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Thread: Jose Calderon: our PG of the future? Calderon impressed Casey (63)

  1. #41
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    Quote e2thed wrote: View Post
    Did you see what Sacramento,Milwaukee,Charlotte did last draft when BK was still on board. Desperate teams, calls for draft day steals.
    But that's in weak draft year - you trade for talent. In a strong draft year, you keep your pick. Look at the 2003 Draft (Lebron, Wade, CB4, etc...) for example. I don't recall any of the top 10 teams doing any draft day deals.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Jose was getting destroyed by D will and morrow, i definitely would not like him to be our pg of the future.

  3. #43
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    The way i see it the raps aren't too far off from contending. If i was BC, id package barbosa and a protected 2013 draft pick and a second rounder or cash at the deadline for a second draft pick for 2012. Prolly with a "win-now" team that needs scoring off the bench.

    Id like to draft barnes depending on where we end up at the end of this season, but its obvious our biggest need is a wing. Id use the second pick on kybongo.

    this offseason id sign nash to a 2-3 yr contract, 8-9mil/yr which is more than fair considering his age. He's said he'd play in toronto.

    Furthermore, id sign oj mayo as a free agent for 6-7mil/yr over 2 yrs to back demar.

    With valencius in the fold and a pg duo of nash/calderon running the team, we'd be a contending team esp the second unit. Kybongo would learn from the best and provide insurance for any injuries to nash/calderon.

    PG - nash/calderon/kybongo
    SG - derozan/mayo/scrub
    SF - barnes/j. johnson/ kleiza ( if not amnestied..but i wouldnt for jonas' sake)
    PF - bargnani/davis
    C - valenciunus/a. johnson/maglore

    Roster would total roughly 70-78 mil..7-8th overall in the nba.

    Lets not forget the canadian factor this would bring to the team as well

  4. #44
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    And for those with concerns with kybongos shooting, thats an easy fix for what he provides as a playmaker. I think this roster would make us instant contenders and sets us up for the future. Hopefully wed grt a ring with nash(what a story that would be) and hed soon retire. Even after next yr id keep jose on a MODEST 4yr contract 5-7mil/yr MAX, he deserves it IMO.

  5. #45
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Jose was getting destroyed by D will and morrow, i definitely would not like him to be our pg of the future.
    You may have noticed the way members of this board have been salivating over the chances of getting Williams in free agency. That is because he makes a practice of destroying PG's who try and guard him. Jose has been just fine guarding his opponents in 4 of the 5 teams he has faced so far.

    I'm thinking watch how he does for another 15 - 20 games before tossing him under the bus. So far, on the Raps, I rank him best of the 4 total players they have who can play a little PG (AC, Bayless and Barbosa) and would take him over any of the PGs from their opponents so far (aside from DW).

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    You may have noticed the way members of this board have been salivating over the chances of getting Williams in free agency. That is because he makes a practice of destroying PG's who try and guard him. Jose has been just fine guarding his opponents in 4 of the 5 teams he has faced so far.

    I'm thinking watch how he does for another 15 - 20 games before tossing him under the bus. So far, on the Raps, I rank him best of the 4 total players they have who can play a little PG (AC, Bayless and Barbosa) and would take him over any of the PGs from their opponents so far (aside from DW).
    The Raptors did very little to impress DWill prior to free agency in this game.

  7. #47
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    His injury history and desire to continue representing Spain in the summer (ie. no rest) is what always keeps me nervous about him.

    With that said, I'd be looking for more than a 2nd round pick or young prospect.
    Totally agree on the injury history .. and yup, playing international every summer doesn't help.
    As for what we can get back .. of course I would want more .. but given his contract (and the fact that everyone else knows about his injury history) ... I think 2nd rounder/prospect is all we can realistically expect. You might be an expiring contract who could at least eat up reasonable minutes (not sure who's out there .. but someone similar to what the Nets did in getting Okur .. but perhaps in SF form). However, thats basically irrelevant, because presumably you wouldn't resign whoever that is.

    All that said . I think Id still do the deal (and id jump in feet first if it sniffed of even a late first rounder from a contender). Last night was a harsh reminder of the fact we simply aren't good .. and we need to be focused on the future .. because this year is a right off one way or the other ...

  8. #48
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Totally agree on the injury history .. and yup, playing international every summer doesn't help.
    As for what we can get back .. of course I would want more .. but given his contract (and the fact that everyone else knows about his injury history) ... I think 2nd rounder/prospect is all we can realistically expect. You might be an expiring contract who could at least eat up reasonable minutes (not sure who's out there .. but someone similar to what the Nets did in getting Okur .. but perhaps in SF form). However, thats basically irrelevant, because presumably you wouldn't resign whoever that is.

