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Thread: Crystal Ball

  1. #21
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    i applaud your enthusiasm, but i have to be skeptical that bargs will bring in a lottery pick, especially in a deep draft such as this. yes, he's got talent, and i'm sure that there will always be teams who value what he brings - especially lottery teams (because, y'know, they're lottery teams for a reason). but i really can't see him bringing back a lottery pick, given what he is as a player, and the cap hit whatever team acquiring him would be taking.

    if bargs is dealt, i have to think that the raps would have to take back a fairly sizable contract (on a fairly mediocre player) in order to get a lottery pick as part of the deal.
    Good points. How about trading him to a veteran team that is trying to be good this year but ultimately ends up having a dissapointing season? I'm sure at the start of the 2011 Utah, Phoenix and Houston all thought they would make the playoffs but didn't.

    Obviously this is a gamble because there is no guarantee that these teams have poor seasons however for arguments sake how about employing a strategy of being proactive and making a move for AB with Denver, San Antonio (highly unlikely), Atlanta, or Portland and hope they desperately don't make the playoffs? Maybe NJ would be interested as their owner has deeper pockets than most and seems intent on adding talent now. Send us back Outlaw and their pick (all wishful thinking of course). It all depends on if there is mutual interest, however we know BC can sell and if they think that he might be a piece to help their team it might be worth a shot. He's also said that Andrea is the player he gets the most calls about. If so, this should indicate that there would be willing trade partners that are interested in acquiring him.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    fair point. good point about trades as well. Bring on the (pre)season!

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I was just looking over the FA crop as it looks now according to espn's free agent tracker...I really think people shouldn't get their hopes up about the cap space landing an all-star. I'm going to keep thinking of it as flexibility. Maybe part gets used in a trade. Maybe we make a big trade without it and use the space we have to sign a solid player to round out the team. Maybe our young players grow and we land a star in the draft too, so we just use it on a couple of better veterans than the ones we've got now. I don't know, since it's so early on.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s...eeAgents-11-12

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I was just looking over the FA crop as it looks now according to espn's free agent tracker...I really think people shouldn't get their hopes up about the cap space landing an all-star. I'm going to keep thinking of it as flexibility. Maybe part gets used in a trade. Maybe we make a big trade without it and use the space we have to sign a solid player to round out the team. Maybe our young players grow and we land a star in the draft too, so we just use it on a couple of better veterans than the ones we've got now. I don't know, since it's so early on.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s...eeAgents-11-12
    Absolutely right it is early but......

    Personally, I am hoping Memphis get knocked out of the playoffs in the first round, Heisley says, "I can't afford 3 max players and a first round exit" and Toronto comes calling saving him $50M over the next 3 seasons.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Absolutely right it is early but......

    Personally, I am hoping Memphis get knocked out of the playoffs in the first round, Heisley says, "I can't afford 3 max players and a first round exit" and Toronto comes calling saving him $50M over the next 3 seasons.
    Yeah, and that's exactly the type of random stuff that might have to happen. I don't see an obvious answer in free agency, so a lot will have to play out to see who we can scam into 'unloading' players onto us. If we can get a great player somehow that way I'd be happy.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Absolutely right it is early but......

    Personally, I am hoping Memphis get knocked out of the playoffs in the first round, Heisley says, "I can't afford 3 max players and a first round exit" and Toronto comes calling saving him $50M over the next 3 seasons.
    I'm assuming we're talking about Gay?

    I wouldn't mind Heisley coming to that realization midway through this year. Heisley saying, "I've got 3 max players who don't know how to co-exist, so I might as well get rid of the guy who wasn't part of our playoff run".

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I'm assuming we're talking about Gay?

    I wouldn't mind Heisley coming to that realization midway through this year. Heisley saying, "I've got 3 max players who don't know how to co-exist, so I might as well get rid of the guy who wasn't part of our playoff run".
    Sorry, yes, talking Gay.

    I don't want to add Gay this year if at all possible. Draft night trade or summer trade would be great. I do not want to add any more wins. If that is considered tanking, I apologize.

  8. #28
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I'm assuming we're talking about Gay?

