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Thread: Russell Westbrook For Jose calderon and Bargs

  1. #1
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    Default Russell Westbrook For Jose calderon and Bargs

    We get rid of Andrea's contract and JC's defensive liability and we have one of the best backcourts of the NBA.
    Why would they do it ? because they need a pure PG to pass the ball to KD and Harden, plus they would get Bargs who would be able to play 4 off the bench of could even play the 3 along side Perk and Ibaka, no pressure to Rebound he would just either come off the bench and score or play the 3 with JC,KD,Bargs,ibaka and Perk.

    While the Raps are left with cap space and Big ED gets in at the 4 Jammal Magloire plays center for the year until JV comes next year and dominates !

    Westbrook, DD,JJ,Big Ed and JV for next year plus who ever we can get in a loaded draft which hopefully is Harrison Barnes cause we need a true 3.
    Last edited by Top5Pick; Fri Dec 30th, 2011 at 12:37 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    The last three games, JC has shown he is quite capable one on one. He has not been a liability on defense. Will he be a liability going forward? Will his hammys give him trouble again? I have been very pleased with Mr. Calderons performance on the defensive end so far this season. I wonder if the problems in the past were more of Triano's lack of a defensive system?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I don't think the trade would work. Westbrook is near the end of his rookie contract, and to therefore swing a deal you have to include other pieces.

    Here is a trade scenario I cooked up:
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=cymhtng

    OKC gets Bargnani, Bayless, Forbes and our 2012 pick.
    Toronto gets Westbrook, Collison and Hayward.

    Hayward/Forbes are thrown in to make the trade work.

    Why does OKC do this? This will split up Westbrook and Durant, so Durant can remain as the alpha dog in the team. They get in exchange Bargnani who is a legitimate scorer to help Durant. He can be paired up with Perkins and/or Ibaka (two defensive guys). Bayless can help backup Maynor who's actually pretty good. The sweetener is the 2012 pick (probably top 5/7).

    Toronto gets Westbrook. Collison is a reasonable big at a reasonable salary (but not as talented as Bargnani). The downside is we lose that pick, however if we are getting a franchise player in return, it shouldn't be a big loss. The California connection with Derozan/Amir is a plus as well.

    Westbrook is not a pure point guard though, but I think Westbrook has the potential to become one. The question is - would you give up our draft pick (probably top 5 in a loaded draft) for Westbrook who might be a sure thing?

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I'm not sure Westbrook is a sure thing by any means.

    I don't like his game. I don't his attitude. His ego is to big to be comfined in a team system.

    Very few Point Guards who insist on taking alot of shots are ever really that good at distributing as well. They'll get assist numbers, but more forced than within the system.

    Look at Stephon Marbury. He's got SPARKLING career numbers in the NBA. Minus his last couple of seasons, his numbers were Hall of Fame worthy. BUT he could never REALLY do within a system and make his teammates better. I see Westbrook as very much the same type of player.

    I'll pass.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure Westbrook is a sure thing by any means.

    I don't like his game. I don't his attitude. His ego is to big to be comfined in a team system.

    Very few Point Guards who insist on taking alot of shots are ever really that good at distributing as well. They'll get assist numbers, but more forced than within the system.

    Look at Stephon Marbury. He's got SPARKLING career numbers in the NBA. Minus his last couple of seasons, his numbers were Hall of Fame worthy. BUT he could never REALLY do within a system and make his teammates better. I see Westbrook as very much the same type of player.

    I'll pass.
    Yeah he can DEFEND,pass,REBOUND and score ?? yeah who wants that. As far as his ego goes that he wants to win bad and i like that shows he's a very competitive player, comparing him to Starbury just because of numbers is just horrible totally different players because Westbrook can play defense and is a very good slash and pass PG.

    Starbury was a breakdown PG and would find the open man with a good jumpshot, Westbrook is still working on his jumpshot but his upside is HUGE and Starbury does even come close to having the EXPLOSIVENESS that Westbrook has, I mean the guy can be just as dominating as Rose if his game comes together and it will.

    You pair him DD,JV and Big Ed who can all FINISH and the Raps can have one of the most athletic line ups in the NBA and if all we have to give up to get Westbrook is what planetmars suggested (except for the pick) than i think it would be a BARGAIN.

    sign me up.
    Last edited by Top5Pick; Fri Dec 30th, 2011 at 01:01 AM.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure Westbrook is a sure thing by any means.

    I don't like his game. I don't his attitude. His ego is to big to be comfined in a team system.

    Very few Point Guards who insist on taking alot of shots are ever really that good at distributing as well. They'll get assist numbers, but more forced than within the system.

    Look at Stephon Marbury. He's got SPARKLING career numbers in the NBA. Minus his last couple of seasons, his numbers were Hall of Fame worthy. BUT he could never REALLY do within a system and make his teammates better. I see Westbrook as very much the same type of player.

    I'll pass.
    It is tough to know the real dynamics of the team looking from the outside in. Look at how the media and PR teams portrayed MJ as an angel through the early 90's. It is quite clear the image of Jordan was very much different than the man himself. To another level of extreme, look at Tiger, same deal. What is my point? Who really knows if Durant is the super swell guy he is portrayed to be. Every good story needs a villain and a hero and clearly Westbrook is being made to be the villain - rightly or wrongly I do not know.

