Raptors exhibition game Wednesday, December 21

[Joey]

+/- is usually a more useful tool when looking at a large number of games. It's hard to draw conclusions from one game using +/-.

Although this applies to all stats, +/- seems especially inaccurate with less games played.

However, it still tells you that the team out-scored Boston when Bayless was on the floor, in this single game, by 8 points. Which is useful, considering we lost by quite a bit. It tells me that the team played farely well when he is on the floor.

[Nilanka]

thoughts on DeMar's move after he was stripped of the ball? Tripped the guy, didn't look at him and then walked over his head. I had to replay it just to see that he actually went over and not around. Then again, it was a stream so I guess I didn't replay it but the angry french people did. Call it what you will but it's exactly the reaction to the Celtics that we've been accused of missing for the past few years

I didn't see the game, but even if DeMar stomped on his head, I would be proud of him

[planetmars]

However, it still tells you that the team out-scored Boston when Bayless was on the floor, in this single game, by 8 points. Which is useful, considering we lost by quite a bit. It tells me that the team played farely well when he is on the floor.

Yeah I agree... Bayless also had a positive +/- in their first game as well. I think that tells us that he is doing a good job on the defensive end, but in terms of offensive production, I'm not sure.. we still only managed to score 73pts, after we only scored 75 in the first game.

[Nilanka]

However, it still tells you that the team out-scored Boston when Bayless was on the floor, in this single game, by 8 points. Which is useful, considering we lost by quite a bit. It tells me that the team played farely well when he is on the floor.

Yes, but it doesn't tell you if Bayless had much (if anything) to do with it.

[Hello]

Yes, but it doesn't tell you if Bayless had much (if anything) to do with it.

Although that is true, when everyone else had a negative influence, then it is more likely that he did have something to do with it.

[Hello]

So Bayless is as good as Rondo? Don't even go there or you will be sent for blood testing.

I did not say that. What I implied was that according to this one stat, Bayless had as much of a positive impact on the game than Rondo.
I did not say he was better, nor did I( say he played better. I simply made a comparison, for one stat in one game.

[Nilanka]

Bayless also had a positive +/- in their first game as well. I think that tells us that he is doing a good job on the defensive end...

I don't think we can draw this conclusion from +/-. Bayless +8, for all we know, had more to do with his 4 teammates on the floor (or the inferior lineup Boston put out), than anything Bayless did himself. +/- from one game just doesn't seem as concrete as other stats, IMO.

[slaw]

I don't think we can draw this conclusion from +/-. Bayless +8, for all we know, had more to do with his 4 teammates on the floor (or the inferior lineup Boston put out), than anything Bayless did himself. +/- from one game just doesn't seem as concrete as other stats, IMO.

The inferior Boston lineup might have had something to do with it....

Look, when a PG shoots 4-16, 0-5 from 3, with 2 AST and 2 TOs, there is really no need to debate the merits of +/-. That's an awful game. Full stop.

It says something about how bad this team is that people are looking at that stat line and finding a silver lining.

[planetmars]

The inferior Boston lineup might have had something to do with it....

Look, when a PG shoots 4-16, 0-5 from 3, with 2 AST and 2 TOs, there is really no need to debate the merits of +/-. That's an awful game. Full stop.

It says something about how bad this team is that people are looking at that stat line and finding a silver lining.

I think this whole season is about trying to find the silver lining

[slaw]

Not to pick on Bayless, the whole team was awful. This is a team struggling to find an identity with no one and nothing to fall back on - they don't do anything well. We knew it was going to be bad but the reality is... striking.

[jimmie]

Not to pick on Bayless, the whole team was awful. This is a team struggling to find an identity with no one and nothing to fall back on - they don't do anything well. We knew it was going to be bad but the reality is... striking.

+/- side, Bayless was useless last night (albeit, so was most everyone else). This is simply another example of numbers not telling the story. If you only checked the box score and didn't watch the game, please don't try to suggest he played well (not directing this at you, slaw -- just a general statement to the thread as a whole). I'm sure the game will be replayed at some point online or on Raptors TV, and I suggest you watch it. He was awful, possibly worse than the first game.

Look, I don't dislike Bayless, and I do think he seems like a good "team guy". But he sure hasn't shown any ability as a point guard either last year or this. And the fact that he's almost as bad on D as he is on O suggests he doesn't have much of a long-term future in the NBA. Anyone can string together a few 20 point games at the tail end of a season against teams also playing out the string. Mirage, people, mirage.

Jerryd, please prove me wrong, because you're our only backup PG at the moment.

[NoPropsneeded]

ya bayless played pretty bad yesterday. I don't know what he was thinking he kept driving to the rim knowing JO was right there. He got stuffed atleast 3 times if not more. Casey needs to yell at him about a few things and bayless really needs to work on his shot cause it was disgusting. Hopefully he bounces back on the season opener and our offense is back

[slaw]

Jerryd, please prove me wrong, because you're our only backup PG at the moment.

I am not sure I'd want him even in that limited role going forward. He needs to show he can run an offense and get other people involved. He needs to show consistency and efficiency. Now, in fairness to him, that's hard when you're playing with James Johnson, Aaron Gray, Bargnani, Derozan, and crew. Even so, he's a pretty limited player.

[irgigi]

Everyone's FG% was terrible, except Ed maybe. But they are now training defense right? Boston only scored 81 point, which isn't bad. And offense should come later. Bargnani should really stop making 20feet shots and stop being late on defense. Other than that he is fine. Rebounds i suppose was lost to partners (JJ & DD), but Toronto got more rebounds than Boston on both sides 48vs38 total. Bargnani, i'd say, showed less effort today to rebound than in a first game, but team as whole did well.

[mcHAPPY]

Everyone's FG% was terrible, except Ed maybe. But they are now training defense right? Boston only scored 81 point, which isn't bad. And offense should come later. Bargnani should really stop making 20feet shots and stop being late on defense. Other than that he is fine. Rebounds i suppose was lost to partners (JJ & DD), but Toronto got more rebounds than Boston on both sides 48vs38 total. Bargnani, i'd say, showed less effort today to rebound than in a first game, but team as whole did well.

Exactly. The offense will come. Most of these guys have practiced offense their whole lives with little emphasis on defense it appears. Rome wasn't built in a day, nor will the Raptors be (no Bargnani references to Rome please!). Keep concentrating on defense - good defense leads to easy offense. The offense is something they can continue to work on as times goes along but do not, do not, please do not sacrifice any time or effort on the defensive end at this time. It has only been 2 weeks!

You want to make a culture change? Keep working on defense even as Doug Smith tells us offense is job no. 1 .... dumb ass.