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Thread: Small Forward Discussion

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Rookie Prophet2k's Avatar
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    Butler looks terrible as a spot up three shooter who only occasionally makes a three, he should not be starting on any NBA team.

    James Johnson has the basketball IQ of my grandmother, I cringe at least 5 times per game with him. He's athletic and energetic and confident and his defence is tight, but the guy acts like he is the number one option on the floor. So either the coaching staff have given him a green light to create his own terrible shot or the coaching staff lacks the stones to nail the kid to the bench for his shenanigans.

    Kleiza has not impressed me yet and I am hoping that it was just because he was hurt and the surgery has fixed him. I wouldn't bet the farm on him being the SF to take this team to the promised land. Raps need a legit 3 one way or another.
    limpin ain't easy, but I make it look good...

  2. #22
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    I'd like to see JJ get more minutes simply becaues he's the only 3 on the roster who could actually turn into a useful player down the line for this team. Butler was once a sniper but can't hit the side of a barn anymore, Kleiza was never a good defender and is coming off microfracture surgery, so that won't change. He's also an amnesty candidate in the offseason for his albatross of a contract, and I highly doubt we can trade him for anything worthwhile.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Default An Idea

    Here is an idea: Play DD at the 3 to start the game, and have Bayless playing the 2 as the 6th man (barbosa's role), then have anthony carter playing as back up PG. Have James Johnson back up demar at the 3. This way we have a more talented starting lineup ... what do you guys think?

    Starting lineup would look like:

    PG- Calderon
    SG- Barbosa
    SF- Derozan
    PF- Bargnani
    C- A.Johnson

    Bench:

    PG- Anthony Carter
    SG- Bayless/Forbes
    SF-James Johnson/Butler
    PF- Davis/Kleiza
    C- Gray/Magloire

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Prophet2k wrote: View Post
    Butler looks terrible as a spot up three shooter who only occasionally makes a three, he should not be starting on any NBA team.
    currently shooting .240 from the field PU!
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    Here is an idea: Play DD at the 3 to start the game, and have Bayless playing the 2 as the 6th man (barbosa's role), then have anthony carter playing as back up PG. Have James Johnson back up demar at the 3. This way we have a more talented starting lineup ... what do you guys think?

    Starting lineup would look like:

    PG- Calderon
    SG- Barbosa
    SF- Derozan
    PF- Bargnani
    C- A.Johnson

    Bench:

    PG- Anthony Carter
    SG- Bayless/Forbes
    SF-James Johnson/Butler
    PF- Davis/Kleiza
    C- Gray/Magloire
    DeMar has a hard enough time guarding SG's, now you want him to guard longer and stronger SF's? He can't create any offence for himself as it is, how is he to do that vs. bigger stronger players who are just as mobile?

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    he can't, ignore that idea. the coaching staff needs to work with DeMar more to improve his dribbles and triple threat moves.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    DeMar has a hard enough time guarding SG's, now you want him to guard longer and stronger SF's? He can't create any offence for himself as it is, how is he to do that vs. bigger stronger players who are just as mobile?
    Demar is the same size as Rasual Butler ... actually he is 1 lb heavier than him, and I'm pretty sure he is more athletic which means that he could potentially be a much better defender than Butler.

    This lineup is already being used by Dwayne Casey to try and get some production from the 3 spot late in games.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    What do you think about Wilson Chandler?

    Here are my thoughts and what I consider a reasonable and possible way of getting him. The issue will be being finished in China prior to March 15th NBA trade deadline - regular season ends February 15, playoffs typically go until the end of March and
    Chandler is playing on one of the better teams.

    Chandler could easily be our starting 3. Coming off the bench you'd have Kleiza and JJ. To me that is a good combo as, depending on match ups, you have offense and defense possibilities along with both being able to play some at the 4 - again depending on match ups. You could sub one of JJ or Kleiza for DD and slide Chandler over to the 2 or take Chandler out and have him come in later for DD.

    I like the versatility he brings with being able to defend 2, 3, and 4's and he is a lockdown defender capable of hitting the 3 and rebounding. To top it off he is just 24 years old (25 in May). He would fit in nicely with the core moving forward.