    Using this years stats are a little premature (and doesn't prove my point - lol!) but looking at last year, Westbrook averaged nearly 3 less shots per game than Rose, 3.5 less 3pt shots, half an assist more, 1 more FTA, half a rebound more, and half a turnover more. Their shooting percentage was near identical (.445 vs .442). Thibeau was quoted yesterday as having to turn Rose loose i.e. look for his own shot more.

    I think the criticism for Westbrook's game should apply to Rose as well - especially considering both teams were hugely successful last year (55 wins versus 62 for Chicago but in the weaker Eastern conference).

    Essentially, Westbrook has near MVP numbers but he is shadowed by the Durant hype machine put out by the NBA. I could see how that might get under a young player's skin ESPECIALLY with the media questioning every shot and giving all the credit for good team results to Durant while receiving all the credit for the negative team results.


    Personlly, I think Westbrook is a good PG and I like his game. I don't think his desire to be the 'man' is a bad thing. I would love to have him in Toronto. If giving up Bargnani and Calderon were the two big pieces needed to make it happen, lets get it done. Unfortunately, I think it will take much more than that to land him.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    rose needs to take shots cause the bulls had no second option until this year.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    rose needs to take shots cause the bulls had no second option until this year.


    And why only until this year? Since the only significant addition this year has been Rip Hamiltion, are you calling Hamilton a second option now - ahead of Deng and Boozer?

    You wouldn't classify Deng or Boozer who averaged 17 points each last year as adequate second options? I certainly would.

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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    rose needs to take shots cause the bulls had no second option until this year.
    the bulls havent had a 2nd option until this year with Rip ?? Do u even know anything about basketball, like Matt said they had an inside and outside option last year with Deng and Boozer.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Dec 30th, 2011 at 05:34 PM. Reason: reply not in line with forum guidelines

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    Quote Top5Pick wrote: View Post
    the bulls havent had a 2nd option until this year with Rip ?? Do u even know anything about basketball, like Matt said they had an inside and outside option last year with Deng and Boozer.
    Yes actually i do. Yes boozer and deng are good players but they aren't good 2nd options on a contending team. What i meant to say was they didn't have a proper 2 guard until this year. I still think they could have gotten a better SG then Rip but its still an improvement over Bogans

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    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    What about this, for the summer of 2012: Ed Davis, S&T Bayless, Forbes, rights to Weems, future picks/cash considerations for S&T Russell Westbrook, Eric Maynor and Cole Aldrich. Hey, for real guys, as for now, Ed is not impressing me at all, while Bargnani is doing a really good job on both ends of the floor. We bring back Barbosa and we have a pretty nice team, with Jonas and a top pick like Barnes joining the crew. Thoughts?
    Last edited by charlesnba23; Tue Jan 3rd, 2012 at 12:33 AM.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    What about this, for the summer of 2012: Ed Davis, S&T Bayless, Forbes, rights to Weems, future picks/cash considerations for S&T Russell Westbrook, Eric Maynor and Cole Aldrich. Hey, for real guys, as for now, Ed is not impressing me at all, while Bargnani is doing a really good job on both ends of the floor. We bring back Barbosa and we have a pretty nice team, with Jonas and a top pick like Barnes joining the crew. Thoughts?
    You're not getting WEstbrook AND Maynor. Maynor is their starter without RW in my opinion. He is young and holds his own.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    OKC is going to ask for Valanciunas and this year's first rounder for Westbrook - and that's just for starters. Presti isn't dumb. He's not gonna just give away his star point guard for trash. It's a nice wet dream to have, but it ain't happening.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    OKC is going to ask for Valanciunas and this year's first rounder for Westbrook - and that's just for starters. Presti isn't dumb. He's not gonna just give away his star point guard for trash. It's a nice wet dream to have, but it ain't happening.
    I'd actually be surprised if OKC wanted both JV and our first rounder.. OKC is past the rebuild. They are looking at contending and winning it all now, while Durant is entering into his prime.

    If the right 'assets' came along, it might make the trade worthwhile. Bargnani for example could fit perfectly in to that system. He would be flanked by one two defensive guys in Perkins and Ibaka, and with Durant who can also rebound/defend. He'd then be able to provide offense to help Durant out but not demand/keep the ball like Westbrook would. I do agree that Bargnani would not be enough.. but if we dangled a 2013 pick (and a second rounder) and perhaps another player like JJ to help backup Durant it might work. The 2012 pick is loaded with SF's and PF's. These are two positions that OKC does not need to fill if they have Durant and possibly Bargnani.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I don't think OKC will trade Westbrook until there is a serious breakdown with the team, and at this point I don't see that. This is not a simple case of replacing Marbury with Terrell Brandon and not missing a beat -- Westbrook is extremely talented and a key reason of why the Thunder are contenders. I think you would have to see the team essentially bow out of the first round or worse, Durant demanding they move Westbrook, before you see any kind of desperation on the Thunder's part.

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    If OKC are not rebuilding anymore and are contenders looking for a pure PG they would go for Steve Nash who would cost them almost nothing and really wants to win. They don't have to take over shtty contracts of Bargnani and Calderon.

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