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Thread: Small Forward Discussion

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default Small Forward Discussion

    Rasual Butler
    Offense
    - below NCAA standards for spot up shooting CLANG! below average passer. Does not really show indication of desire or ability to explode to the net against even an average defender.

    Defense
    - I suppose they brought him in to be a stopper. He has his moments but you see him get lost on assignments like when the took Jose of DWILL and put him on, Butler was no better

    Outlook
    - this guy cant leave town fast enough. How can I put it... he is hard to watch. I am not going to dump on BC for getting him because this season was all about the draft and getting minutes for young players. A really bad season could mean Raps 2nd round pick is a top PG which would make the memory of Butlers contribution fade quickly.

    James Johnson
    OFFENSE
    To date he has played 111 games (1,760 min) which for all intents and purposes makes him barely a sophomore. By contrast DeRozen has played 167 game (4700 mins). He shows some explosiveness and mismatch ability which appears promising at times, even very promising.

    On the other hand his shot is inexplicably pudrid. His setup, release, set position right on down the line he doesn't even look like a pro who he gets a decent look.

    DEFENSE
    A superb defender. Naturally athletic great anticipation. Block on Iggy last night was made to look easy.

    OUTLOOK:
    If James spent as much time in the offseason on his shooting mechanics and reps as he did his ridiculous hair styles it would seem like he would be on track for trending his career up. He didn't and he although he may not shoot/brick his way out of the league his is rapidly developing a reputation player who should be the 5th option on the floor in an offensive set. (Ben Wallace... or will he put in the work??).

    Linas Kleiza
    Offense
    far more accomplished scorer than either of the other two. With any luck Butler will be a fixture on the bench next to Johnny Davis upon his arrival. From distance or on the block Kleiza's offensive game will be a welcome addition.

    Defence
    -Before his surgery he as among the weakest perimeter defenders in the league. I suspect little will change however the team is playing better collective defence so it may not be as pronounced.

    OUTLOOK:
    Drafting Harrison Barnes or Michael Gilchrist would be nice.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    What about GARY FORBES?
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    What about GARY FORBES?
    I think by not including him, all was said that needs to be said.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    What about GARY FORBES?
    please contribute to the thread. This is an open discussion.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I would personally like to see J.Johnson force fed minutes at the 3. Between Forbes and Butler, Johnson is the only player who "might" be considered part of the future core. But the only way to know for sure, is to play him heavy minutes.

    But I have a feeling Casey is more concerned with wins, than player evaluations. Which means, Johnson will likely remain part of the 2nd unit, and Kleiza (when cleared to play) will get his fair share of minutes too.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I would personally like to see J.Johnson force fed minutes at the 3. Between Forbes and Butler, Johnson is the only player who "might" be considered part of the future core. But the only way to know for sure, is to play him heavy minutes.
    I agree, it just doesn't need to be starting.

    But I have a feeling Casey is more concerned with wins, than player evaluations. Which means, Johnson will likely remain part of the 2nd unit, and Kleiza (when cleared to play) will get his fair share of minutes too.
    Casey is making effort a determination of playing time, hence the sitting of ED for a while as per the star interview with coach. This is an argument in favour of lots of playing time for JJ since he kills it with energy.

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    Can't believe I'm so looking forward to Kleiza's return.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I would personally like to see J.Johnson force fed minutes at the 3. Between Forbes and Butler, Johnson is the only player who "might" be considered part of the future core. But the only way to know for sure, is to play him heavy minutes.

    But I have a feeling Casey is more concerned with wins, than player evaluations. Which means, Johnson will likely remain part of the 2nd unit, and Kleiza (when cleared to play) will get his fair share of minutes too.
    In part I agree but it depends on the player. JJ needs to know NBA minutes are a commodity. Certain players don't get that and grow complacent. He does need to get major minutes but he needs to never take that for granted.... I think he is a little slow in picking up that concept still.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    We have not had an elite SF since Vince was playing the position. It has been a glaring hole for a while. We have had stop gap solutions with hedo, Marshall, garbosa but I think it's a intrical part that this team is lacking. We either need to draft a guy or sign a SF in free agency. James Johnson and kleiza are going to give us good depth but shouldn't be starting and Rasual is absolutely brutal ... Besides the Knicks game. He shouldn't be taking touches away from demar and bargs.

