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Thread: What's Your Opinion of DeRozan's First 3 Games? (Chisholm: Debunking DD myth post 46)

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    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Default What's Your Opinion of DeRozan's First 3 Games? (Chisholm: Debunking DD myth post 46)

    I'm interested to see what people think about Demar these first 3 games.

    Any improvement over last year? Any progress?

    Basically, I'm wondering if he should continue to be a central part of the re-build? Any chance he'll become a consistent all-star on a contender?

    Personally, having only been able to watch portions of the first 3 games, I'm not sure about him. Does he just need maturing? Does he have it to become the total package?

    Also, while he still has intriguing potential upside, should BC look to make a trade for someone, maybe with less athleticism, but with more aptitude and attitude?

    What do the experts think?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Derozan's three point shooting has definitely improved, and so i feel his shot has as well, unfortunately we've seen too many forced and out of control shots that have been hurting this team, when on a roll or when motivated (in the 4th quarters) he knocks them down, gets aggressive, and shows us all-star potential, but I need to see some consistent skills that need to shine even when the game is cold.

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    He needs to work on his defence.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    3 point shooting and he'll actually get a assist or 2 a game now.

    He needs to be more aggressive.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Rookie LeeZ's Avatar
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    Definitely improved his three-pt. shooting, still gets lost too many times against the pick and roll, and has tended to revert to his shooting mechanics from season one, where he takes the ball behind his head and hurls the ball at the rim using a delayed release. I've noticed him doing this when he tries athletic moves. When he spots up, he's fine, his form is good. I'd like to see the Raps run that foul-line double screen for him, the one they've run for Blur a few times.

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    After Indiana game everyone, including Casey, was telling him, he should be more aggressive (active) from the start of the game. He tried to do that against Mavs, and it led to him making hard shots instead of playing team game and passing around.
    Why do you want him to score 20 points, if team is playing well? It's easier to defend if there are few high scorers in a team. Demar and Bargs should push it more in tough moments of game no doubt, coz they can score hard points, but i don't mind if others are scoring rest of the time.

    Basically, it's to early to say, he did well against Indiana, we need more of those.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    DeRozan is 22 - the age of a college senior. I wrote him off last year in the first 10-12 games and he made me eat my words.

    There have certainly been a lot of changes this year (emphasis on D, more sets on offense).

    I think he'll figure it out. If he was 25 or 26 that would certainly change things but he is just turned 22 in August.

    From an individual standpoint he has improved his 3 pt shot it would appear. He still needs improvement on his dribble, passing, and most importantly defense. For all the grief you-know-who gets, DeMar certainly misses his share of rotations or, more frequently, lost on screens and closeouts.


    The bottom line when it comes to his future in Toronto, like every current Raptor on the roster, there are no untouchables. The only assets I would consider nearly untouchable at this time are JV and the 2012 pick.


    If the Raptors pick 5-10 or trade down, something to consider might be including DD in a deal for a player like Rudy Gay and then drafting a SG/wing like Brad Beal, MKG, Jeremy Lamb, or Terrence Ross with a first round pick or hoping a guy like John Jenkins or Doron Lamb is available with the 2nd round pick or a player like PJ Hairston pulls a 'Corey Joseph' and surprises with declaring for the draft.

    By the way, I'm not advocating anything above, just throwing it out there.


    Here is the ESPN fantasy outlook on DD which I think fits well here:


    DeRozan put up 22 points (9-16 FG, 2-2 3PT, 2-2 FT), four rebounds, two assists and a steal Wednesday when the Raptors lost their home-opener to the Pacers, 90-85.

    Spin: DeRozan was impressive in his second game of the regular-season. He scored 16 of his 22 points in the fourth quarter and after the game head coach Dwane Casey said DeMar single-handedly brought the Raptors back into it when they were down as much as 14 late in the game. His performance showed an improvement in his shooting, leadership and reliability - three things that were expected of him coming into the season. Look for much more to come for this kid.

    ESPN Fantasy Projection: The Raptors were happy to see their 2009 first-round pick make a huge leap forward as a scorer in his sophomore campaign. He hit 46.7 percent of his shots and averaged 19.9 points after the All-Star break, including a whopping 23.1 ppg in April. That late-season boost was due in part to an injury to their No. 1 offensive option, Andrea Bargnani, but clearly DeRozan established himself as their No. 2 option. While his percentages are fantastic and he can score, DeRozan attempted just 52 3s in 82 games (hitting a hideous 9.6 percent of them) and isn't going to pile up dimes. He may not have elite upside, but any guard who can score 19-20 points with solid percentages can help fantasy teams.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3978/demar-derozan
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Dec 31st, 2011 at 11:51 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Yeah, I guess he's only 22. Still a kid in many ways.

