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Thread: Rumour: Jose & Amir for Caron Butler & Jarvis Crittenton

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default Rumour: Jose & Amir for Caron Butler & Jarvis Crittenton

    Take it for what's its worth seeing where its coming from (The RealGM) but this cool cat says his "sources" are legit. I guess we'll see how legit they actually are.

    Hey guys, as you all know I get legit inside sources within the raptors organization, been posting here for many years but the only time i do post is when I do get inside source information that I can share with my realgm family (u can track down my previous posts' some of the inside scoop i shared actually did go through). So the latest scoop is that washington offered us butler and crittenton for amir and jose, however BC doesnt want to give up Amir or pick up crittenton in a deal. BC is really high on Amir and says he will do anything it takes to lock him up this summer. BC made a counter offer of Rasho, calderon, and a 2nd rounder for butler and boykins but washington declined, however Bryan and Ernie is still going back and forth with offers. Personnel are really high on this deal and feel raptors can easily make it to the eastern conference finals if this trade does go through. Guys, get ready for a busy forum from now til deadline, I was told that there is a 75% chance BC makes a deal between now and deadline. There are many offers that BC does have on the table that I will try and find out and share with you guys. Take care guys!!
    Raptorgenius7
    Would love to have Caron playing the #2 spot for us. Could you imagine a Jack, Butler, Hedo, Bosh & Bargnani line-up? WOW

    Source - Click here

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dark Knight's Avatar
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    I love everything about this deal exept that Amir goes the other way. I somehow Washington would go for a Jose+Evans+pick for Butler, we'd be set.
    "Don't expect anything unless you give everything."

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    Who's going to run the second unit if Calderon isn't there?

    Why in the world is it a good idea to send DDR to the bench?

    In my view, if you're going to restaff the shooting guard position, you have to trade DDR, because what if he develops into a player like J-Rich (which he will)? He would demand more pt than the Raps can give him.

    I'd love to restaff some of the bench positions, and the small forward spot, but at this point Calderon is tearing up the bad guys off the bench and that's very valuable.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Who's going to run the second unit if Calderon isn't there?

    Why in the world is it a good idea to send DDR to the bench?

    In my view, if you're going to restaff the shooting guard position, you have to trade DDR, because what if he develops into a player like J-Rich (which he will)? He would demand more pt than the Raps can give him.

    I'd love to restaff some of the bench positions, and the small forward spot, but at this point Calderon is tearing up the bad guys off the bench and that's very valuable.
    Who knows? Maybe they go with Bargnani, Bosh, Butler, DeRozan and Turkoglu in the starting five? Maybe its not a bad thing for DeMar to come off the bench? It didn't hurt T-Mac. Also, another thing you need to be considering is that by doing the deal they get a guy who can give you 20PPG and play good defense. Butler is a star... A borderline all-star. Most teams in the league don't have a great PG tandem like Jack/Calderon. Just look at the last two finals teams, the Lakers and Magic. If you can make a deal the brings you in a big time name with a manageable contract who can fit a weakness then i think you do it.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie detour's Avatar
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    Now I'll admit that I'm a Jose fan, but can any of us honestly say that we'd win last night's game with Banks taking up Jose's playing time? I have no doubt in my mind that if Jose and Jarret can coexist, we have the best 48 minutes of point guard play in the NBA easy. We can expect solid play from Butler, but he's not exactly young anymore and we aren't losing much from having DeRozan play, especially if he keeps playing as he has of late. Amir Johnson may have been struggling lately but we can't let his potential get away. If we got Caron Butler, we'd have slightly less than we would if we retained Calderon. We'd only have him for the rest of this year and next year, which means that we'd be sacrificing a legit point guard and a wonderful big man prospect for a hurried two season run at a championship while stunting DeRozan's growth. I say we don't pull the trigger on this deal, even if we may be more competitive the next two years, we won't be happy about this deal if we let him walk for nothing.

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Most teams in the league don't have a great PG tandem like Jack/Calderon. Just look at the last two finals teams, the Lakers and Magic. If you can make a deal the brings you in a big time name with a manageable contract who can fit a weakness then i think you do it.
    The Lakers have Kobe and a serviceable Fisher. Kobe can find his own shot and win games on his own. The Magic had Hedo and Nelson, but every play of theirs has the opponents thinking of Dwight, which makes those around him better. The Raptors have no one except Bosh, who is not in Dwight's class, no offense to him. Now, you mention that we'll be addressing a weakness in defense, but at this point, Amir Johnson is one of our best defenders. He also addresses a weakness in rebounding and hustle, even if the latter isn't quantitative. Butler is a great player that can really help the team but I think Jose and Amir are too valuable to the team's success to let go. Remember the last time we considered our two point guards a strength? We let one go and the next season, it's a weakness. The situation is similar here, but there are no ego problems so far between the two. DeRozan is emerging and I don't think that we should fix something that isn't totally broken.

