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Thread: Some Props to Amir and Jose !!!

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Rookie YoungGuns's Avatar
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    Default Some Props to Amir and Jose !!!

    So many people say Trade Amir, Trade Jose ... I know this is only 1 game but I hope this stops the haters for atleast a game. With such a compact season both of them will be big time players for this team. If Chris Humphries can average a double double you bet your arse so can Amir (i know one is a PF and one is a C)!!!!

    Also for Jose when you factor in his value don't forget his Ast to TO ratio..

    Jose and Amir if traded will be a major lose to this team.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote YoungGuns wrote: View Post
    So many people say Trade Amir, Trade Jose ... I know this is only 1 game but I hope this stops the haters for atleast a game. With such a compact season both of them will be big time players for this team. If Chris Humphries can average a double double you bet your arse so can Amir (i know one is a PF and one is a C)!!!!

    Also for Jose when you factor in his value don't forget his Ast to TO ratio..

    Jose and Amir if traded will be a major lose to this team.
    Amir is extremely valuable. I have not seen many people clamouring to trade him. I hope the Raptors keep Amir as he will be a great 1st big off the bench for years to come - and can start if JV is not ready initially.

    Calderon on the other hand is a different story. He is a useful player but he is also grossly overpaid. He is 30 and will be 31 next season. He has a major injury history and will be playing with Spain all summer preparing for and in the Olympics - this, of course, after 66 NBA games in 122 days. Calderon will not be with the Raptors when the young group of players hit their prime therefore no long term plans should be made for him. In terms of mentorship and leadership, I don't buy it. That has been a quality lacking in Toronto for the past 5-6 - essentially since Oak left town. Calderon is a great guy and a good teammate but those types of players are not difficult to find. As for the veteran leadership, there will always be guys like Anthony Carter out there.

    So in a nutshell, keep Amir and look to better the team with Calderon if an opportunity presents itself.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie YoungGuns's Avatar
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    Calderon should retire a Raptor ... he never asked to be traded, he never complained playing for a loser, he never did anything to the organization. I think we should be greatful to him for showing loyality to this team like no one else ever has. Please name me one pg who wants to play in Toronto that is better???

    And mark my words ... If Calderon is gone DeRozan, Amir, Andrea and Davis all look bad. There stats would drop, they would hate it here, and would all pull a Chris Bosh on us.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    trade jose only if its for a first round pick. at least then we have the chance to draft a PG like Kabongo to replace jose

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote YoungGuns wrote: View Post
    Calderon should retire a Raptor ... he never asked to be traded, he never complained playing for a loser, he never did anything to the organization. I think we should be greatful to him for showing loyality to this team like no one else ever has. Please name me one pg who wants to play in Toronto that is better???

    And mark my words ... If Calderon is gone DeRozan, Amir, Andrea and Davis all look bad. There stats would drop, they would hate it here, and would all pull a Chris Bosh on us.
    It is difficult to have a discussion with so much emotion involved.

    You have absolutely no way of knowing that DD, Amir, Andrea, and ED would all leave because Calderon was traded or left. Also, Calderon led the Raptors to 22 wins last year.... 22 wins. Think about it.... 22 wins.

    As for PG's who wish to play here, I don't know any personally so I can't tell you. However, if the Raptors offer a 3 year, $30M contract to Raymond Felton this summer, unless Portland offers the same, I do not see him saying no. What about if the Raptors get themselves in a position to draft Myck Kabongo? What if the rumours of Westbrook wanting out of OKC really are true? What if the Raptors can do a sign and trade for RW (personally, I think DD and AMir would much rather play with one of their California chums than Calderon).

    The bottom line is Calderon will likely not be a Raptor past 2012-13 due to age and health. Be prepared and don't forget what so many players constantly repeat in the media, "This is a business."

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    whos RW?

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    whos RW?
    Westbrook. Russell Westbrook.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    oh sorry

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    Raptors Republic Rookie YoungGuns's Avatar
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    Please don't kid yourself ... all but Andrea would leave at the drop of a hat. Our weakness isn't PG ... its not our strength either thou.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie YoungGuns's Avatar
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    And for the record I am a die hard Raps fan ... I take a 5 hour ride atleast twice a year to watch them play no matter what and watch all there games on tv if possible !!!