    I wouldn't mind Heisley coming to that realization midway through this year. Heisley saying, "I've got 3 max players who don't know how to co-exist, so I might as well get rid of the guy who wasn't part of our playoff run".
    +1

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Sorry, yes, talking Gay.
    Not that there's anything wrong with that :P

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't want to add Gay this year if at all possible. Draft night trade or summer trade would be great. I do not want to add any more wins. If that is considered tanking, I apologize.
    I see your point, but I think I would lean towards pulling the trigger this year (especially if at the trade deadline). Such a move would still keep us in the lottery. I think the talent infusion coming from Gay plus a 10-14 pick would be greater than a 1-5 pick alone.

    In other words, the possibility of Gay + Kabongo excite me more than Harrison Barnes.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Unfortunately Gay is going to cost the Raptors. Gay is a huge asset for them. They will probably expect a first rounder. Would you be willing to give up our pick for Gay? Assuming it is the only pick we have?

  11. #31
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Not that there's anything wrong with that :P



    I see your point, but I think I would lean towards pulling the trigger this year (especially if at the trade deadline). Such a move would still keep us in the lottery. I think the talent infusion coming from Gay plus a 10-14 pick would be greater than a 1-5 pick alone.

    In other words, the possibility of Gay + Kabongo excite me more than Harrison Barnes.
    Strongly disagree with your here. Not necessarily the Barnes part, but teams generally only go as far as their best player. If the Raptors have a chance to get a true elite franchise player, that's far better than having two All-Stars. Memphis and Atlanta are the perfect examples of teams with All-Stars, but no true franchise player. I definitely don't want to copy that.
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  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Strongly disagree with your here. Not necessarily the Barnes part, but teams generally only go as far as their best player. If the Raptors have a chance to get a true elite franchise player, that's far better than having two All-Stars. Memphis and Atlanta are the perfect examples of teams with All-Stars, but no true franchise player. I definitely don't want to copy that.
    I get what you're saying. But I suppose I just haven't seen enough from Davis or Drummond to without-a-doubt say they're franchise-changing players. They're both projects who may never reach their potential (unlike Duncan, LeBron, Shaq, Griffin, Howard, etc. who were NBA-ready immediately)

    But then again, I could change my mind once the NCAA season wraps up.

  13. #33
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Strongly disagree with your here. Not necessarily the Barnes part, but teams generally only go as far as their best player. If the Raptors have a chance to get a true elite franchise player, that's far better than having two All-Stars. Memphis and Atlanta are the perfect examples of teams with All-Stars, but no true franchise player. I definitely don't want to copy that.
    The thing is that not only can't you not be sure that Davis or Drummond are franchise players, there is also no guarantee that you will be in a position to draft them. More ping-pong balls help but don't necessarily ensure the top pick in the draft.

    It's early, but so far the only players that appear to be instant game changers based on their play (and it's early) is Lamb and Davis and for Davis it's on 1 end of the court.

  14. #34
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I get what you're saying. But I suppose I just haven't seen enough from Davis or Drummond to without-a-doubt say they're franchise-changing players. They're both projects who may never reach their potential (unlike Duncan, LeBron, Shaq, Griffin, Howard, etc. who were NBA-ready immediately)

    But then again, I could change my mind once the NCAA season wraps up.
    I'm VERY high on Davis, right now. I haven't see enough of Drummond to really judge, but from a physical standpoint, he's certainly tantalizing. And there's a good chance another player will step up before the end of the year.
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    The thing is that not only can't you not be sure that Davis or Drummond are franchise players, there is also no guarantee that you will be in a position to draft them. More ping-pong balls help but don't necessarily ensure the top pick in the draft.

    It's early, but so far the only players that appear to be instant game changers based on their play (and it's early) is Lamb and Davis and for Davis it's on 1 end of the court.
    No, there's no guarantee you'll get a top 2 or 3 pick, but why make it harder? More ping pong balls don't necessarily ensure a top 3 pick, but it does gives you better odds. At this point, Gay isn't a franchise player, so you're hamstringing your future for the sake of a player who can't actually lead your team anywhere. TO me, it's settling and that's not way to build a team, in my opinion.

