View Poll Results: Which Raptor point guard had the biggest positive impact on the court?

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  • Damon Stoudamire

    4 12.50%
  • Alvin Williams

    11 34.38%
  • Mike James

    0 0%
  • T.J. Ford

    1 3.13%
  • Jose Calderon

    15 46.88%
  • Other

    1 3.13%
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Thread: The evolution of the Raptors PG.

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Default The evolution of the Raptors PG.

    No team can succeed without a solid point guard. For the past decade, every team that has taken the title has had a solid point guard. Whether it is the Mavs with Kidd, or the Celtics with Rondo, one of the keys to success is a point guard who can distribute the ball, and play defense. The point guard position for the Raptors has been an area of diversity for the franchise, and an area of intrigue.

    The Break down:

    The first legitimate star the Raptors ever had was Damon Stoudamire. Mighty Mouse made the Raptors a legitimate team in the NBA, though he played only 4 years with the team. He found a way to average over 8 assists a game in all of his seasons with the Raptors with a pretty bysmal team around him, and he really made his team mates better.

    Alvin Williams was the teams point guard after Damon. Though he never scored a ton of points, or averaged many assists, the guy played his heart out on both sides of the court, and turned into the a fan favourite in Toronto. He complimented his team well (keeping egos like VC in line...sorta). Some call him the "best all around Raptor". There is a satisfaction as a fan to see a player work so hard, and Alvin Williams provided that hustle every night.

    After Toronto had waived Williams, Mike James ran the point for the Raptors. Like Williams, James was never an amazing distributor, but he was a deadeye shooter, and provided the Raptors with 20 points per game. He was far from a true pg, and a point guard on a changing Raptors team.

    Mike James’ Raptor career ended after one season, and the team changed dramatically with the selection of Andrea Bargnani. The Raptors had a prolific point guard duo of Jose Calderon, and T.J. Ford, also known as Forderon. With these two the Raptors pulled off a huge turnaround season (to win 47 games and make the playoffs). The next season was the last for Forderon as T.J. dealt with injuries, and turned into a locker room distraction.

    Now begins the Calderon era. He would be the starting point guard up to now, with the Raptors seeing other players like Jack, and most recently Bayless back him up. Calderon is arguably the first "true" pg the Raptors have ever had. He has a superb basketball I.Q. with great court vision, though he has his critics. Calderon has never been a defensive point guard, but with Casey we have seen a huge improvement.

    The Stats (as a Raptor):

    Damon Stoudamire - 19 ppg | 8.6 apg | 4.2 rpg | .420 fgp | 3.43 tov

    Alvin Williams - 7.26 ppg | 3.8 apg | 2.44 rpg | .410 fgp | 1.24 tov *

    Mike James - 20.3 ppg | 5.8 apg | 3.3 rpg | .469 fgp | 2.6 tov

    T.J. Ford - 13.1 ppg | 7 apg | 2.55 rpg | .450 fpg | 2.55 tov *

    Jose Calderon - 9.8 ppg | 7 apg | 2.5 rpg | .486 fpg | 1.7 tov *

    *made the playoffs at least one time in Raptor career

    What I found particularly interesting is that the Raptors have had their most success with "true" pg's, and depth at the point guard position.

    If you see any errors let me know.

    Give your opinions and thoughts on which PG was the best (take into considerations wins/stats/hustle/etc.)

    Thanks,

    Red and White.
    Last edited by Red and White; Tue Jan 3rd, 2012 at 10:40 AM.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    Default

    Alvin, I take clutch over everthing.

  3. #3
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    I voted for Jose though I enjoyed watching all of the above. Mugsy was the most fun to watch.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    No question Stoudamire had the biggest impact on the floor of any of the PG's listed. He almost carried the team on his shoulders the first two years.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Boogie Williams is my personal favourite but the most talented point to ever play in Toronto would be Stoudamire. It's kind of sickening how the point guard position has been doomed since the franchise began.

    Stoudamire wins rookie of the year but asks for a trade in his third season. He gets traded to Portland for a package that features Kenny Anderson. Kenny Anderson refuses to set foot in Toronto and the Raptors have to flip him to Boston for a package that features Chauncey Billups. Billups plays 29 so-so games with the Raps before they flip him to Denver that summer. Billups emerges to become one of the better points of the last decade.
    After that saw the rise of Alvin Williams as a solid starter and a fan favourite. He signs a long term deal to stay in Toronto and watches as his career his destroyed by injuries in the following years. Mike James then used the 2006 season as his own personal shooting drill. Raptors manage to get two good point guards after that in Calderon and Ford but even that becomes a negative as the controversy spills over into the locker room. Ford is traded in the horrendous O'Neal deal. Calderon gets handed the keys and has a couple of underwhelming seasons (and that's coming from a Jose fan)

    What will the next chapter hold?

  6. #6
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    Easy vote if it is for off court: Alvin.

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Rookie Paradigm Shift's Avatar
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    No team can succeed without a solid point guard. For the past decade, every team that has taken the title has had a solid point guard.
    Lakers?

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    As far as "best" and "impact" go it's mighty mouse without a question.
    @jerboat

  9. #9
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    Quote Paradigm Shift wrote: View Post
    Lakers?
    Was thinking that too. Now not having a proper PG is killing them though.

    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    As far as "best" and "impact" go it's mighty mouse without a question.
    Yeah you know what that is correct. I remember those games. Imagine if he were playing in his early years skills now.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Was thinking that too. Now not having a proper PG is killing them though.
    A problem with the Lakers is their lack of good perimeter defense (mainly due to speed-issues with Blake and Fisher), not so much the lack of a pointguard for their offense. Might not stop them from having a good run this year though.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote Paradigm Shift wrote: View Post
    Lakers?
    Knew someone would bring that up. The fact of the matter is the guy averaged double digits on a stacked offensive team from 2000 to 2003, and he contributed time and time again late in games. He was a key piece in their early threepeat and was a huge clutch player for them. He has the second highest number of three's in the NBA finals. He shows up when it counts.