    However, the only reason that I would want to see this deal is because it would probably convince Bosh that we're serious. But, as someone mentioned earlier, I'd rather give away Reggie than Amir at this point.
    Last edited by detour; Sat Jan 16th, 2010 at 11:24 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dark Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Who knows? Maybe they go with Bargnani, Bosh, Butler, DeRozan and Turkoglu in the starting five? Maybe its not a bad thing for DeMar to come off the bench? It didn't hurt T-Mac. Also, another thing you need to be considering is that by doing the deal they get a guy who can give you 20PPG and play good defense. Butler is a star... A borderline all-star. Most teams in the league don't have a great PG tandem like Jack/Calderon. Just look at the last two finals teams, the Lakers and Magic. If you can make a deal the brings you in a big time name with a manageable contract who can fit a weakness then i think you do it.
    T-Mac ended up stabbing the Raps in the back because he didnt want to play with his cousin.
    "Don't expect anything unless you give everything."

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Banks wouldn't have to take up Jose's time. Jack plays more and Turkoglu takes on the role he had in Orlando, quarterback when the starting PG isn't on the floor.

    Quote Dark Knight wrote: View Post
    T-Mac ended up stabbing the Raps in the back because he didnt want to play with his cousin.
    T-Mac didn't stab the Raptors in the back. He decided to leave and he did so in a professional manner. T-Mac's problem was that he didn't want to be in VC's shadow, he wanted to be the "man".

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dark Knight's Avatar
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    Still, I'd rather DD not decide to leave the Raps for another team to be the man.
    "Don't expect anything unless you give everything."

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    I rather have Turk + Rasho/POB = Butler + w/e

    Calderon is a GOAT...joking, the reason i want Calderon on the raptors is his consistency offensively, TO, assist, safe (meaning in crunch time he will make it happen) and PASSION!

    Starting lineup
    PG: Jack or Calderon / SF: Derozan/ SG: Butler/ C: Bargnani/ PF: Chris Bosh

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Starter Gurk's Avatar
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    I love Jose too much to see him leave. I'd rather see Turk get traded then Jose
    Last name ever, first name greatest

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    I don't see what we gain with Javaris Crittenton coming aboard, but I LOVE the idea of Butler coming back here. Calderon is good, but he is not the kind of player that will convince Bosh to stay. Butler IS and also has a very manageable contract for what he brings to the table (unlike Calderon's escalating zillion dollar contract). Admittedly, it will throw a bit of a wrench into how the lineups work but the biggest draw for me is never seeing 4th Q TURCACK lineups ever again. If Calderon gets moved, I guess Jack/Butler/Turk/Bosh/Bargs start but then you could have Belinelli at PG with DDR, Turk playing point forward, Amir (there's gotta be some way we can keep him because Washington should be entering firesale mode any second now) and Bosh/Bargs. As an additional bonus, Butler CAN play SF very adequately, so he can play when Turk sits. As I'd proposed earlier, Calderon for Butler straight up is my ideal scenario, but we'll see what happens, if anything.

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    If we give up Amir, i would like to see us getting McGee in return.
    I wouldnt mind doing a Turk for Butler swap, but i think Washington would.
    Im not too thrilled to send Derozan to the bench...

  13. #13
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    If Washington want a ball handler why not take Turk instead of Calderon?

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Ion66's Avatar
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    Quote Gurk wrote: View Post
    I love Jose too much to see him leave. I'd rather see Turk get traded then Jose
    Which leaves Jack and Banks. If you go the other route and trade Jose first, it would be a chance to see how Turk really does in a PG role beofre making a decision on the guy with the bigger contract.

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    We all know what Calderon can do, but Turk not so much (in the raptor team). There is a risk behind having Turk on a raptor team...the whole media thing about Turk is lack in production is due to Jose/Jack having the ball in their hands all the time might be exaggerated ...