    He is not a franchise player or superstar but making the big assumption that Bargnani is for real, I think we have our franchise player and he would be a nice complimentary piece.


    As it stands right now, the Raptors could offer him a contract starting at $6.5M per season. With Gallinari looking for an extension this summer, Afflalo locked up over 5 years and at over $8M per season, Corey Brewer under contract, and Jordan Hamilton (well, playing in D-League right now) the Nuggets may deem that to be too rich.


    Anyways, back to the original question: What do you think about Wilson Chandler?

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What do you think about Wilson Chandler?

    Here are my thoughts and what I consider a reasonable and possible way of getting him. The issue will be being finished in China prior to March 15th NBA trade deadline - regular season ends February 15, playoffs typically go until the end of March and
    Chandler is playing on one of the better teams.

    Chandler could easily be our starting 3. Coming off the bench you'd have Kleiza and JJ. To me that is a good combo as, depending on match ups, you have offense and defense possibilities along with both being able to play some at the 4 - again depending on match ups. You could sub one of JJ or Kleiza for DD and slide Chandler over to the 2 or take Chandler out and have him come in later for DD.

    I like the versatility he brings with being able to defend 2, 3, and 4's and he is a lockdown defender capable of hitting the 3 and rebounding. To top it off he is just 24 years old (25 in May). He would fit in nicely with the core moving forward.


    He is not a franchise player or superstar but making the big assumption that Bargnani is for real, I think we have our franchise player and he would be a nice complimentary piece.


    As it stands right now, the Raptors could offer him a contract starting at $6.5M per season. With Gallinari looking for an extension this summer, Afflalo locked up over 5 years and at over $8M per season, Corey Brewer under contract, and Jordan Hamilton (well, playing in D-League right now) the Nuggets may deem that to be too rich.


    Anyways, back to the original question: What do you think about Wilson Chandler?
    Oh yeah, one more thing regarding WIlson Chandler:

    Say he was signed in March, come June you have another trade chip. A team like Memphis that could be looking to move Rudy Gay or a team like Portland that might want to execute a sign and trade with a rich offer to Batum (or whatever) might look favourably on a young, reasonably priced wing player like Chandler coming back in return along with whatever other assets (prospects, picks, future picks, players).

  10. #30
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    Raptors has no starting SF ... Kleiza&Johnson may be a SF backup, but Butler is a 3rd string SF. We really need a slasher/shooter SF who can create his own jumper and score in bunches. Andrea become a good scorer but I don't see him a consistent game closer.

  11. #31
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Oh yeah, one more thing regarding WIlson Chandler:

    Say he was signed in March, come June you have another trade chip. A team like Memphis that could be looking to move Rudy Gay or a team like Portland that might want to execute a sign and trade with a rich offer to Batum (or whatever) might look favourably on a young, reasonably priced wing player like Chandler coming back in return along with whatever other assets (prospects, picks, future picks, players).
    I have long liked the idea of getting Chandler in here so am behind this idea.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Oh yeah, one more thing regarding WIlson Chandler:

    Say he was signed in March, come June you have another trade chip. A team like Memphis that could be looking to move Rudy Gay or a team like Portland that might want to execute a sign and trade with a rich offer to Batum (or whatever) might look favourably on a young, reasonably priced wing player like Chandler coming back in return along with whatever other assets (prospects, picks, future picks, players).
    I like this idea, you have got to pay atleast 5-6 million a year for a good rotation player in the NBA these days anyway.
    Are we sure of his lock down defender status though? His numbers offensively are quite impressive for such a young talent.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    I like this idea, you have got to pay atleast 5-6 million a year for a good rotation player in the NBA these days anyway.
    Are we sure of his lock down defender status though? His numbers offensively are quite impressive for such a young talent.
    Chandler made it to the NBA on his defense and has developed his offense.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Rookie Th0m79's Avatar
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    After having watched every game so far this year, I can honestly say that Rasoul Butler SUCKS. Dude can't hit a shot to save his life, and yet continues to chuck bricks at every opportunity. He should be run out of town on a rail. Even if Kleiza can't defend he can't come back fast enough to get this scrub nailed to the end of the bench where he belongs.