    Interesting to see what his ceiling is. He'll definitely fit with JV and the new draftee next year. They'll all be expected to play grown-up basketball pretty fast. No high-fiving and goofy grins until the games over.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    After Derozan's good finish to last season, he is on the watch list for any team playing the Raptors. Game prep for the Raptors is bound to be "Force Derozan to shoot from outside" and "Give Bayless open shots from mid-court." We have seen some 3 pt shooting added to Demar's arsenal and slightly better ball handling. He is also working harder on defense, which leaves him a little less energy on offense.

    I think Casey's defensive scheme has lead to fewer fast break opportunities, and requires a more structured half-court offense, which puts a bit of a crimp on Demar's preferred style of play. I don't think there is really any problem. He needs another month or so to get comfortable with the new coach, new systems, and the level of effort required to play Casey ball.

    Demar played a fair bit of hoops in the summer, but we all saw the highlights. None of it was the sort of prolonged, high intensity efforts that are expected of him now. I suspect condition is a significant part of his problem.

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    I think DeMar has improved a key aspect of his game every year. His D is still a work in progress but he seems much more aware and keyed into the schemes so far. His biggest problems other than that are his handle and inability to really finish through contact. When he was drafted people compared his hops to VC but he gets nowhere near as high but definitely has hang time like Kobe. MJ had hang and hops but DD and KB don't get up as high.

    My main issue with DeMar is I do not think he's capable of creating his own shot. I have said it since last year but I really think his game is more suited to a Rip Hamilton style: lots of off ball movement, screens and cuts. when there is movement in the offense the kid gets great looks and nails them but the Raps offense has a tendency to get bogged down into a 2 man game too often and relies on spot up shooters and ISO plays to bail them out. Problem is the Raps don't have guys to do that.

    I'd love to see some Doc Rivers style offense implemented with lots of down screens and deceptive movement.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I don't think a big issue with Demar is his lack of shot creating ability. He's definitely not a great playmaker, but no one on our team is. That being said, both him and Bargnani are capable of getting their shot off, and both are good shooters off the ball. Demar's biggest weaknesses are still the same everyone will be repeating: ballhandling, passing and D. I think the first one may be very slightly better than last year, he looks a bit more in control one on one. He still does not have any sense of how to attack the D when it collapses on him. He has made easy passes which he didn't always make last year: simply kicking out instead of maybe dribbling out of control into the paint and getting stuck in the air. His D has not looked any better really, at least in terms of one on one situations, but as with the whole team, he's getting a better sense of protecting the paint, in Dallas he got a couple of solid rebounds that we needed, and he's developing an attitude, which is nice to see. Maybe he'll improve through the year and I think that's what we want to see. To me the biggest development would be better chasing through screens.

    I think the Rip comparison is decent, but Demar I think has more potential since he's a bit more athletic and stronger. I think both him and Bargs would flourish with a legit playmaker around, meaning a guy who can create his own shot and make the smart play. Jose is just an adequate fill in at point and JJ is obviously not that. I don't care if we fill it with a great SF or PG, and I don't care how we address both positions as long as we do. We need a real #1 option in terms of being able to break down the defense in an isolation situation. Barbosa is our best player at that right now, and that's unfortunate. I hope Demar gets better at that, but that may still take a season or two, or never happen. I don't know what Demar's ceiling is. Like I said I think it's higher than Rip. I don't want to assume more than that.

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    I see no evidence of improvement. He's still a fungible player who probably shouldn't be starting.

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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    I see no evidence of improvement. He's still a fungible player who probably shouldn't be starting.
    There is improvement in his 3 pt shot, but beyond that the changes are marginal. I agree that he is a player that probably wouldn't be starting on a playoff team.

    Demar still needs to greatly improve his decision making, passing/ball handling and be more aggresive both offensively (get to the rim) and defensively. Needless to say he has a long way to go still.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    DeRozan is 22 - the age of a college senior. I wrote him off last year in the first 10-12 games and he made me eat my words.

    There have certainly been a lot of changes this year (emphasis on D, more sets on offense).

    I think he'll figure it out. If he was 25 or 26 that would certainly change things but he is just turned 22 in August.

    From an individual standpoint he has improved his 3 pt shot it would appear. He still needs improvement on his dribble, passing, and most importantly defense. For all the grief you-know-who gets, DeMar certainly misses his share of rotations or, more frequently, lost on screens and closeouts.


    The bottom line when it comes to his future in Toronto, like every current Raptor on the roster, there are no untouchables. The only assets I would consider nearly untouchable at this time are JV and the 2012 pick.


    If the Raptors pick 5-10 or trade down, something to consider might be including DD in a deal for a player like Rudy Gay and then drafting a SG/wing like Brad Beal, MKG, Jeremy Lamb, or Terrence Ross with a first round pick or hoping a guy like John Jenkins or Doron Lamb is available with the 2nd round pick or a player like PJ Hairston pulls a 'Corey Joseph' and surprises with declaring for the draft.

    By the way, I'm not advocating anything above, just throwing it out there.


