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Thread: Time for the Raptors to look at Bayless in a different light?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    I've always thought that role would be best for him...I feel PG vision isn't something he has, he just doesn't see the floor like Jose does. As for if he is worth 4M next year, I would say yeah because Barbosa will likely be gone and the Raptors will likely have a new PG (draft of FA). So a sixth man type role could be his (and he would be able to play more PG than Barbosa). He needs to play on a wing, in open floor where he can use his speed and handle

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    Isn't this basically what he was back in the Portland days? I seem to remember having these memories of him and Roy playing together and bringing Bayless off the bench for a nice scoring punch.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    The big question for me isn't whether Bayless would be effective in that role off the bench but whether or not he'd be willing to accept it. He wore out his welcome in two places already with beefs about playing time so I have my doubts on whether or not he'd be willing to get on board with a plan that would have him coming off the bench for the next few seasons and then actually stick with it. Bayless is quite adamant that he wants to be a starter in the NBA and I'm not sure he would buy into it for very long, if at all.

    One thing I am sure of is however is that Bayless is not the future of the PG spot in Toronto. He is a valuable player, ideally in the role that Matt52 described, but if he's not willing to accept that role at 24 years old then I'd suggest letting him leave and be someone's elses headache. He seems like someone that David Kahn would be willing to sign for big money.
    In his pre-season interview he seemed more passive and sounded like he wanted to play behind Jose and come off the bench as a scorer. Could be just me though.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Wow... this is the first time I had read Barbo's wingspan was 6'10". That is incredible.
    it was highlighted when he made that circus shot against the bulls the other day (falling to the floor, reaching around the defender and flippling the ball in...he looked like Stretch Armstrong)

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    it was highlighted when he made that circus shot against the bulls the other day (falling to the floor, reaching around the defender and flippling the ball in...he looked like Stretch Armstrong)
    I saw the game but I don't recall that. I often fast forward through foul shots or dead ball situations.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Ditto, and to expand a little on that: If we're talking about moving forward long term, you want more distribution of scoring from the second unit than 1 undersized ball dominating SG that isn't even very good at that. That's all he has been on 3 teams in his 3rd year. A guy like that is only good for an end of bench, short minute guy when you're second unit is stalling and needs an injection: a bit player. This year is about development and evaluation and maybe the coaching staff can turn him around, but 3 previous coaching staffs haven't changed his game one bit.

    give us some names of who you can fill the sixth man role for 4 million. 4 million qualifying offer is 3 for 12 or a 4 for 15/16 million deal which is not a bad deal for bayless in my opinion. like weems all we need to do is drop the qualifying offer down and then wait to see if someone beats it. if they do we move on but if they don't we have our sixth man. just because bayless doesn't fit the point guard position doesn't mean that he doesn't have a place on the team. we have the pieces and if you are only filling out a team by a step by step process instead of plugging any and every hole when that piece comes you could be building forever.

    bayless is a good player who seems to have been tunnel visioned or pigeon holed into only being a point guard because that is what we need/want him to be. but if he isn't a point guard we still have a good player who is something else. finding what he is instead of dropping him and starting over is the better approach.


    ***sorry i thought i could quote you and jimmy at the same time. reply was for both.

  7. #27
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    give us some names of who you can fill the sixth man role for 4 million. 4 million qualifying offer is 3 for 12 or a 4 for 15/16 million deal which is not a bad deal for bayless in my opinion. like weems all we need to do is drop the qualifying offer down and then wait to see if someone beats it. if they do we move on but if they don't we have our sixth man. just because bayless doesn't fit the point guard position doesn't mean that he doesn't have a place on the team. we have the pieces and if you are only filling out a team by a step by step process instead of plugging any and every hole when that piece comes you could be building forever.

    bayless is a good player who seems to have been tunnel visioned or pigeon holed into only being a point guard because that is what we need/want him to be. but if he isn't a point guard we still have a good player who is something else. finding what he is instead of dropping him and starting over is the better approach.


    ***sorry i thought i could quote you and jimmy at the same time. reply was for both.
    You can, click the multi-quote button (to the right of the reply with quote button) on the comments you wish to reply to.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    give us some names of who you can fill the sixth man role for 4 million. 4 million qualifying offer is 3 for 12 or a 4 for 15/16 million deal which is not a bad deal for bayless in my opinion.
    How about I give you some names of guys making a lot less than $4M and would be better options? This isn't to say we should or could get one of these guys, just that there are better options for 6th, 7th man than Jerryd Bayless, and you don't have to pay through the nose for those kinds of players. CJ Watson, Keyon Dooling, Michael Pietrus, Rudy Fernandez, Nate Robinson, Dorell Wright, Goran Dragic, Courtney Lee, George Hill, James Jones, Deshawn Stevenson, Landry Fields -- and even TJ Ford...