    I have no problem with going after Gay, but I'd rather wait until after the lottery when we know exactly where the Raptors are going to draft.
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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Unfortunately Gay is going to cost the Raptors. Gay is a huge asset for them. They will probably expect a first rounder. Would you be willing to give up our pick for Gay? Assuming it is the only pick we have?
    In 2012, no. 2013 absolutely - 2015 too and the right to flip in 2014.. Maybe we wait until July to pull the trigger of the deal that will likely never, ever happen.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Dec 13th, 2011 at 05:57 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I'm VERY high on Davis, right now. I haven't see enough of Drummond to really judge, but from a physical standpoint, he's certainly tantalizing. And there's a good chance another player will step up before the end of the year.
    Did you see Kentucky versus Indiana by any chance?

    Davis had foul trouble and it limited not only his playing time but Kentucky as well.

    Davis is such an impact on the game when he is on the court. Every defensive rebound that went up was essentially his and the psychological factor of shooting anywhere in his vicinity was obvious on the opponents. Offensively, he is still a work in progress but, as a passer/facilitator, he is tremendous and the spacing he helps creates due to the constant threat of an alley oop certainly helps his teammates.

    It will be interesting to see how he plays for the next few months.

    Dick Vitale had a good point about the foul trouble and really stooopid fouls. Essentially he said (paraphrasing), "This is his 8th collegiate game. He is going to make dumb mistakes and he'll figure it out. He is an unbelievable talent." I have to agree and we need only look to last year at Harrison Barnes as a guy who needed around 15 games to figure it all out.

  18. #38
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    It's early, but so far the only players that appear to be instant game changers based on their play (and it's early) is Lamb and Davis and for Davis it's on 1 end of the court.
    The thing about Davis, though, is that he hasn't had a chance to show much on the offensive end. He's a superb passer, for his size, has very good handles for a guy his size, and has pretty good range. Right now, he doesn't make much of an impact on the offensive end, but I have a feeling that will change. I don't think it's going to be right away, but who really cares. I care about who's going to be the best player five years from now, not who is going to make the most immediate impact.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Did you see Kentucky versus Indiana by any chance?

    Davis had foul trouble and it limited not only his playing time but Kentucky as well.

    Davis is such an impact on the game when he is on the court. Every defensive rebound that went up was essentially his and the psychological factor of shooting anywhere in his vicinity was obvious on the opponents. Offensively, he is still a work in progress but, as a passer/facilitator, he is tremendous and the spacing he helps creates due to the constant threat of an alley oop certainly helps his teammates.

    It will be interesting to see how he plays for the next few months.

    Dick Vitale had a good point about the foul trouble and really stooopid fouls. Essentially he said (paraphrasing), "This is his 8th collegiate game. He is going to make dumb mistakes and he'll figure it out. He is an unbelievable talent." I have to agree and we need only look to last year at Harrison Barnes as a guy who needed around 15 games to figure it all out.
    Missed that game, but I agree. Plus the fact that he kind of came out of nowhere, and didn't come from a big school, so it's a VERY big learning curve for him.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    No, there's no guarantee you'll get a top 2 or 3 pick, but why make it harder? More ping pong balls don't necessarily ensure a top 3 pick, but it does gives you better odds. At this point, Gay isn't a franchise player, so you're hamstringing your future for the sake of a player who can't actually lead your team anywhere. TO me, it's settling and that's not way to build a team, in my opinion.

    I have no problem with going after Gay, but I'd rather wait until after the lottery when we know exactly where the Raptors are going to draft.
    I would also add that while I agree Gay is not a franchise player he is being paid like one. This may not be conducive to the salary rates being redefined by the new cba especially 2 yrs. hence...and what if the cap gets lowered? I understand this is but the start of the new cba but I also notice that West could only command a 2 yr. deal at 10 per. And he was being compared favourably to Bosh a couple of yrs ago. Flexibility of cap must not be surrendered unless the team is truly sure of the acquisition, the price reasonable and the timing is right.

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