    Here is the ESPN fantasy outlook on DD which I think fits well here:
    I think almost everyone's post on DD is accurate and should be viewed as where DD is right now, plain and simple. To me, they're quite accurate and that, overall, it isn't a bad thing. DeMar hasn't regressed or dropped off, in my opinion. He jus needs to get accustomed to a new way of playing under Casey. This is a complete overhaul of the team, eh. From office to court, shortened season, no REAL competitive playing in the off-season, though the conditioning was the only constant, barely a training camp and no summer league to get used to players. All while having to adjust your role and even your overall play. You spend more energy on D than offense, and when it comes back to setting up, ALL the players on our roster have to do that. Even the ones that came from defensive programs say that Casey's is different. So, it's an adjustment to everyone, not just DD. I think he's progressing as we expected and that he's even progressed quicker in some areas than expected. (scoring from last season, and 3s this season). By next season, he'll have had 66+ games of straight defense experience in a higher competitive level. So, by next season, he'll come into form, more. Thing is, people like Weems got more competitive play time than DD did, and Weems is the least liked in these parts. Lol.
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    Default Derozan will never be an all-star!

    Derozan`s biggest weakness is that he is a p$*&y. This may be from a lack of confidence, his low basketball IQ, or his lack of fundamental skills. Whatever the cause I do not see him overcoming this problem...ever! I think Casey has to show him where the basket is and forbid him from taking a shot outside of 8 feet. When is the last time we have seen DD take the ball around a defender and hammer it over the coming help defence. I can`t remember the last time, but I can remember him taking an out of control spin move, double puming the ball, and tossing up a soft layup that may or may not fall into the cylinder. His lack of aggressiveness also makes it very difficult for him to create his own shot. I would trade him for a first round draft pick in a heartbeat.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    Quote black angus wrote: View Post
    Derozan`s biggest weakness is that he is a p$*&y. This may be from a lack of confidence, his low basketball IQ, or his lack of fundamental skills. Whatever the cause I do not see him overcoming this problem...ever! I think Casey has to show him where the basket is and forbid him from taking a shot outside of 8 feet. When is the last time we have seen DD take the ball around a defender and hammer it over the coming help defence. I can`t remember the last time, but I can remember him taking an out of control spin move, double puming the ball, and tossing up a soft layup that may or may not fall into the cylinder. His lack of aggressiveness also makes it very difficult for him to create his own shot. I would trade him for a first round draft pick in a heartbeat.
    You know what, if Cleveland, Detroit or Milwaukee want him for their pick then why not other than those kinda teams then, nah.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Jon_Wade's Avatar
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    If they could get a draft pic that would land them Jeremy lamb and then get another good player with their own pic that would be great!
    Whoever told you skies the limit is looking dumb because I'm 22 and i'm moonwalking on the sun.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    There is improvement in his 3 pt shot, but beyond that the changes are marginal. I agree that he is a player that probably wouldn't be starting on a playoff team.

    Demar still needs to greatly improve his decision making, passing/ball handling and be more aggresive both offensively (get to the rim) and defensively. Needless to say he has a long way to go still.
    Entirely agree.

    The part that hurts is he was saying so much about how much work he put in during the offseason and the lockout and he actually looked good in charity games (ok, ok, maybe they all looked good) but maybe also my expectations were just too high.

    I was actually expecting him to at average 25/4/4, but maybe Casey had been setting more plays for Bargnani

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote black angus wrote: View Post
    Derozan`s biggest weakness is that he is a p$*&y. This may be from a lack of confidence, his low basketball IQ, or his lack of fundamental skills. Whatever the cause I do not see him overcoming this problem...ever! I think Casey has to show him where the basket is and forbid him from taking a shot outside of 8 feet. When is the last time we have seen DD take the ball around a defender and hammer it over the coming help defence. I can`t remember the last time, but I can remember him taking an out of control spin move, double puming the ball, and tossing up a soft layup that may or may not fall into the cylinder. His lack of aggressiveness also makes it very difficult for him to create his own shot. I would trade him for a first round draft pick in a heartbeat.
    I might get a bit of flak for saying this, but im kinda seeing a little bit of Vince in him, and not the good parts. He seems to be more concerned about baiting the foul rather than sinking the layup, and he seems to grimace everytime he gets contact, be it offensively or defensively. and seems to always slow down after a blown layup or missed defensive assignment. like he's showing frustration or dejection.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    you guys are too hard on him after 4 games!! at 22 he has so much more to grow, basketball iq and confidence comes from experience. I for one see his improved 3pt shooting as a clear sign that the guy knows how to improve and will. as a shooting guard it was important for him to be a 3pt threat and Im sure BC brought that message across. Now during the season he will improve slowly his decision making, and handles (still his weakest part). Unlike most other nba players he improves when he says he will improve, and I don't see him giving that up, he's got the drive to be great, he's 22, and he's got a great opportunity in Toronto. Let him grow and make mistakes without folding on him immediately.. (a draft pick? really?)

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