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    All emotion aside, Jose has his strengths that are particularly good on a young team: he stabilizes the offense, he knows how to get the ball to different people, and when he looks for it the right way, he can knock down shots. It's hard to find a real PG who can do that. He's probably not top 10, but he can play a smart game, get everyone involved, and hopefully help you win.

    As for Amir, I think it's mostly a matter of opinion and there are voices on all sides. Some would say trade him, some would say Bargs and other Ed, and they all have their reasons and they could all make sense depending on the trade, so we'll see what happens. We all know what Amir brings to the table, and if Jonas is a stud, then there's a high chance him or Ed get traded if BC stays in love with Bargs.

    I think we should chase a PG if we're not looking to the draft for the answer(I'd love to see Kabongo here, but we'll see where he is come draft time). Felton is interesting. Westbrook is too, though I fear we'd have to give up way too much. I think we'd even have an outside shot at Williams. With Lopez injured it will all hinge on if Howard gets traded somewhere else where he would also sign an extension. I think Dallas will make a hard push for him to try and pair him with Dirk to keep the championship window open. Jersey really does not have a lot of attractive young talent. If he becomes an UFA I don't know that many places can offer more than us. I can't see him staying there if he really wants to win and they can't get Howard. We, on the other hand, will be bringing over a possible franchise big (who already is a great pick and roll player), have 2 good complimentary scorers at both the wing and big with Demar and Bargs, good bigs in Amir and Ed, and even James Johnson could be a piece, though SF remains a huge mystery. It may be a fantasy, but it's a sweet one! Bring Deron Williams to Toronto!

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    All emotion aside, Jose has his strengths that are particularly good on a young team: he stabilizes the offense, he knows how to get the ball to different people, and when he looks for it the right way, he can knock down shots. It's hard to find a real PG who can do that. He's probably not top 10, but he can play a smart game, get everyone involved, and hopefully help you win.

    As for Amir, I think it's mostly a matter of opinion and there are voices on all sides. Some would say trade him, some would say Bargs and other Ed, and they all have their reasons and they could all make sense depending on the trade, so we'll see what happens. We all know what Amir brings to the table, and if Jonas is a stud, then there's a high chance him or Ed get traded if BC stays in love with Bargs.

    I think we should chase a PG if we're not looking to the draft for the answer(I'd love to see Kabongo here, but we'll see where he is come draft time). Felton is interesting. Westbrook is too, though I fear we'd have to give up way too much. I think we'd even have an outside shot at Williams. With Lopez injured it will all hinge on if Howard gets traded somewhere else where he would also sign an extension. I think Dallas will make a hard push for him to try and pair him with Dirk to keep the championship window open. Jersey really does not have a lot of attractive young talent. If he becomes an UFA I don't know that many places can offer more than us. I can't see him staying there if he really wants to win and they can't get Howard. We, on the other hand, will be bringing over a possible franchise big (who already is a great pick and roll player), have 2 good complimentary scorers at both the wing and big with Demar and Bargs, good bigs in Amir and Ed, and even James Johnson could be a piece, though SF remains a huge mystery. It may be a fantasy, but it's a sweet one! Bring Deron Williams to Toronto!
    You last paragraph sums it up. Calderon isn't the answer long term. That is not personal, it is a number of factors including age, health, and the need for the Raptors to get better at all positions. For guys already on the roster, getting better at all positions can mean personal growth and development. However a guy like Calderon (and Barbosa, too) what you see is what you get. They are not getting better and if anything they are going to get worse.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote YoungGuns wrote: View Post
    Please don't kid yourself ... all but Andrea would leave at the drop of a hat. Our weakness isn't PG ... its not our strength either thou.
    Which further shows this is a business and anything the Raptors can do to get better, they should - including trading or amnestying him this summer.


