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Thread: Who is this and what have you done with Bryan Colangelo?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Who is this and what have you done with Bryan Colangelo?

    Quotes from Eric Koreen at the National Post in his Raptors preview: Colangelo learning the virtue of patience:


    On "mining draft gold and spending judiciously":
    “But it is agonizing, I have to say,” Colangelo said Thursday. “It’s incredibly hard. It’s difficult. Part of me wants to go on a four-month scouting trip. But I can’t. I’m here. I’ll keep a stiff upper lip.”

    On drafting Jonas Valanciunas:
    “Clearly there were players on the board that would have yielded instant gratification, or more potential instant gratification,” Colangelo said. “But this is about a long-term pick, and it clearly is the right long-term pick.”

    On the positional problems currently faced at power forward:
    “It’s a stacking principle,” Colangelo said. “You want to have guys that are there at various positions, and even if there is [positional] duplication, you can decide which one fits best and move on and possibly move a piece and convert that into something else.”

    On professional development:
    “More or less every team that I’ve been associated with has not had an issue scoring,” Colangelo said. “They’ve often been criticized for not being able to stop people. But in this business you evolve. The hiring of Dwane Casey is a clear sign that I understand fully that it’s not just done with offence. I do believe that defence can be taught. Getting personnel to play defence is part of that, current personnel and future personnel.”

    On his 2 year contract with a team option for a third:
    “You hope that we show enough signs of progress and development that people see the … vision,” Colangelo said of this season’s team. “You hope that the fans and the media are patient with the process. I think there’s an acceptance that this is the right path. You hope people are along for the ride. We see a very exciting future, and it’s just a matter of biding our time.”


    Eric Koreen wrote the article and it is worth the click. He ends with a very appropriate comment in my opinion:
    Once upon a time, Colangelo bet on the evolution of the game. Now he is betting on three traditional building blocks of basketball success: a defensive emphasis, the regenerative powers of the draft and the positive effect of time on youth.


    Colangelo has earned the skepticism from many Raptor fans. He has made numerous attempts to swing for the fences only to strike out or hit long pop outs. However at this point in time, given his obvious shift in philosophy, he deserves the chance to see what his vision will bring. He has recently done just about everything Raptor fans have been begging him to do in recent years with one notable exception, trade you-know-who. There is no doubt I am a Colangelo fan but there is also no doubt this team is on the fast track to greater success than the franchise has ever known.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    ...There is no doubt I am a Colangelo fan but there is also no doubt this team is on the fast track to greater success than the franchise has ever known.
    There is also no doubt that I am down with you on this. And we might be surprised by you-know-who after all.

    "Then I saw him play....
    Now I'm a believer
    Not a trace...
    Of doubt in my mind"

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Yeah it's really strange. Hopefully it has the same effect as when Costanza decided he'd do the opposite of everything he normally does
    @jerboat

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    Colangelo said that he was betting on “the evolution of the game” — that the skill-to-size ratio presented by such players as Bosh, Bargnani and Dirk Nowitzki would come to define the league. Turkoglu was another example. Defence was not unimportant, but it certainly was not paramount.
    I find this sort of weird. Size has always, atleast in part, defined the league. There are very few 'small' teams that are successful, and there are no shortage of players whose success, again atleast in part, came because they were big for their position. Having players that are big or big for their postion isn't some sort of evolution in the game, its always been a significant part of the game.

    The 2nd part (defense is not paramount) I just find quite funny. Colangelo did change how some teams approached their philosophy (eg Denver and GSW have both also tried run and gun basketball), and Colangelo's suns were very fun to watch. But they still got beat by defense. Teams that won championships through those years and since, were still some of the top defense in the leagues. What could possibly have made him think defense wasn't 'paramount'? (hello ego trip)

    Hopefully the past few yeas have humbled BC, and I hope he keeps this long term view.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Rookie big_chris's Avatar
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    I am not sure we are on a fast track, but I like the direction Colangelo is taking the team. The only chance he had to build this way was right when he first got here, but everybody loved him for signing AP, Rasho and Garbajosa.

