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Thread: Linas Update? (post 54: Kleiza active and in uniform vs. Kings!)

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Default Linas Update? (post 54: Kleiza active and in uniform vs. Kings!)

    Anyone have any word on how Linas is progressing, will be be seeing him soon?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Butler's made him completely expendable, look for him to play a bunch of minutes right before the trade deadline then sent out for a 2017 second rounder
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Butler's made him completely expendable, look for him to play a bunch of minutes right before the trade deadline then sent out for a 2017 second rounder
    I don't think it's that easy. Butler's played 1 decent game. And to be honest, I'd much rather have Kleiza shooting corner 3s than Butler.

    Butler is the superior defender, but Kleiza is the superior offensive threat (inside/outside J, creating his own shot, post-up game, etc.). Kleiza's also represents a Lithuanian comfort zone for when Valanciunas arrives next year. Kleiza's younger than Butler too, but is coming back from major knee surgery.

    Butler's in his contract year at $1.2 million, while Kleiza is signed until 2014 with $13.8 million still owed.

    Pros and cons to both guys. It won't be an easy decision for Colangelo. And who knows, maybe even J.Johnson draws the short straw...
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Butler's made him completely expendable, look for him to play a bunch of minutes right before the trade deadline then sent out for a 2017 second rounder
    It would be hard to move Linas right now with that contract coming off major knee surgery. I'll bet Kleiza be in fine form at the Olympic qualifier in Venezuela in July.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Your joking right? Healthy Kleiza>>>Butler
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
    -"ďI ainít no diva! I donít have no blond hair, red hair. Iím Reggie Evans.Ē

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Not really what you were looking for, sorry
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    Kleiza is a beast, hes got size and toughness and the offense to back it up, but the consistency is the biggest question mark.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote e2thed wrote: View Post
    Kleiza is a beast, hes got size and toughness and the offense to back it up, but the consistency is the biggest question mark.
    +1. His offence on the second unit will make that much of a difference rather than Butler's defence as a starter. Melo did drop 35 on us at will remember? Melo of course was dropping 31 everywhere but if he dropped 23 on us that night (with Butler and JJ covering him), then I'd shut up.

    PS> Also, watching JJ on offence last night made me cringe even more. I'm comfortable with JJ starting and Linas / Butler off the bench.
    Last edited by Balls of Steel; Thu Jan 5th, 2012 at 08:29 AM.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    So to summarize, you'd rather have a guy that's inconsistent offensively and doesn't defend over a solid defender and consistent shooter on your bench? Just checking.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    So to summarize, you'd rather have a guy that's inconsistent offensively and doesn't defend over a solid defender and consistent shooter on your bench? Just checking.
    Consistent shooter? We're certainly not talking about Butler, are we?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    I just wanted to know his progress, not debate his abilities or role with the team...that being said. We did not see a healthy Kleiza when he was playing last year and nobody knows how he will play if he comes back feeling better. We can all acknowledge the improvement in Bargnani's defensive awareness, can Linas not make the same progress?

    Klieza gives us a low post option from the SF position as well as decent rebounding, toughness, and although streaky, he can make the 3 ball as well. I am unsure why some are so ready to write the guy off, look what a healthy Calderon is doing so far this year....

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Certainly moreso than Kleiza
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Certainly moreso than Kleiza
    Career stats would disagree with you.

    Edit: Where is this doesn't defend idea coming from? He was our best player defending opposing PF's 1-1 last year, where he struggled was guarding quicker SF's and getting lost on switches. He wasn't passive like Bargnani, or completely lost like Derozan. We need a scorer in the block right now, and he'd be ideal if he were healthy.
    Last edited by Raptorsss; Tue Jan 3rd, 2012 at 03:42 PM.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    This is a bit off topic for this thread but continuing on the discussion of Butler vs Kleiza, I checked basketball-reference.com for their stats, and I found it very interesting to see how close Butler is from Kleiza with respect to their career stats:

    Butler:
    G   GS  MP   FG  FGA FG%  3P  3PA 3P%  FT  FTA FT%  ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF  PTS
    609 254 23.9 3.2 8.0 .401 1.3 3.5 .361 0.9 1.1 .752 0.4 2.2 2.6 0.9 0.4 0.6 0.7 1.6 8.5


    Kleiza:
    G   GS  MP  FG  FGA FG%  3P  3PA 3P%  FT  FTA FT%  ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF  PTS
    340 59 19.9 3.1 6.9 .447 0.9 2.7 .336 1.5 2.1 .752 1.0 2.6 3.6 0.8 0.4 0.2 1.0 2.1 8.6


    I'd say Kleiza has the edge over FG% but Butler has the edge over 3FG%.