  15. #35
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    The only thing about Chandler is that we're not the only ones that would enter into the fray when it comes to offering a contract. You're going to have teams like the Nets who if they don't get Howard will throw stupid money at Chandler. At that point, you gotta ask - is Wilson Chandler worth 10M a year?

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I like Chandler.. but I don't see him as a starter if we turn the corner. $6.5M seems reasonable, however Kleiza makes $4.6M. If Calderon gets amnestied to free up cap space for a big stud like Westbrook (yes, this is likely not going to happen), then Kleiza will be on the books for another 2 years, as the last year is a player option. That would mean tying up $11M to two players who are not legit superstars.. puts kind of a bad taste in my mouth. I don't think Kleiza would be amnestied next year since I'm sure the Raps would want to have Kleiza mentor JV when he comes over. Although I'm not sure how legit that is since Utah had no problems getting rid of Okur even though they had Kanter. But I think Kleiza has a reasonable salary and can be moved in a trade for other pieces - once healthy of course.

    If Chandler can play the 2 then that actually helps quite a bit. You could theoretically have a lineup of JV, Bargs, Kleiza, Chandler and Jose. Some offense/some defense. Not too bad. This is especially useful if Derozan continues to go into a slump, and assuming that Barbosa is gone by the end of the year.

    So sign me up!

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    The only thing about Chandler is that we're not the only ones that would enter into the fray when it comes to offering a contract. You're going to have teams like the Nets who if they don't get Howard will throw stupid money at Chandler. At that point, you gotta ask - is Wilson Chandler worth 10M a year?
    Matt made the point that Chandler could be available in March. If Howard is not moved by the trade deadline (which is possible especially if Orlando is in the hunt for a top playoff seed), NJ may have to wait until the offseason. Toronto would have the upper hand on NJ since they don't need to wait for anyone, and can sign Wilson this year before the offseason. But there are other teams that may want Chandler's services as well. So Bryan would have to act fast if this is what he wants.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    The only thing about Chandler is that we're not the only ones that would enter into the fray when it comes to offering a contract. You're going to have teams like the Nets who if they don't get Howard will throw stupid money at Chandler. At that point, you gotta ask - is Wilson Chandler worth 10M a year?
    There will be few teams able to match what the Raptors can offer March when he becomes a free agent. You are absolutely correct when discussing suitors this summer. There is no way I would throw $10M at Chandler. The premise of my suggestion is based on a reasonable contract ($6-7M per season seems reasonable to me).

    The competition for his services in March (assuming highest bidders have the greatest chances) will be among (don't forget salary cap is just over $58M):

    1) Denver, first and foremost, because he is their RFA and have the right to match despite current payroll of $57M,
    2) Indiana with a payroll of $50M but they have George, Granger, Hil, and Jones at the 2 and/or 3,
    3) Sacramento with a payroll of $47M and a need for a good SF despite numerous options (Salmons, Garcia, Outlaw, and Honeycutt just aren't, well, good).

    Salary numbers came from HoopsHype.com. When looking at HoopsHype.com numbers though, keep in mind teams like LAC, MEM, UTA, and DET are missing some key contract extensions or free agent signings.


    Chandler may decide to sign a minimum or lower contract with a playoff team just for this season.

    He might also sign the qualifying offer (pro-rated) from DEN to make himself an UFA this summer and join what appears to be a playoff team.

    He might also go for the most money offered - of which Toronto could certainly be a contender.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Wed Jan 11th, 2012 at 09:55 AM.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    He might also go for the most money offered - of which Toronto could certainly be a contender.
    If the guy took a contract offer in China just to get a paycheck during a lockout, I would imagine that it's all about the money to him. I could be wrong though.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Sign Chandler to a 2 year contract and draft MKG or Millar. Suddenly your depth at SF is ridiculous instead of ridiculous.
    @jerboat

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