View Poll Results: Which would you rather in the 2011-12 season?

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  • make the playoffs

    18 37.50%
  • high lottery pick

    30 62.50%
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Thread: Who brought the downer to the party?

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  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Who brought the downer to the party?

    Buzz kill time.

    The Raps are at .500 after playing some really good ball against good and bad teams.

    Things are going so well after a short period of time with a new coach, new systems, etc. that many are whispering (or shouting!) p-l-a-y-o-f-f-s.

    Something to remember: last year the Raptors started 2-9 in their first 11 games. They then went 6-2 for a record of 8-11 and were sniffing the 7/8th seed. Wins came versus PHI (2x), BOS, HOU, OKC, and WSH with a close loss to BOS and a blowout loss to ATL. At that time people started whispering playoffs. We know what happened next. The Raps finished the year 14-47.

    So what is my point, other than to be a d!ck? It is still early.


    That brings me to another early season issue.

    Would you rather make the playoffs or get a high lottery pick?

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    With the draft as deep as it is, just being being in the running for the 8th seed would give these young guys a nice boost going into the key 2012-13 Season. Though I don't believe we will be in contention for the playoffs, I don't think it would be a bad thing.

    But if the question is, what would I rather? I'd rather get Barnes, so High Lottery Pick.
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  3. #3
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    For me, MKG (Gilchrist) is a better option for the Raptors. But I think his draft stock is going to keep climbing and he might be harder to snag than Barnes when all is said and done.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Bouncepass wrote: View Post
    For me, MKG (Gilchrist) is a better option for the Raptors. But I think his draft stock is going to keep climbing and he might be harder to snag than Barnes when all is said and done.
    agree completely. the only thing barnes has on MK-G (IMO) is a more polished offensive game...but all the intagibles go to MK-G, and by all accounts, his shooting has improved quite a bit, and should continue to do so. he's getting raves about his bball IQ, intensity/effort, defensive-awareness, rebounding, etc. me likey...
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  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    What would I rather?

    I would rather make the playoffs - on these conditions:

    1) Bargnani's play is legit. If it is, I hate to tell you Bargs-haters, we have our franchise player.
    2) DD continues to develop. He appears to have range. Now get stronger to help him finish and play better D.


    With JV appearing to be the C of the future, the Raps have no need for a high draft pick in this draft class when the top players are PF's and C's. The draft class is very deep so they will be able to address areas of need with a pick at 15 (wing and back up/future PG).

    Also they have cap space for free agency. If the Raps make the playoffs given their roster, how much credibility does it give them in pursuing a top-tier free agent.

    They also have cap space for trades.


    While I selected playoffs, I won't be horribly disappointed with a high lotto pick. I think the worst case scenario is just missing the playoffs and picking 12-14. There are some really bad east teams right now.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What would I rather?

    I would rather make the playoffs - on these conditions:

    1) Bargnani's play is legit. If it is, I hate to tell you Bargs-haters, we have our franchise player.
    2) DD continues to develop. He appears to have range. Now get stronger to help him finish and play better D.


    With JV appearing to be the C of the future, the Raps have no need for a high draft pick in this draft class when the top players are PF's and C's. The draft class is very deep so they will be able to address areas of need with a pick at 15 (wing and back up/future PG).

    Also they have cap space for free agency. If the Raps make the playoffs given their roster, how much credibility does it give them in pursuing a top-tier free agent.

    They also have cap space for trades.


    While I selected playoffs, I won't be horribly disappointed with a high lotto pick. I think the worst case scenario is just missing the playoffs and picking 12-14. There are some really bad east teams right now.
    Well said, I agree. There is more than one way to develop, growing from within like we are doing, add to that JV, and a nice free agent piece next year, to a team that is able to make the playoffs as is, and we might have a pretty good team on our hands. Colangelo already said that this draft is so deep that we will be getting a good player even if our pick is later in the draft. I think Colangelo and the raptors scouting team are very good at evaluating talent (derozan, Davis, JV) and I have faith that we will get a good player no matter where we pick.

