any...but to a degree, he was a victim of pritchard's never-ending accumulation of young talent. he's still got a lot of raw talent, and he's still plenty young to have a meaningful NBA career. FWIW, i don't mind that a player wants to play more (i'll take that over a guy who's content to sit on the bench, wave a towel, and cash his cheque), but i need to see his desire to play come out in the quality of his play in practice & in games.
    But what is the point for the Raptors? He has made it clear he intends to go back to Spain. In fact Real Madrid already has a contract with him that allows him to fulfill his contractual obligations in the NBA and then he will return to Spain to play for them.

  11. #31
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I read yesterday his agent is working on getting him out of the NBA right now.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

    Nuggs leaning towards matching Forbes' offer. door open for brewer?
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  13. #33
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Opens the door to one of the Reggies.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    i'm kind of thinking that most of these guys - or similar stop-gap players - would be available. maybe not these exact players, but guys of similar ilk. are we really expecting anything of substance out of them? if he's just looking to fill out the roster - and these signings are that to a T - then why not just wait a few minutes & see how the market plays out? OMG, they might miss the chance to sign anthony carter or rasual butler!?! heavens to betsy NO! where oh where would they ever be able to find comprable talent?

    They main reason why it's not worth waiting? Until they Signed Magoire they only had 9 guys for training camp. There are very few opportunities to practice during the year. What's the point of waiting around for a marginally better player who you are most likely only going to sign for a 1 year deal and who is most likely not going to be with the team long term? If we even had one or two more weeks until training camp started than i'd be more likely to say let's wait and see what becomes available, but with the season just around the corner, it's important (imo) to have as many bodies as you can in the gym as soon as possible and THAT is what trumps and advantage you could gain by waiting.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    They main reason why it's not worth waiting? Until they Signed Magoire they only had 9 guys for training camp. There are very few opportunities to practice during the year. What's the point of waiting around for a marginally better player who you are most likely only going to sign for a 1 year deal and who is most likely not going to be with the team long term? If we even had one or two more weeks until training camp started than i'd be more likely to say let's wait and see what becomes available, but with the season just around the corner, it's important (imo) to have as many bodies as you can in the gym as soon as possible and THAT is what trumps and advantage you could gain by waiting.
    meh...this whole season is training camp. waiting an extra few days to fill out the roster isn't going to change anything...well, it may delay them coming together, which won't help them win games and OH MY GOD THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. i know we're supposed to reject the idea of tanking, but the reality is, it's the best/fastest way to get back to respectability, and hopefully from there, to being a contender. and by 'tanking,' i don't mean purposefully trying to lose every game - it's simply a matter of putting off making moves that would produce immediate results and focusing instead on planning for the future & developing the talent you've already got.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

    Nuggs leaning towards matching Forbes' offer. door open for brewer?
    I'd prefer Reggie Wililams but would not be distraught over Brewer.

    Raul Barrigon: Nuggets are leaning toward matching the Raptors' offer for Gary Forbes, one source told HoopsHype. Could happen as early as today. Twitter
    Whatever they do they will have to make up their mind today. My understanding is the paperwork for the offer was done on Saturday.

  17. #37
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    meh...this whole season is training camp. waiting an extra few days to fill out the roster isn't going to change anything...well, it may delay them coming together, which won't help them win games and OH MY GOD THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. i know we're supposed to reject the idea of tanking, but the reality is, it's the best/fastest way to get back to respectability, and hopefully from there, to being a contender. and by 'tanking,' i don't mean purposefully trying to lose every game - it's simply a matter of putting off making moves that would produce immediate results and focusing instead on planning for the future & developing the talent you've already got.
    If the point is tanking, as you say, then what's the point of waiting to sign better players? Shouldn't your argument be that coangelo would have been better off waiting to see who was available, and then sign the worst players available (as long as said players don't have a bad attitude)?

    I agree that the whole season is basically a training camp, but based on my limited experiencing (coaching HS basketball) it is really really really difficult to run a practice with less than 10 players. I also think that training camp is an important time to instill attitudes and get players to buy into new philosophies. If that means that it adds two to three wins in the win column this year i'm not going to complain.

    I would also point out that you can lose a lot of games doing the right things BEFORE you start winning games doing the right things. I'd rather the process of doing the right things starts as soon as possible.