    All that said . I think Id still do the deal (and id jump in feet first if it sniffed of even a late first rounder from a contender). Last night was a harsh reminder of the fact we simply aren't good .. and we need to be focused on the future .. because this year is a right off one way or the other ...
    It is too bad a team the Lakers don't have a contract that fits Toronto or a trade exemption to swallow Calderon's deal. The Lakers would be a really good fit for Calderon in my opinion. They have 2 first round picks that when all is said and done will likely both be in the 20's and would be nice to package to move in to the 15-18 range.

    Although if a third team was brought in.......

  9. #49
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    Calderon's play last night was solid on the offensive side, the best player in that respect in a white jersey. I think it's a little harsh to throw him under the bus because he can't guard DWill. There's few in the league who can keep him in front of them.

  10. #50
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    ... I think 2nd rounder/prospect is all we can realistically expect. ..
    Then what's the point of trading Calderon? Jose can be a definite asset on the Raptors next year, when JV and their 2012 draft pick are on board. And after BC spends some money on a free agent. I still don't understand this driving desire to get rid of Calderon for a bag of peanuts and a pat on the head when he could be a significant part of the team for the next 4 years. He makes all scorers on the team better. You get rid of Calderon, who are you going to get that is as good, for less money?

    They hang on to Calderon, and he will likely resign for a couple more years for 2-3 million. That gives you JC for 4 years for $26 M or $6.5 million a year. Worth that easily. He is one of the top four PGs in the east.

  11. #51
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It is too bad a team the Lakers don't have a contract that fits Toronto or a trade exemption to swallow Calderon's deal. The Lakers would be a really good fit for Calderon in my opinion. They have 2 first round picks that when all is said and done will likely both be in the 20's and would be nice to package to move in to the 15-18 range.

    Although if a third team was brought in.......
    They only have one unless Dallas improves enough to be 20th pick or later, and they must retain one pick this year.

  12. #52
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    They only have one unless Dallas improves enough to be 20th pick or later, and they must retain one pick this year.
    I know which is why I said, "....when all is said and done they will likely both be in the 20's...."

  13. #53
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I know which is why I said, "....when all is said and done they will likely both be in the 20's...."
    ...must get sleep...helps...reading...the...actual...words. I read it as getting both their picks, not giving up ours for both their picks (assuming the Dallas one again.) since they have to have at least one pick. Sorry man.

  14. #54
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    ...must get sleep...helps...reading...the...actual...words. I read it as getting both their picks, not giving up ours for both their picks (assuming the Dallas one again.) since they have to have at least one pick. Sorry man.
    No worries. I should have mentioned the protections. I believe the protections are on until 2017.

  15. #55
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Then what's the point of trading Calderon? Jose can be a definite asset on the Raptors next year, when JV and their 2012 draft pick are on board. And after BC spends some money on a free agent. I still don't understand this driving desire to get rid of Calderon for a bag of peanuts and a pat on the head when he could be a significant part of the team for the next 4 years. He makes all scorers on the team better. You get rid of Calderon, who are you going to get that is as good, for less money?

    They hang on to Calderon, and he will likely resign for a couple more years for 2-3 million. That gives you JC for 4 years for $26 M or $6.5 million a year. Worth that easily. He is one of the top four PGs in the east.
    I guess thats where we disagree .. I just cant realistically see Jose being healthy enough to be effective 3-4 years from now. I just dont see it. He's been hurt what seems like each of the last 4-5 years (and the type of thing - his hammy) thats gonna continue to nag. On top of that, hes not the best athlete or defender even when healthy.

    I totally understand and appreciate what he brings to the team - they would be an even bigger mess this year than they already are without him .. hes a great floor general and when hes shooting well (like he has been this year) - he adds an extra dimension to the offense.

    BUT - hes limited defensively even at the best of times and I think hes got another year of two of runway in him before he breaks down physically. Maybe Im wrong and he will pull a Steve Nash part II .. but I just dont see it given the history

  16. #56
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    If Kabongo came out this year, he'd be worse than Avery Bradley in his rookie season. It was a mistake for Joseph to come out last year, and it would be a mistake for Kabongo to come out this year. DraftExpress has him coming out in 2013 and hope that is when he decides to declare. P.S. Pangos>>>Kabongo right now.

    On another note, I'm a huge Jose fan, but right now he's playing at an elite level and will have a high trade value. If I was BC I'd market Jose and Barbosa, for a back-up point guard and improvement over Barbosa. As an example, Jose + Barbosa for Duhon+ Redick.
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  17. #57
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    nope i'd rather have kabongo this year.

  18. #58
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    At 30 years of age, our spanish point guard is playing the best basketball of his career. That being said, if he continues to play at a high level throughout all the season, would you be ok with him as our starting PG for years to come, Which means when the team will be in complete winning mode?
    no
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  19. #59
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    nope i'd rather have kabongo this year.
    You mean you rather have him play in Erie, instead of Texas?
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
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  20. #60
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    No I'd rather have him on the raptors

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