    Love the improvement defensively, love the play of DD and Bargnani, the crazy thing about that duo is: They are still improving. That is right this is not their ceiling, if they can continue to play defense, we know we can score, add JV, a 1st round pick, and a nice free agent piece, and we are good to go!

  7. #7
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    High lottery pick. We are still nowhere near a contending team. I'm happy with our improvement on D, that fact the Bargs is starting to show me something, and that DD is playing the best ball of his career. That being said, it would be the worst case scenario pushing for the 8th seed in the East.

    This team needs a high draft pick to ensure that we have a chance to be a contending team at least 3-5 years from now (Not sure if that's possible with BC as GM, assuming he still is in that time frame, but I'll leave that thought for another discussion). Especially with this year being one of the deeper drafts in years.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I keep reminding myself that it's a deep draft and there's lots of great talent in the middle

    (I'm biting my fist)
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  9. #9
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Building something potentially great and consistently in the playoffs or first round and out. I think it's an easy choice. Bargs can play great and we can still lose, it's happened 3 times already. Raptors are prone to 4th quarter collapse.

  10. #10
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    with the way bargs is playing right now, and if he keeps it up the majority of the season, we'd have our first all-star since bosh. but that wouldn't nearly be enough to make a successful playoff run. we simply need more talent, and i believe in finding that talent through the draft. derozan may be a good piece, but he doesn't seem to have perennial all-star written on him. and any all-star you get through free-agency would almost always have a high price tag accompanying him. therefore the only sensible way i can see us getting good talent is through the draft or through trade.

    we need to get lucky and draft a superstar, however high or low we pick.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    The only fear I have in the Raptors making or even flirting with a playoff spot is that BC takes a 180 degree turn on the rebuilding and makes a flurry of free agent signings again and sets us back another 3-5 years. The fact that he was itching to do it this past offseason shows he still hasn't quite learned his lesson yet. Thank goodness for Ed Stefanski, but if we make the playoffs, who's going to win that argument? (btw this is purely hypothetical. I still think we win 15 games or less.)

    The draft looks good, but you never know with that -- you could end up drafting a guy who is injured all the time, or, just plain sucks.
    Last edited by ebrian; Thu Jan 5th, 2012 at 09:49 AM.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    I think i'd rather continue adding talent through the draft. I love the organic growth that has happened the last 3 years, and would love to see that continue. But if we make the playoffs i'm ok with that too (it would be an affirmation of the process IMO). A part of me wants to let this group get some playoff experience, play in some big games, and then get hungry for getting to the next level. Let the new kids coming in feed off of that and let our current roster turn into the mentors for the next group. Either way, te culture is changing and i'm excited to see where it will take us.

    On another note, if we do make the playoffs this season, don't look for Colangelo to change his team philosophy and start over paying washed up veterans. After all it would be that philosophy that got us there. Sustained growth is the key, and he knows it. His job depends on it.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote c_bcm wrote: View Post
    I think i'd rather continue adding talent through the draft. I love the organic growth that has happened the last 3 years, and would love to see that continue. But if we make the playoffs i'm ok with that too (it would be an affirmation of the process IMO). A part of me wants to let this group get some playoff experience, play in some big games, and then get hungry for getting to the next level. Let the new kids coming in feed off of that and let our current roster turn into the mentors for the next group. Either way, te culture is changing and i'm excited to see where it will take us.

    On another note, if we do make the playoffs this season, don't look for Colangelo to change his team philosophy and start over paying washed up veterans. After all it would be that philosophy that got us there. Sustained growth is the key, and he knows it. His job depends on it.
    This is my worry as well. But the better part of me thinks Colangelo is 100% committed to the rebuild. And to a team like this current Raptors team, a playoff run is comparable to the finals. These guys havent been to the playoffs in 4 years. Demar has never been to the playoffs. Imagine what it will do to their psyche if they reach the playoffs?? Imagine how crazy it will be in Toronto, with all the major sports teams not reaching the post-season in the past couple of years?? I think it will instill in them that "Hey, we're actually good enough to get to the playoffs". I bet you Demar and Andrea will work doubly hard next season just to get that feeling again.

  14. #14
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    Playoffs are great for a team that can expect that kind of success consistently.

    This Raptor team cannot imo.