    I'd be fine with having the worst record in the league. I'd also be fine if we made the playoffs (which i don't think we will). What I care more than either of these two outcomes is HOW we are playing. Ideally, we are playing the right kind of basketball but still lose.

    If I had to choose between team cohesion and winning more games or low team cohesion and losing a lot of games, I'll take team cohesion, but again that's just my opinion.

    To me, getting the guys to play the right kind of basketball is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing, and I think that task is easier/more likely to happen by maximizing available practice time and by getting your team together as soon as possible, not by waiting to see who comes available.

    ps. I also just don't it's BC's personality, to look back at a missed opportunity and say "I wish I would have done something different" for better or worse i think he is more likely to say "that didn't work out as well as I expected it to, but what can I do now to address/change the situation moving forward"
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Tue Dec 13th, 2011 at 02:13 PM.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Default Brewer/Rudy going to Denver?

    ESPN is reporting that Rudy is going to Denver, and they are interested in Brewer as well:

    HoopsHype's own @BarriHoopsHype confirms Rudy's Denver-bound. Mavs known to still have high hopes for Brewer but Denver in hunt for him, too
    ESPN sources: In most advanced scenario, Nuggets offer to take Rudy F and Brewer from Dallas into cap space for future draft considerations
    Source: @ESPNSteinLine

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    If the point is tanking, as you say, then what's the point of waiting to sign better players? Shouldn't your argument be that coangelo would have been better off waiting to see who was available, and then sign the worst players available (as long as said players don't have a bad attitude)?

    I agree that the whole season is basically a training camp, but based on my limited experiencing (coaching HS basketball) it is really really really difficult to run a practice with less than 10 players. I also think that training camp is an important time to instill attitudes and get players to buy into new philosophies. If that means that it adds two to three wins in the win column this year i'm not going to complain.

    I would also point out that you can lose a lot of games doing the right things BEFORE you start winning games doing the right things. I'd rather the process of doing the right things starts as soon as possible.

    I'd be fine with having the worst record in the league. I'd also be fine if we made the playoffs (which i don't think we will). What I care more than either of these two outcomes is HOW we are playing. Ideally, we are playing the right kind of basketball but still lose.

    If I had to choose between team cohesion and winning more games or low team cohesion and losing a lot of games, I'll take team cohesion, but again that's just my opinion.

    To me, getting the guys to play the right kind of basketball is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing, and I think that task is easier/more likely to happen by maximizing available practice time and by getting your team together as soon as possible, not by waiting to see who comes available.

    ps. I also just don't it's BC's personality, to look back at a missed opportunity and say "I wish I would have done something different" for better or worse i think he is more likely to say "that didn't work out as well as I expected it to, but what can I do now to address/change the situation moving forward"
    both would have fit the grand plan though - acquiring young players who have yet to establish themselves as bona fide NBA players, and giving them an opportunity. i don't for a second think that either are good enough to make much of a difference, certainly not on a team like the raptors...but i'd prefer to see guys like that getting PT than vets who've already had their opportunity & who are well-known commodities. nothing against vets, mind you, they are important. just don't see the point. if you've got roster spots & the $ to blow on guys who have no future in the L, then might as well take a chance on guys who might actually have a future? worst case, it doesn't work out (i.e. they don't fit into the long-term plans), but at least young players like brewer & (to a lesser extent, rudy) still have value on the market, and could be flipped into something at the TD.

    i don't want to suggest that i'm up in arms over BC's approach over the last week or so...i like that he's clearly looking forward to the future, and his signings so far have been simple stop-gaps to fill the roster. my whole argument is that the likes of butler or carter will be there later. sure, go get gray (not sure why magloire was signed, but oh well) & make an attempt at forbes - low risk, medium reward. just think that with all the activity that was/is going on, with guys being amnestied, & others being traded for TPEs, picks etc., that a little patience might have proven beneficial. the nuggs, apparently, just acquired brewer & fernandez for a future 2nd rd pick, using melo's TPE (something we could have offered as well)...doesn't having those guys sound a little more enticing - both short & long term - than rasual butler and the rest of the pu pu platter?
    Last edited by yertu damkule; Tue Dec 13th, 2011 at 07:18 PM.
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