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  • #31
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Not that there's anything wrong with that :P



    I see your point, but I think I would lean towards pulling the trigger this year (especially if at the trade deadline). Such a move would still keep us in the lottery. I think the talent infusion coming from Gay plus a 10-14 pick would be greater than a 1-5 pick alone.

    In other words, the possibility of Gay + Kabongo excite me more than Harrison Barnes.
    Strongly disagree with your here. Not necessarily the Barnes part, but teams generally only go as far as their best player. If the Raptors have a chance to get a true elite franchise player, that's far better than having two All-Stars. Memphis and Atlanta are the perfect examples of teams with All-Stars, but no true franchise player. I definitely don't want to copy that.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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    • #32
      Tim W. wrote: View Post
      Strongly disagree with your here. Not necessarily the Barnes part, but teams generally only go as far as their best player. If the Raptors have a chance to get a true elite franchise player, that's far better than having two All-Stars. Memphis and Atlanta are the perfect examples of teams with All-Stars, but no true franchise player. I definitely don't want to copy that.
      I get what you're saying. But I suppose I just haven't seen enough from Davis or Drummond to without-a-doubt say they're franchise-changing players. They're both projects who may never reach their potential (unlike Duncan, LeBron, Shaq, Griffin, Howard, etc. who were NBA-ready immediately)

      But then again, I could change my mind once the NCAA season wraps up.

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      • #33
        Tim W. wrote: View Post
        Strongly disagree with your here. Not necessarily the Barnes part, but teams generally only go as far as their best player. If the Raptors have a chance to get a true elite franchise player, that's far better than having two All-Stars. Memphis and Atlanta are the perfect examples of teams with All-Stars, but no true franchise player. I definitely don't want to copy that.
        The thing is that not only can't you not be sure that Davis or Drummond are franchise players, there is also no guarantee that you will be in a position to draft them. More ping-pong balls help but don't necessarily ensure the top pick in the draft.

        It's early, but so far the only players that appear to be instant game changers based on their play (and it's early) is Lamb and Davis and for Davis it's on 1 end of the court.

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        • #34
          Nilanka wrote: View Post
          I get what you're saying. But I suppose I just haven't seen enough from Davis or Drummond to without-a-doubt say they're franchise-changing players. They're both projects who may never reach their potential (unlike Duncan, LeBron, Shaq, Griffin, Howard, etc. who were NBA-ready immediately)

          But then again, I could change my mind once the NCAA season wraps up.
          I'm VERY high on Davis, right now. I haven't see enough of Drummond to really judge, but from a physical standpoint, he's certainly tantalizing. And there's a good chance another player will step up before the end of the year.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
          Follow me on Twitter.

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          • #35
            sleepz wrote: View Post
            The thing is that not only can't you not be sure that Davis or Drummond are franchise players, there is also no guarantee that you will be in a position to draft them. More ping-pong balls help but don't necessarily ensure the top pick in the draft.

            It's early, but so far the only players that appear to be instant game changers based on their play (and it's early) is Lamb and Davis and for Davis it's on 1 end of the court.
            No, there's no guarantee you'll get a top 2 or 3 pick, but why make it harder? More ping pong balls don't necessarily ensure a top 3 pick, but it does gives you better odds. At this point, Gay isn't a franchise player, so you're hamstringing your future for the sake of a player who can't actually lead your team anywhere. TO me, it's settling and that's not way to build a team, in my opinion.

            I have no problem with going after Gay, but I'd rather wait until after the lottery when we know exactly where the Raptors are going to draft.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
            Follow me on Twitter.

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            • #36
              planetmars wrote: View Post
              Unfortunately Gay is going to cost the Raptors. Gay is a huge asset for them. They will probably expect a first rounder. Would you be willing to give up our pick for Gay? Assuming it is the only pick we have?
              In 2012, no. 2013 absolutely - 2015 too and the right to flip in 2014.. Maybe we wait until July to pull the trigger of the deal that will likely never, ever happen.
              Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Dec 13, 2011, 06:57 PM.

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              • #37
                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                I'm VERY high on Davis, right now. I haven't see enough of Drummond to really judge, but from a physical standpoint, he's certainly tantalizing. And there's a good chance another player will step up before the end of the year.
                Did you see Kentucky versus Indiana by any chance?

                Davis had foul trouble and it limited not only his playing time but Kentucky as well.

                Davis is such an impact on the game when he is on the court. Every defensive rebound that went up was essentially his and the psychological factor of shooting anywhere in his vicinity was obvious on the opponents. Offensively, he is still a work in progress but, as a passer/facilitator, he is tremendous and the spacing he helps creates due to the constant threat of an alley oop certainly helps his teammates.

                It will be interesting to see how he plays for the next few months.

                Dick Vitale had a good point about the foul trouble and really stooopid fouls. Essentially he said (paraphrasing), "This is his 8th collegiate game. He is going to make dumb mistakes and he'll figure it out. He is an unbelievable talent." I have to agree and we need only look to last year at Harrison Barnes as a guy who needed around 15 games to figure it all out.

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                • #38
                  sleepz wrote: View Post
                  It's early, but so far the only players that appear to be instant game changers based on their play (and it's early) is Lamb and Davis and for Davis it's on 1 end of the court.
                  The thing about Davis, though, is that he hasn't had a chance to show much on the offensive end. He's a superb passer, for his size, has very good handles for a guy his size, and has pretty good range. Right now, he doesn't make much of an impact on the offensive end, but I have a feeling that will change. I don't think it's going to be right away, but who really cares. I care about who's going to be the best player five years from now, not who is going to make the most immediate impact.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                  Follow me on Twitter.

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                  • #39
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    Did you see Kentucky versus Indiana by any chance?

                    Davis had foul trouble and it limited not only his playing time but Kentucky as well.

                    Davis is such an impact on the game when he is on the court. Every defensive rebound that went up was essentially his and the psychological factor of shooting anywhere in his vicinity was obvious on the opponents. Offensively, he is still a work in progress but, as a passer/facilitator, he is tremendous and the spacing he helps creates due to the constant threat of an alley oop certainly helps his teammates.

                    It will be interesting to see how he plays for the next few months.

                    Dick Vitale had a good point about the foul trouble and really stooopid fouls. Essentially he said (paraphrasing), "This is his 8th collegiate game. He is going to make dumb mistakes and he'll figure it out. He is an unbelievable talent." I have to agree and we need only look to last year at Harrison Barnes as a guy who needed around 15 games to figure it all out.
                    Missed that game, but I agree. Plus the fact that he kind of came out of nowhere, and didn't come from a big school, so it's a VERY big learning curve for him.
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                    Follow me on Twitter.

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                    • #40
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      No, there's no guarantee you'll get a top 2 or 3 pick, but why make it harder? More ping pong balls don't necessarily ensure a top 3 pick, but it does gives you better odds. At this point, Gay isn't a franchise player, so you're hamstringing your future for the sake of a player who can't actually lead your team anywhere. TO me, it's settling and that's not way to build a team, in my opinion.

                      I have no problem with going after Gay, but I'd rather wait until after the lottery when we know exactly where the Raptors are going to draft.
                      I would also add that while I agree Gay is not a franchise player he is being paid like one. This may not be conducive to the salary rates being redefined by the new cba especially 2 yrs. hence...and what if the cap gets lowered? I understand this is but the start of the new cba but I also notice that West could only command a 2 yr. deal at 10 per. And he was being compared favourably to Bosh a couple of yrs ago. Flexibility of cap must not be surrendered unless the team is truly sure of the acquisition, the price reasonable and the timing is right.

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