    What happen if Jose leaves and Turk is under-performing? in result:
    1) We lost a pg tandem and pg depth is lost again
    2) We will Have an overpaid useless SF that does not rebound and score a lot...for 5 years!
    3) Did i mention Turk is almost 30 who has the worst stamina in the whole NBA

  16. #16
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    I like this move because we:
    a) We get more out of Turk
    b) Add a solid defender/scorer at the 2 spot.
    c) Exchange Calderon's longterm contract for Caronimo's short one.
    d) Get a legit SG/SF for DDR to practice against and speed his growth.

    However:
    a) I do not want to give up Amir (Amir is simply awesome; consider how we can sub him out for either Bosh or Bargs w/o hurting our production. Given his limited offense, this should tell you how good a defender he is..)
    b) Trade like this means no minutes for one of Belli and Weems.

    Ideally, we could give them Wright or POB instead of Amir. Also, Belli is a bit more versatile than Weems (can play some PG), so I suspect Weems' minutes would take the biggest hit.

    Thoughts?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Jarvis, isn't that the idiot that actually brought a loaded weapon to the locker room? NO THANKS! eventually they are going to suspend him too so it will be useless.

    Throw in Nick Young instead.

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    It would obviously be great to have a player like Butler on our team, but having a good point guard tandem can be such a huge advantage. Banks played well in Jose's absence, but we were just hoping that he didn't screw things up while he was on the court (which thankfully he didn't). We lack fire power off the bench from our guards, and last game, Jose showed us how effective he can be, and how smoothly things operate when he's floor general. I really think that having two good point guards is almost as good as having one elite point guard, because you can ride the hot hand and play the more favorable matchup.

    No idea if the teams would be interested, and I'm really not a fan of making up trade offers, but here's a crazy one that I think has some legs.

    Toronto trades - Turkoglu, Wright
    Toronto receives - Butler, Oberto

    Washington trades - Butler, Oberto, Crittenton, Mike James
    Washington receives - Vince Carter, J Williams, Wright

    Orlando trades - Carter, J Williams
    Orlando recieves - Turkoglu, Crittenton, James

    Toronto gets Butler without giving up Calderon and he plays SF for the Raptors in place of Hedo (which is where he plays for Washington anyways), Washington still gets to clean house a little as well as reunite Vince with old college buddy Antawn Jamison, and everybody in Orlando is happy again with Turkoglu instead of Carter. I think the biggest question mark here is whether Washington would have any interest in Vince, but this gives them a solid two players to build around if Arenas' contract is void.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Default Johnson Played For Saunders

    Actually Johnson had his best NBA year as short as it was in 2007-08 playing for Saunders.

    When I say as short as it was here is the short story.

    1. Johnson sprained one of his ankles during the 2007-08 pre-season when he stepped on fellow teammate Jarvis Hayes foot. It's not uncommon for a baller to get an ankle sprain this way. It wasn't until around the beginning of 2008 that the Zoo crew with Johnson started to really go. Johnson was a big part of that. Eventually the Pistons bench was the #1 ranked bench in the NBA that season. In any case Dumars and Saunders wanted more experience up front for the playoffs so in late March as I recall, they acquired Theo Ratliff. That sent Johnson to the bench.

    So for 3 months from Jan - Mar of 2008 he was lights out. Better than he has played for the Raptors. In fact a lot of Pistons fans were really ticked off that Dumars acquired Ratliff and Saunders played him rather than Johnson during the 2008 playoffs.

    Saunders was fired after the playoffs in 2008 and of course is now the coach for the Wiz.

    If the rumor is true, I guess Johnson must have made a positive impression on Saunders during those 3 months.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Crittenton:
    -------------------
    Unfortunately for his career develop he has been out all season due to right foot surgery.

    I have followed his career since the Lakers drafted him.

    This guy can really motor. He has tremendous upside as a PG. He is big, strong and quick. Unfortunately he also made that mistake of getting involved with Agent Zero. Who does Crittenton think he is, Marshal Bass Reeves?

    Below is a link with a little background on Reeves. Reeves was born in Paris, TX. A small dusty postal stop unknown outside of TX. Wim Wenders in 1984 directed one of my favorite movies, entitled Paris, Texas. It stared Harry Dean Stanton. Nastassja Kinski, (nuff said) was also in this movie. A great artsy type movie.

    http://www.legendsofamerica.com/WE-BassReeves.html

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087884/
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Sun Jan 17th, 2010 at 09:56 AM.

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