Why so much love for Butler and Magloire?

[Raptor_11]

It's tough to agree with you Raptorsss. Like we said all last season, there was no accountability, which was leading to a sense of entitlement with our young players. Look. If ED and JJ want more minutes, they have to beat out the competition and earn it. Then they'll have to fight to keep it. I think this is a good thing.

Exactly!

[Raptorsss]

My thoughts exactly. This is rebuilding and at least they are not taking too much time from the young players. New post please!

It's tough to agree with you Raptorsss. Like we said all last season, there was no accountability, which was leading to a sense of entitlement with our young players. Look. If ED and JJ want more minutes, they have to beat out the competition and earn it. Then they'll have to fight to keep it. I think this is a good thing.

I don't know where we disagree? I am absolutely 100% in favour of the new culture change, I just want the young players to prove to the coach, that they deserve more playing time.

I'm worried that Forbes and Alabi are dead weight after these first 5 games.

[Raptorsss]

I think they have "earned" those minutes from Casey's perspective, because they are playing the game the way he is demanding it be played. It appears to me that JJ has lost some minutes because he's been benched a few times, after making completely boneheaded plays. I believe this is all part of the learning/mentoring process, whereby the young player get punished if they don't do what Casey wants them to, by watching less skilled, older veterans take their minutes, who are mentoring by example how the game should be played. If JJ (or any other young player you're referring to) where meeting Casey's expectations, I think you'd see them getting their full natural allotment of minutes - and the hope is that by learning from the veterans, they will earn back those minutes they are losing at the moment.

Excellent! Excellent! post you basically wrote, more susinctly the whole idea of my thread. As I said, I believe JJ and Forbes have shown that some, (or all) of their minutes should be given to Butler. The hope is that there is a gradual trend of JJ and maybe Forbes, to earn those 9 extra minutes given too Butler.

I see those minutes as an example, of how far away we are from getting where we want to be. Since, Forbes and Alabi haven't earned any minutes are they dead weight?

[planetmars]

Excellent! Excellent! post you basically wrote, more susinctly the whole idea of my thread. As I said, I believe JJ and Forbes have shown that some, (or all) of their minutes should be given to Butler. The hope is that there is a gradual trend of JJ and maybe Forbes, to earn those 9 extra minutes given too Butler.

I see those minutes as an example, of how far away we are from getting where we want to be. Since, Forbes and Alabi haven't earned any minutes are they dead weight?

I wouldn't say they're dead weight.. but I think they are end of the bench guys. They'll only get minutes in blow outs, or if there are injuries. 5 games in most of our players are healthy. In a shortened season with many back 2 backs, I can see more time for Alabi/Forbes when we need healthy energetic bodies. At this point in the season we still have a chance to compete and make the playoffs. Casey is going to do whatever it takes to win since he's a head coach and wins are vital to help him get another job in the league if he was ever fired by the Raps.

However if the Raps start losing a tone of games, and there is no hope in sight for the playoffs.. I can see a lot more minutes for the guys who we need to develop and watch like Alabi, Forbes, Davis and Bayless, and less time for the veterans like Magloire, Carter and Butler.

[p00ka]

As i said, they are fine as one year veteran rentals, but the fact that they have a significant role with the Raptors shows how weak this team is. Butler is at best a 3rd string small forward (he split-back up duties with the rookie Aminu, behind Ryan Gomes (yikes!) in LAC, and barely saw the floor in chicago and was behind kyle korver on the depth chart, which is the equivalent of playing behind jason kapono.

Basically, I figured going into the season that the idea was for JJ to play 3/4 of the minutes and Butler to share minutes with Forbes as the back-up 3.

Also, Magloire shouldn't be playing, really. The centre spot was to be Amir/Gray with Bargs and Davis getting the odd chance to guard opposing 5's. It's great that Casey likes playing his veterans on a young team, but I want to see Forbes and Alabi get minutes, even at the cost of winning games.

To me Forbes is in an unoffical battle with Weems for the back-up 2 next year and we need to see if Alabi can be our 3rd string centre next year. If Casey doesn't think they can play in the NBA, BC should cut them and find equivalent players who Casey can use, since its important that this team have both a young centre and a 2-3 guard who can be a part of this team next year.

This year, Casey seems more focused on winning than evaluating the talent. When winning this year is secondary to building a team for next year, where we feel we'll begin to have a competitive team we can build from.