    *EDIT* Andrea entertained the idea of playing elsewhere this spring/summer while doing the play-by-play in Italy. After the years of abuse (rightly or wrongly) by Raptors fans, who could blame him for thinking about another franchise.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Dec 27th, 2011 at 08:12 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote YoungGuns wrote: View Post
    And for the record I am a die hard Raps fan ... I take a 5 hour ride atleast twice a year to watch them play no matter what and watch all there games on tv if possible !!!
    I think it is fair to say just about everyone around here is a die hard Raps fan.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You last paragraph sums it up. Calderon isn't the answer long term. That is not personal, it is a number of factors including age, health, and the need for the Raptors to get better at all positions. For guys already on the roster, getting better at all positions can mean personal growth and development. However a guy like Calderon (and Barbosa, too) what you see is what you get. They are not getting better and if anything they are going to get worse.
    It's also one of the reasons I could see Jose here long term. He would look good as a backup behind a great PG like Williams, and would be a nice change of pace to a guy like Westbrook. The biggest qustion with Jose is does he get amnestied this summer? I don't think need to in order to offer a max contract to someone(not positive), so I guess it depends on what else we would do.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It's also one of the reasons I could see Jose here long term. He would look good as a backup behind a great PG like Williams, and would be a nice change of pace to a guy like Westbrook. The biggest qustion with Jose is does he get amnestied this summer? I don't think need to in order to offer a max contract to someone(not positive), so I guess it depends on what else we would do.
    In 2012-13, the Raptors have $39.5M on the books including Calderon, plus 2 first round draft picks which is around $6M, and whatever contract Forbes signed which I assume is between $1.5 and $2M. That take us up to $47-48M. The most the Raptors could offer a free agent would be around $10M in this case.

    I do agree Calderon would be a good, scratch that, a GREAT back up. However, he might be able to get a contract equal to or greater in Spain than what I feel he would be worth in Toronto (no more than $4M). The other concern that I always have with him is his health.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    In 2012-13, the Raptors have $39.5M on the books including Calderon, plus 2 first round draft picks which is around $6M, and whatever contract Forbes signed which I assume is between $1.5 and $2M. That take us up to $47-48M. The most the Raptors could offer a free agent would be around $10M in this case.

    I do agree Calderon would be a good, scratch that, a GREAT back up. However, he might be able to get a contract equal to or greater in Spain than what I feel he would be worth in Toronto (no more than $4M). The other concern that I always have with him is his health.
    In that case Jose becomes the obvious casualty if amnestying him makes any difference in the Raptors ability to sign a max guy. It is possible the space is created through a trade or two, or some completely different move takes place that none of us will see coming. If we have to do a sign and trade, I'm still not sure what would be a good choice. Anyone would come at a very high cost in terms of assets. I don't know why OKC wouldn't match offers for Westbrook and I think he'd be crazy to want out and seriously have to question whether I'd want him. Think McGrady leaving here instead of staying with Carter, or Kobe after the 3peat wanting to be the 'man' until Shaq actually left and he realized how much it sucks trying to carry a team. Westbrook should stay with that team, whcih can stay intact for a few years and make runs at championships, and he's crazy, stupid or both if he leaves (assuming OKC does match).

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    That's the tricky part about Calderon. One good game and we think he's part of the core... until the hamstring gives out. I'm convinced that if BC cannot draft a 3 in this upcoming draft, he will go after a PG. Calderon is good for now. As for trading him, his age and contract (albeit an expiring one), may prove to be difficult to move. The one thing I won't be in favour of personally is to move him for nothing a la Lamar Odom. He could be moved to a contender by season's end but it has to be for a piece. The Lakers for example may need him down the line.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    He's definitely not part of the core, but it can be good to hang on to guys who've been around the team a long time. Continuity is never a bad thing, especially if we can't upgrade talent. I would love for some miraculous events to happen this summer and I wouldn't mind seeing Calderon and Bayless gone. But for that to happen, it would have to mean an upgrade. If we somehow get someone like DW or RW, and then miraculously convince someone like Nash to be our main guard off the bench (would make a great match with Deron who can slide over to shoot 3s at the other guard spot), I would never want to see Jose again. However that is highly unlikely, and I definitely would not want to Odom him away. Hold onto him til he expires or til you have to amnesty him. And if he expires and we have a PG of the future in place, maybe see if it's worth bringing him back cheap as a backup, because we all know that's a role him, and his hamstrings, are better suited for.

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