    In their later championships, he destroyed Orlando and Boston late in games. Though it is my own opinion, I feel it is clear that D-Fish was hugely important in their championships, and they may not have won as many without him.
    Last edited by Red and White; Mon Jan 2nd, 2012 at 06:16 PM.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Rookie Paradigm Shift's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    A problem with the Lakers is their lack of good perimeter defense (mainly due to speed-issues with Blake and Fisher), not so much the lack of a pointguard for their offense. Might not stop them from having a good run this year though.
    I love(d) D-Fish too but I think the real answer is that the triangle offence, apparently, alleviates the need for a strong pg. I say apparently because I do not claim to understand the issue completely but have heard it stated a number of times. Phil's absence, and with it, the absence of the triangle have exposed the pg weakness the Lakers have been able to play around in the past. It does go to show, however, that there is at least one system that can flourish without being based on a strong pg.

    With so many quick young pgs out there right now, it makes me wonder how much of an advantage the Raptors would gain by bringing in a star pg. I don't know who they could bring in, through either the draft or FA, that would truly distinguish them. Maybe it would be better to do something different and focus on the bigs and a wing (That made me think of Miami as another example as a successful team without a strong pg, the wing part of course). Of course, you need to be solid at pg, but maybe putting the spectacular elsewhere on the team gives them a more defined niche.

    Of course, I am not designing a fantasy team here. I'm trying to be a little realistic about how much talent Toronto can actually accumulate.

    Then again if we traded Calderon and Bargnani with Davis and a couple of draft picks for Westbrook and Durant ......

    Edit - Sorry, this was meant as a response to Red and White
    Last edited by Paradigm Shift; Mon Jan 2nd, 2012 at 07:48 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default To sleep perchance to dream

    DWilliams is now saying that he def. doesn't care small market to large market and we have a pile of money this coming off season. If there is any shot in hell he comes to Toronto and the draft could yield a significant SF I would be a happy happy man.

    Story was on hoops hype quoting NY daily but the article is now page not found for some reason.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    DWilliams is now saying that he def. doesn't care small market to large market and we have a pile of money this coming off season. If there is any shot in hell he comes to Toronto and the draft could yield a significant SF I would be a happy happy man.

    Story was on hoops hype quoting NY daily but the article is now page not found for some reason.
    DWill is a great PG but I worry about his attitude and commitment to conditioning in the off season.

    In the article he says also says regarding money:

    “I’m sure I could make a couple more hundreds of thousands or something like that a year (on endorsements), or maybe a $1 million per year,” said the 27-year-old, who is married with four children. “But you could go somewhere in Florida or Texas and you’re not losing 8% state tax, plus you don’t have a city tax, plus the cost of living isn’t two times higher than anywhere else.”

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love DWilliams in Toronto. I'd be absolutely overjoyed - but I would still worry about previous concerns (that might just be my nature though).

    One thing Toronto or any other team would have in their favour is he is an unrestricted free agent and can play where he wants.

  15. #15
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    DWill is a great PG but I worry about his attitude and commitment to conditioning in the off season.

    In the article he says also says regarding money:




    Don't get me wrong, I'd love DWilliams in Toronto. I'd be absolutely overjoyed - but I would still worry about previous concerns (that might just be my nature though).

    One thing Toronto or any other team would have in their favour is he is an unrestricted free agent and can play where he wants.
    I agree on his attitude but it's true of a Westbrook as well. DRose is more an exception but he won't be going anywhere and solid PGs are rare.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    I agree on his attitude but it's true of a Westbrook as well. DRose is more an exception but he won't be going anywhere and solid PGs are rare.
    I think you have different, but both very valid, concerns with Westbrook and Williams. Any time you are looking at tying up max money (and that is what it would take to get either) in a player that is questionable as a max player you get nervous. What I mean by questionable is consider Kobe, LeBron, Howard they are all max players no doubt and then a group like DWill, Westbrook, Bosh, Gay are close but not quite yet are paid that way.


    Rose isn't going anywhere after signing the 5 year, $94M contract.

  17. #17
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    Stoudamire> Calderon > A.Will


    Beside the PG, Raptors has no star under Stoudamire era, its a very difficult job for a PG to carry a team, no matter u r Mr. Nash or John Stockton. I vote for stoudamire.

    Calderon, is a good PG and if he could get more PPG, I will put him on front.

    A.Will, good player but got too many good players around him, unable to see how good he was!

  18. #18
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I find it hard to pick between Stoudamire and Calderon.

    On a bad team, Stoudamire had the ability to carry the team on his back and will the team to win. On a good team, I think Calderon is the superior distributor to get all 5 players on the court going. As a player, I'd probably take Stoudamire. As a PG, I think I'd take Calderon, because I want a PG who has a pass-first mentality and the ability to make his teammates better.

    I voted for Calderon.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I voted for Mike James :P

    Hands down, Calderon is the best PG (not necessarily the best player on the list) this team has ever had. The all-time assist numbers speak loudly compared to the 2nd and 3rd place totals.

    As for Stoudamire, although he scored a lot of points in Toronto, he was a very inefficient shooter barely averaging 42%
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Rookie Paradigm Shift's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    I agree on his attitude but it's true of a Westbrook as well. DRose is more an exception but he won't be going anywhere and solid PGs are rare.
    Maybe exceptional PGs are rare, but solid ones? I think the league is full of solid and up-and-coming pgs.

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