    The team is still a few steps away from competing for anything. We have to nail the next draft pick, sign or trade for the right guy's, hope the young guy's keep developing, hope one of them realizes star potential, and hope everybody stay's healthy. Even as mighty as OKC looks, they are a serious knee injury away from having to restart.

    Calderon's expiring contract + Ed Davis + 2013 1st round pick next summer would be a pretty valuable trade package. Ed and Jonas are better assets then Andrea and Amir when dealing with a team looking to rebuild.

    1. Develop player for the season ( tank ).
    2. Draft Barnes
    3. Trade Calderon, Ed Davis, 2013 pick for Rajon Rondo, to the now re-building Celtics.
    4. Enjoy potential 2012 - 2013 roster.

    Rondo
    Derozan
    Barnes
    Bargnani
    Valanciunas

    AJohnson
    Bayless
    JJohnson
    Kleiza
    Weems
    Alabi
    Random veteran PG
    Random veteran C

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    Quote big_chris wrote: View Post
    .... Trade Calderon, Ed Davis, 2013 pick for Rajon Rondo, to the now re-building Celtics.
    Boston is going to be in cap space heaven by 2013 aren't they? Or at the very least have some heavy hitters with expiring contracts available to trade. Don't know that they would want to get rid of Rondo under those circumstances.

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    I find this sort of weird. Size has always, atleast in part, defined the league. There are very few 'small' teams that are successful, and there are no shortage of players whose success, again atleast in part, came because they were big for their position. Having players that are big or big for their postion isn't some sort of evolution in the game, its always been a significant part of the game.
    Right. But the context of the quote had Colangelo betting on the game evolving. It did not happen. He recognizes that and has adjusted accordingly.

    The 2nd part (defense is not paramount) I just find quite funny. Colangelo did change how some teams approached their philosophy (eg Denver and GSW have both also tried run and gun basketball), and Colangelo's suns were very fun to watch. But they still got beat by defense. Teams that won championships through those years and since, were still some of the top defense in the leagues. What could possibly have made him think defense wasn't 'paramount'? (hello ego trip)
    Go to Basketball-reference.com and check the Suns team defensive stats. Those first two years they were an above average defensive team on defensive rating while being a top 1 or top 2. The OppPPG was high because the Suns shot the ball in 7 seconds or less however the defensive rating (points per 100 possessions) was average. Plainly what I am trying to say is the Suns with Nash/D'Antoni were not a horrible defensive team - they were average, nothing more, nothing less. There have been numerous 'debates' on this board on the implications of the Robert Horry hip-check on Nash. I don't really care to get in to that debate but the Suns under Colangelo deserve more respect than given, in my opinion.

    Hopefully the past few yeas have humbled BC, and I hope he keeps this long term view.
    That is something we can both agree on.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Let's be honest here - Colangelo didn't wake up one morning and have a basketball epiphany that told him to start building this team through the draft and by developing young players. He ran this team into the ground and had no other choice at the end of the day.

    If Colangelo was truly changing his "vision", then he would have moved Bosh in the final year of his deal for a big score of picks and players, especially when it was seemingly obvious to everyone else in the league that CB4 was as good as gone come July. Instead he stubbornly held onto him and let him walk away for nothing.

    This set the team back immensely in the short term and the end result was that we were lousy this year, hence the high draft pick. All the other moves that put us in this position ultimately fall at the feet of Colangelo as well so let's not confuse us picking in the top 5 this season as some type of mastermind scheme that Colangelo pulled off. After all, If he had his way we would have re-upped Bosh and stayed as the same fringe playoff team that we've been for the last few years.

    It's also easy to talk about not making "band aid" moves after you had a summer of striking out on the free agent market. We heard that we were targeting Nene and Chandler - two players who would directly go against BC's supposed vision by the way - before they decided to sign with teams that are much better than us. Once again, let's not go crazy patting Colangelo on the back for turning the Raps into one of the least attractive places in the NBA at present time.
    Last edited by Fully; Mon Dec 26th, 2011 at 04:14 PM.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Let's be fair here - Colangelo didn't wake up one morning and have a basketball epiphany that told him to start building this team through the draft and by developing young players. He ran this ship into the ground and had no other choice at the end of the day.