    In the 'defense' department.. Kleiza has a career DRating of 110. While Butler has a career DRating of 109.

    Since Butler is cheaper, I think he'd be the better person to have (but that's a moot point since we have them both). Long term I don't think it really matters as I'd prefer not to have either of them.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    And Kleiza is 7 years younger than Butler...
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
    -"ďI ainít no diva! I donít have no blond hair, red hair. Iím Reggie Evans.Ē

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    butler is more clutch...

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    On offence, Kleiza (when consistent) is better then Butler IMO, but Butler has only played 5 games with the Raps, and after last night, it may be that he has found his rhythm. Something that really impressed me about Butler is he does not shy away from taking the big shot. Though I doubt it, if Butler can be a guy to give us a little scoring tap at the end of games and take the big shots, Butler has my vote.

    On Defence, many interesting things were said. Ceez said he does not defend. While that is not true (Kleiza showed he was capable of defending) I do not think Kleiza will do well with Dwane Casey defence. As we have seen, that is not a factor with Butler, and imo he is doing very well on D. This link at http://www.sportsoverdose.com/nba-players/linas-kleiza says that Kleiza is hoping to return mid January. If that is true, with the shortened season and lack of practice, I find it hard to believe that Kleiza will be able to grasp this defence, and I think he will become a liability.

    With Butler's contract, and the fact that we can just trust him more then Kleiza right now, I would say Butler is better then Kleiza. All my opinion.

    Hope I helped ya out WJF.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    I agree that he will struggle to find his place on Casey's Offense/Defense, but there is something else to consider. Kleiza is a 6"8 PF who was relegated to shooting 3's in Denver, so we figured he could shoot 3's for us here in Toronto. The fact is he was a post-up PF at Missouri and was a PF in Europe where he dominated for a year. He has the most refined post-up game on the Raptors, the best since Bosh. However, he is only 6'8, his shooting last year was below his historical average and injuries were a significant factor.

    Look, he is 7 years younger than Butler and I think yesterday against the Knicks was the first game where he score more than 1 FG. He is by far a better wing defender than Kleiza and has been shooting threes for much longer. The fact is Kleiza can rebound, shoot, and post-up is only 26 so I expect his shooting to improve. He's stronger than Amir and Davis so he'd be a good choice to defend physical power forwards.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Oh and just to address the people who said that Butler is not a consistent shooter, or that statistically Kleiza is a better shooter, that is all wrong. Kleiza shot 63% from the FT in Toronto, and less then .300 behind the three point line, while Butler has made almost a name for shooting threes. Even watching the NBA.com recap for the game yesterday, one of the things they said was, and I quote,

    "Rasual Butler! He has been known to take a three."
    "Yes he has."

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    Oh and just to address the people who said that Butler is not a consistent shooter, or that statistically Kleiza is a better shooter, that is all wrong. Kleiza shot 63% from the FT in Toronto, and less then .300 behind the three point line, while Butler has made almost a name for shooting threes. Even watching the NBA.com recap for the game yesterday, one of the things they said was, and I quote,

    "Rasual Butler! He has been known to take a three."
    "Yes he has."
    Kleiza, was injured in pre-season its the same reason Barbosa's numbers are down from when he was in Phoenix. And I said career numbers, not saying that last year he was a better player than Butler.

    Look, Butler shooting 3's reminds me of the glory days of Jamario Moon only difference being, Butler will proabaly only average 3 shots a game. He's a cross between an old Jamario and Antoine Wright, which is perfectly fine as a one year rental.

    If healthy, the team will go with Kleiza, JJ and a SF lottery pick going forward.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
    -"ďI ainít no diva! I donít have no blond hair, red hair. Iím Reggie Evans.Ē

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