    A high draft pick would be great and this draft does have some potential good players in it but I'm starting to see WAY too much emphasis on how good this draft is and quite frankly, there will be some stars in this draft and some busts so there are no guarantees there.

    After weighing both options I feel a high draft pick is better because it adds more talent to a thin roster. Whether or not you feel that Bargnani, DeRozan or Calderon have turned a corner and are going to be all-stars they still don't have the talent to be a consistently good team which I think most fans want. The teams that I see that are considered contenders (Miami, OKC, Chicago, LA Clips-Lakers, Dallas, etc) have either drafted top tier talent consistently, or they have gone out and acquired stars via Free agency. I don't see FA being the best option for the Raps yet (it never has in the past) and with the CBA the way it is investing in young talented players and getting them locked in at rookie scale wages for the time being should be the way to go.

    It will be interesting to see if BC stays the course.

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    The only fear I have in the Raptors making or even flirting with a playoff spot is that BC takes a 180 degree turn on the rebuilding and makes a flurry of free agent signings again and sets us back another 3-5 years. The fact that he was itching to do it this past offseason shows he still hasn't quite learned his lesson yet. Thank goodness for Ed Stefanski, but if we make the playoffs, who's going to win that argument? (btw this is purely hypothetical. I still think we win 15 games or less.)

    The draft looks good, but you never know with that -- you could end up drafting a guy who is injured all the time, or, just plain sucks.
    Wow, 12-60 the rest of the way?? That sounds pretty tough to swallow now that they've been playing so well early on...

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    Wow, 12-60 the rest of the way?? That sounds pretty tough to swallow now that they've been playing so well early on...
    That would be 12-48 the rest of the way.

    But I agree with your point. We'll win more than 15 games this year.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    That would be 12-48 the rest of the way.

    But I agree with your point. We'll win more than 15 games this year.
    Wow, super brainfart on my math skills there! Lol
    I'm sticking with my original 19 wins for now but I may have to change my mind by February.
    Then again after tonights Nets game I believe 10 of the next 14(Nilanka, right?) are on the road which may make or break the playoff chances.

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Rookie your mom's Avatar
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    I think it's funny the kind of luck the Raptors have, the moment we are ready to write them off and EXPECT the losses to pile up, they surprise us and start being a decent team. I voted playoffs, because I myself am a firm believer that for true growth to happen, these players need to play games that matter, AKA postseason play. I think once we have JV building through the draft has been (almost) complete, with Bargs, Derozan, JV and Davis as a good core with a good supporting cast/trade options. We have the cap space to sign a 3 with talent, so why not go all in? Either or this season is going to be more entertaining than the last 4 combined.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    The Raptors could have the best of both worlds: make the playoffs AND get a high draft pick.

    How?

    Combine their own draft pick with Ed Davis to trade up.

    There are another 60 games left to see what type of effort Bargnani gives but, assuming he keeps playing hard, it is clear with the addition of JV one of Amir or ED will have to go.


    Bargnani is, in my opinion, putting up franchise player calibre numbers on offense. Defense is still a work in progress but the improvements are noticeable there as well.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    y'know, i'd normally be on the 'high lotto pick' side all the way, and still am (for the most part), but the depth of this draft & the tease of picking for need (vs. best available) leads me to think that they might actually be better off with a mid top-10 pick (i.e. in the 4-8 range) vs. a top-3 pick. as matt mentioned, the top of the board is heavy with PF, the one position that doesn't seem to be much of a 'need' (though with a team that's slated for <20 wins, that's debatable). clearly, based on current and near-future roster spots, SF & PG (in that order) are the most dire needs. and since i have an irrational man-crush on MK-G...i kinda/sorta hope that they land in a position in the lottery that gets them him, without having it be too high a pick (i.e. i wouldn't want them to pass on a consensus 'better' player to select him based on need). though to be honest, i can see him jumping up the board into the top-5 by year-end anyway. as it stands, if things fall into place as they 'should,' the raps will likely wind up with a pick in the top-10, and with any luck, higher, and will hopefully have a chance to pick either MK-G or barnes (who i like, but not as much as MK-G).
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