    If Colangelo was truly changing his "vision", then he would have moved Bosh in the final year of his deal for a big score of picks and players, especially when it was seemingly obvious to everyone else in the league that CB4 was as good as gone come July. Instead he stubbornly held onto him and let him walk away for nothing.

    This set the team back immensely in the short term and the end result was that we were lousy this year, hence the high draft pick. All the other moves that put us in this position ultimately fall at the feet of Colangelo as well so let's not confuse us picking in the top 5 this season as some type of mastermind scheme that Colangelo pulled off. After all, If he had his way we would have re-upped Bosh and stayed as the same fringe playoff team that we've been for the last few years.

    It's also easy to talk about not making "band aid" moves after you had a summer of striking out on the free agent market. We heard that we were targeting Nene and Chandler - two players who would directly go against BC's supposed vision by the way - before they decided to sign with teams that are much better than us. Once again, let's not go crazy patting Colangelo on the back for turning the Raps into one of the least attractive places in the NBA at present time.
    I think Bryan stumbled accidentally into a rebuild - and it was never his intention. The nixed Chandler deal says a lot about what Bryan was thinking last year.

    However I think this year has always been about rebuilding. Drafting JV was a big move that says "looking for the future". He had Biyombo all lined up, and took JV instead. I don't buy into the Nene/Chandler free agency chatter either. Agents probably used Toronto to increase their client's stock. Or Bryan could have done his due diligence and inquired as to how much Chandler and Nene were looking at.

    I do agree about the Bosh mess. Bryan knew that Bosh was looking at a max contract - he even said so in a press conference before the 2009/2010 season started. Signing a player like Bosh to a max contract made no sense back then and makes less sense now.. that's the road to mediocrity, a place Toronto is very used to.

    He should have looked for trade offers in the summer of 2009, and then received assets (like expiring contracts and draft picks). It was a bit unprecedented at that time for your best player to walk away during free agency (who previously signed on to an extension), especially if they had nothing negative to say about the city or the team. But Bryan should have realized that Bosh was not a max player, and that if he was considering it, then he should have traded and placed all the power with the organization instead of with one player. Instead he went out and signed Turk and Jack. I think the only reason Bryan still has a job is because he was able to trade Turk for Barbosa.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Go to Basketball-reference.com and check the Suns team defensive stats. Those first two years they were an above average defensive team on defensive rating while being a top 1 or top 2. The OppPPG was high because the Suns shot the ball in 7 seconds or less however the defensive rating (points per 100 possessions) was average. Plainly what I am trying to say is the Suns with Nash/D'Antoni were not a horrible defensive team - they were average, nothing more, nothing less. There have been numerous 'debates' on this board on the implications of the Robert Horry hip-check on Nash. I don't really care to get in to that debate but the Suns under Colangelo deserve more respect than given, in my opinion.

    I don't disagree with you here and I'm not knocking Colangelo's suns teams. I always thought Phoenix's defensive criticisms were caused by their pace rather than their actualy inability to defend (they almost created the need for stats to be based on pace). I also think their offense was indirectly their defense by wearing teams out.

    But defense still won championships even throughout the Phoenix era and after. So Colangelo thinking that defense wasn't paramount or the game was evolving away from it was, to me, his bloated ego (due to the rave revues Phoenix got, and to a lesser extent his first year in Toronto) clouding his judgement.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    instead of trading for rondo why not just get a 2nd first rounder before the draft and pick up Kabongo. Or we can throw a shit load of money at Westbrook in the off season

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Yeah it's really strange. Hopefully it has the same effect as when Costanza decided he'd do the opposite of everything he normally does
    Well at least we know that he's not working on the Penske file anymore. That's Maurizio and Jay's job
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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