Who brought the downer to the party?

[joey_hesketh]

Yo I keep saying this: LOOK AT THE PACERS!. They sucked for a while around 500 usually finishing 9th in the east, but look at their history:

Pick 15 Kawhi Leonard - Turned into George Hill
Pick 10 Paul George
Pick 13 Tyler Hansborough
Pick 17 Danny Granger
Pick 17 Roy Hibbert

Now they got a lotta good youngens and signed David West. Contender? Not quite. But close.

Dont forget! We still got JV coming. There's your high pick!

But this exactly it, and I said this at the begining of the Season: The Pacers are the New Hawks. They'll make the playoffs for a few years, spend money on midlevel guys, and then be unable to make the next step. The Pacers thought Granger was that Elite Level Perennial All-Star, and paid him like it. He's clearly not. But they now need that to take the next step in my opinion.

Again, I'm NOT against making the playoffs. I don't think it will happen, but I'd certainly welcome it.
I'm just saying that in order to become the next Oklahoma (And NOT the next Hawks) we need to land ourselves those Key, Young pieces through good scouting and good drafting.

[Employee]

But this exactly it, and I said this at the begining of the Season: The Pacers are the New Hawks. They'll make the playoffs for a few years, spend money on midlevel guys, and then be unable to make the next step. The Pacers thought Granger was that Elite Level Perennial All-Star, and paid him like it. He's clearly not. But they now need that to take the next step in my opinion.

Again, I'm NOT against making the playoffs. I don't think it will happen, but I'd certainly welcome it.
I'm just saying that in order to become the next Oklahoma (And NOT the next Hawks) we need to land ourselves those Key, Young pieces through good scouting and good drafting.

I hear what your saying. Like I said they're not there yet. But they have a lot of nice pieces that you could trade for a real franchise type player. George hasn't nearly peaked yet and Hasborough is 6th man of the year potential. Plus the Pacers' payroll is $30 mil less right now than the Hawks!

And I think in order to be the next Thunder it's basically 90% luck.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

But this exactly it, and I said this at the begining of the Season: The Pacers are the New Hawks. They'll make the playoffs for a few years, spend money on midlevel guys, and then be unable to make the next step. The Pacers thought Granger was that Elite Level Perennial All-Star, and paid him like it. He's clearly not. But they now need that to take the next step in my opinion.

Again, I'm NOT against making the playoffs. I don't think it will happen, but I'd certainly welcome it.
I'm just saying that in order to become the next Oklahoma (And NOT the next Hawks) we need to land ourselves those Key, Young pieces through good scouting and good drafting.

The thing is, it could happen to the Raptors too. You draft a kid who can potentially be your franchise player, he then gives you 45%FGM, 40%3PTM, 25pts/6rebs/2asts per game and then you pay him max money and eventually you figure out you overpaid. Much like the Pacers on Granger. Or worse, the kid plays his rookie contract and leaves for a bigger-market team. Or even worse, you draft the kid and he doesnt even want to play here at all but you force him and you have Demarcus Cousins Jr in your hands. With sign and trades, you know what youre getting. You know the player signed so he at least wants to be here, and you already know what that player is capable of. Forget Hedo coz i really think he's schizo.

Sorry for changing my mind, but i wouldnt actually mind it at all if they didnt make the playoffs this year, but please, make this be the last time! hahahaha if they draft at least a decent player, plus JV and cap space, i have no doubt theyll at least make the playoffs next season.

[NoPropsneeded]

We should draft Miller he reminds me a lot of KD. Long, Athletic, skinny, good jumpshot, and crafty at getting to the rim.

[e2thed]

We should draft Miller he reminds me a lot of KD. Long, Athletic, skinny, good jumpshot, and crafty at getting to the rim.

+1, I bet he will be around the 11-13th pick anyhow, I just hope Baylor loses a couple games so his value drops a bit so he goes under the radar a bit.

[planetmars]

With good management you could essentially have both. You trade what you have (2012 1st or 2nd pick, 2013 1st or 2nd pick + non core pieces (Barbosa, Bayless?, Kleiza?, Bargnani? etc) to try and get yourself moved up in the lottery. If they make the playoffs it starts establishing a winning mentality that they can feed on from one year to the next which can start creating that winning culture. It also creates recognition. All those pundits who thought the Raptors would be one of the worst teams would start paying attention, and start praising the team for what they have and where they will be going. This could entice top free agents to start thinking Toronto as a possible destination.

However between the two choices given.. playoffs or *high* draft pick. The answer to me is quite simple. I want a championship team, not just a playoff contender. I want a team that can easily compete with Miami/OKC/Chicago and be talked about as a favourite every year. In order to do that you need a stud. We simply don't have that, and to get one via trade/free agency is very difficult. If it was 2011 or 2013 then the decision would be reversed, but I can't say that in 2012 unfortunately - not with this draft class.

[Puffer]

... All those pundits who thought the Raptors would be one of the worst teams would start paying attention, and start praising the team for what they have and where they will be going. This could entice top free agents to start thinking Toronto as a possible destination.

Except for veteran stars looking for a ring, the only thing a free agent cares about is who can give him max money. They'll go to a bad team that can throw max money at them (unless there is a good team that can match) because they know they can start whining, coasting and then demanding a trade. So forget about "enticing" top free agents because of a winning record and a good solid core. None of it means a thing if you don't have cap space and the willingness to exceed the cap and pay the penalty, because there will always be another team that will.

[NoPropsneeded]

screw everything else and free agency. BC better be sending his army of scouts out to scout the crap out of every player projected to be top 14 we need a stud player this draft no bullshit.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

I rest my case.
Aint no way theyre making the playoffs.

Draft here we come!

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Except for veteran stars looking for a ring, the only thing a free agent cares about is who can give him max money. They'll go to a bad team that can throw max money at them (unless there is a good team that can match) because they know they can start whining, coasting and then demanding a trade. So forget about "enticing" top free agents because of a winning record and a good solid core. None of it means a thing if you don't have cap space and the willingness to exceed the cap and pay the penalty, because there will always be another team that will.

You guys think we have a shot at getting Westbrook?

[NoPropsneeded]

nope