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    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    We have not had an elite SF since Vince was playing the position. It has been a glaring hole for a while. We have had stop gap solutions with hedo, Marshall, garbosa but I think it's a intrical part that this team is lacking. We either need to draft a guy or sign a SF in free agency. James Johnson and kleiza are going to give us good depth but shouldn't be starting and Rasual is absolutely brutal ... Besides the Knicks game. He shouldn't be taking touches away from demar and bargs.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    We have not had an elite SF since Vince was playing the position. It has been a glaring hole for a while. We have had stop gap solutions with hedo, Marshall, garbosa but I think it's a intrical part that this team is lacking. We either need to draft a guy or sign a SF in free agency. James Johnson and kleiza are going to give us good depth but shouldn't be starting and Rasual is absolutely brutal ... Besides the Knicks game. He shouldn't be taking touches away from demar and bargs.
    u forgot marion....would have been nice to have kept him instead of signing Turkydoodoo...hes the best 3 we have had since doug christie IMO....

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    James Johnson

    DEFENSE
    A superb defender. Naturally athletic great anticipation. Block on Iggy last night was made to look easy.

    OUTLOOK:
    If James spent as much time in the offseason on his shooting mechanics and reps as he did his ridiculous hair styles it would seem like he would be on track for trending his career up. He didn't and he although he may not shoot/brick his way out of the league his is rapidly developing a reputation player who should be the 5th option on the floor in an offensive set. (Ben Wallace... or will he put in the work??).
    Two things. One, he isn't a superb defender. He's too often gambling for steals and blocks and gets caught out of position. It's the reason he didn't play in Chicago and I guarantee you that it's one of the reasons he isn't playing as much here under Casey. It looks great when it works (e.g. Iggy block) bad when it doesn't (e.g. wide open Granger 3). Second, how do you know he didn't work on his jumper or his offensive game this offseason? Maybe this is what he is.

    A third thing: why the hell am I wasting my time commenting on James Johnson? Ugh.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quincy Miller to the rescue!

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Two things. One, he isn't a superb defender. He's too often gambling for steals and blocks and gets caught out of position. It's the reason he didn't play in Chicago and I guarantee you that it's one of the reasons he isn't playing as much here under Casey. It looks great when it works (e.g. Iggy block) bad when it doesn't (e.g. wide open Granger 3). Second, how do you know he didn't work on his jumper or his offensive game this offseason? Maybe this is what he is.

    A third thing: why the hell am I wasting my time commenting on James Johnson? Ugh.
    LOL because he might be a player. He has an NBA body with a schizophrenic play who lacks professionalism. He did not play in Chicago because:
    (a) he was 30lbs heavier and assumed the hard work was done once he was drafted in first round and became a millionaire
    (b) he was a rookie unworthy of taking minutes from the likes of Deng and Gibson

    Last year he got a wake up call AND worked his but off and had the initiative to ask for D-LEAGUE run... there is a start.

    Wake up call #2 seemed to come a few weeks back when he looked at how inept he was in the first few games of the season - he cut his hair and seemed to get a little more serious.... in his interviews and on the court.

    This could be his maturation process or we could just be seeing another guy with great physical gifts but the lack of professionalism and mental toughness/determination to see it through (Gerald Green).

    I wont go hard on him for the time being because:
    (a) he plays very hard
    (b) he has done his work in the gym to make his body right
    (c) as outlined before he has about 1/3 the minutes of DeRozen so he is just beginning to learn

    His decisions and shot efficiency must trend up or he everyone will loose patience with him.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Quincy Miller to the rescue!
    Not a huge fan of Q. Miller but I think you're correct in thinking that our long term answer at the SF spot is not yet on the roster.

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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Not a huge fan of Q. Miller but I think you're correct in thinking that our long term answer at the SF spot is not yet on the roster.
    I think that is a guarantee.

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    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    I'm hoping for Harrison Barnes. If we keep playing like we have the last two games that shouldn't be a problem lol.

    If we can't get him, I think we should trade down to a team with 2 picks and get either Quincy Miller, Gilchrist, Perry Jones, and maybe try to grab a PG.

    Ideally draft Harrison Barnes and trade for another draft pick for a PG (kabongo or Marshall would be sweet) that Jose can mentor.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    I'm hoping for Harrison Barnes. If we keep playing like we have the last two games that shouldn't be a problem lol.

    If we can't get him, I think we should trade down to a team with 2 picks and get either Quincy Miller, Gilchrist, Perry Jones, and maybe try to grab a PG.

    Ideally draft Harrison Barnes and trade for another draft pick for a PG (kabongo or Marshall would be sweet) that Jose can mentor.
    Kabongo would be great actually - However I think the chances of the Raps drafting Jones even if he were on the board are ZERO.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter Fuchan's Avatar
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    Any good non-american players coming up in the draft. When drafting with the raptors, you have the extra challenge of wondering if they will stay or go for national TV

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    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    May not have skill at the 3 spot, but there is depth. This season, I think we can let that slide. But yeah, next off season they better make it a priority to find a consistent option at that position. H Barnes would be nice, but at this point can anyone argue that he is a better looking NBA prospect than Kidd Gilchrest ???? KG is crazy

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