This is what our team should look like next year.

1.Calderon,Bayless,Carter (or equivalent veteran)
2.Derozan, (Weems or Forbes, or someone else), and our new draft pick.
3. JJ, draft pick, Kleiza (with each getting around 10 minutes per game)
4. Bargnani, Davis, Amir, Kleiza
5. Amir, Val, (one of Alabi, Gray, another young centre).

Magloire as your token Torontonian in a suit.

Dude, what you really seem to be saying is that the way Casey's handling the stated goals doesn't fit what you would do, or what you thought would transpire with this/that player. I can't speak to where you got some of these understandings of what was going to transpire this year with playing time at the 3/4/5 or what will be the battle for backup 2 next year, but so far it seems Casey is doing exactly what he said he would do this year.
BTW, small point, but what you feel should be the team next year has 17 (2 over the limit) players on it and it's way too early in this development/evaluation year to assume even half of them will be here next year.

[Raptorsss]

Dude, what you really seem to be saying is that the way Casey's handling the stated goals doesn't fit what you would do, or what you thought would transpire with this/that player. I can't speak to where you got some of these understandings of what was going to transpire this year with playing time at the 3/4/5 or what will be the battle for backup 2 next year, but so far it seems Casey is doing exactly what he said he would do this year.
BTW, small point, but what you feel should be the team next year has 17 (2 over the limit) players on it and it's way too early in this development/evaluation year to assume even half of them will be here next year.

Actually, I only have 14 players listed (however Forbes is signed next year as well, so him and Weems would make 15) . I slotted the lottery pick in both the two and three Amir 4/5, Kleiza 3/4. I just will be looking at the minutes between the veterans and youngsters, to get an idea of how this team is progressing. I may be reading too much into things, but so be it.

[insight_tor]

They are fine because they don't take away touches from DeRozan, AB, Ed Davis and A. Johnson. The both of them are washed up, but they accepted the role of one year rental veterans doing the dirty work.

[SandmanFan]

So why was Davis losing minutes? Magloire out playing him? Sounds more like Magloire 'out efforting' him and Davis was being held accountable for his play.

Raptors head coach Dwane Casey didn’t like what he saw out of Ed Davis in recent games against New York and Orlando and let the second-year power forward know about it.
...
Casey said Davis was not running hard enough and that’s why he pulled him aside to watch video on Wednesday morning.

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[Puffer]

So why was Davis losing minutes? Magloire out playing him? Sounds more like Magloire 'out efforting' him and Davis was being held accountable for his play.

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Great to see Casey holding Ed accountable. He played better against Cleveland on Wednesday.

[Matt52]

So why was Davis losing minutes? Magloire out playing him? Sounds more like Magloire 'out efforting' him and Davis was being held accountable for his play.



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I hope all players get this treatment if needed. So far it seems they have set JJ and ED straight. I hope if Amir or Andrea or DD or Barbosa or whoever needs this type of treatment it is given. I use to play for a coach who treated his starters, and especially 'star' players, like absolute sh!t. It was almost so bad guys on the 2nd string didn't want to start because they knew what would happen - lol.

[e2thed]

I hope all players get this treatment if needed. So far it seems they have set JJ and ED straight. I hope if Amir or Andrea or DD or Barbosa or whoever needs this type of treatment it is given. I use to play for a coach who treated his starters, and especially 'star' players, like absolute sh!t. It was almost so bad guys on the 2nd string didn't want to start because they knew what would happen - lol.

Barbosa got the treatment last game, after he shot that dumb ass deep three.

[MangoKid]

Barbosa got the treatment last game, after he shot that dumb ass deep three.

I'm pretty sure the shot clock was winding down and he just threw it up.

[Vincent]

100% agree. They are only meant to help change the culture and instill the hard working, defensive work ethic in the young core players.

+1

Maglore is also in better shape and he brings toughness. There has not been very many easy baskets against the Raptors so far this year.

[e2thed]

I'm pretty sure the shot clock was winding down and he just threw it up.

He caused it to run down, by not attacking the zone, that's why he was benched after that play.

[NoPropsneeded]

he still hit it and how did he cause it? Ed was holding on to the ball for like 10 seconds and then he passed it to barbosa and he drained a hail mary 3.

[Raptorsss]

Magloire and Butler are stilll turrrible, Kleiza and Gray can't healthy soon enough.