    You don't reward a guy just for surviving his first few years in the league with a $4M deal. If you exist in the kind of "tweener" basketball netherworld that Bayless does, you need to be really, really good at one thing, which Bayless isn't. Not to mention, if you're only really, really good at one thing, you're probably not 6th-man material on a competing playoff team anyway.

    Look, he still has the rest of the year to prove that the first few years were learning-curve years and that he's worth keeping around, then you can talk salary. Right now, he needs to prove he has a future here at all, let alone as a $4M a year 6th man. I want him to succeed, because I want the Raptors to succeed, but I don't see it for him at the moment.
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  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    i don't think its a reward to qualify him. just protecting assets. i am also hoping he does great this year and really grows. but i think he is a very good penetrator, and a very good scorer. not to diminish your list but there are only two players from it i would want on the raptors right now. george hill and landry fields. hill will be making much more than 4 million once his rookie deal is up.

    if you don't qualify bayless you risk losing him for nothing. if you trade him and the trade isn't an immediate upgrade you put the franchise back slightly. in a perfect and completely illegal world colangelo and bayless agree to let him walk and sign for less but i think its against cba (ass talking there, just sounds illegal). if he were allowed to go see whats out there for himself and give us first chance to match best offer that would great.

  10. #30
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    ...if you trade him and the trade isn't an immediate upgrade you put the franchise back slightly.
    Who could any even slightly cognizant GM trade Bayless for that wouldn't be an immediate upgrade? (Please prove me wrong when you come back Bayless)

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    if you don't qualify bayless you risk losing him for nothing.
    So far in his Raptor tenure, Bayless hasn't done enough (IMO) to worry about "losing" him. The cap space would be more valuable to me than Bayless on the roster.

    There's room for him to prove me wrong during the final 50 games of the season, but I don't think it's worth signing a guy who doesn't necessarily fit your team's direction, in the hopes of someday getting something back for him. I would much rather not re-sign him, vesus extending the qualifying offer, have no other team match, and be stuck with an untradeable player who doesn't contribute to winning basketball.
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  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Rookie Thesachman's Avatar
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    Default Time for Jerryd Bayless to Start... At point guard

    "In the few career starts Bayless has had, hes posted formidable numbers of 15.8 points, 4.8 assists, and and 2.7 rebounds with a mere 2.1 turnovers per game.

    Its evident that Bayless can put the ball in the basket, and Dwane Casey himself is aware of that. However, whats held Bayless out of the starting line-up is because of his playmaking skills, or lack of.Hes out of control at times, and fails to create offense for others. This is why Bayless has been a journeyman throughout his career, and has been considered a combo guard.

    So whats different this time around? Bayless has shown things hes never shown before. His lane penetration has always been fantastic, but his court vision is the huge difference here. Hes not just looking to score for himself, when he draws the defense hes looking for the open man. This is something a Raptors point guard has failed to do since the days of TJ Ford."

    Thoughts?

    http://www.rantsports.com/courtcrusa...t-point-guard/

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    i'm with you man. Bayless has that skill to pull defenders towards him like a magnet. When he drives defenses close in and thats when he hits an open man for a jumper. It really opens things up for Kleiza, DeMar and other players on our team who can hit the 3 or the mid range. Like sachaman said he draws the defense like how TJ ford used to do and young PG's do these days. Alot of people think bayless is a Combo because he can score which is unfair, have you guys forgotten about Russel Westbrook, D Rose, Deron Williams, Jrue Holiday, Chauncy Billups, Jeremy lin(yea i said it). I say give him a chance at PG atleast then we won't have to go with the smaller lineups.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    The only way I would want JB to start is if Calderon is injured or traded and the goal becomes having a worse record than Washington and Charlotte.

  15. #35
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Mentioned it in a few threads now. $4M. That's roughly what it will take to retain his UFA rights. Maybe the discussion should be centered around whether or not we see him coming back next season? I could see him included in a trade deadline package.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    i'm with you man. Bayless has that skill to pull defenders towards him like a magnet. When he drives defenses close in and thats when he hits an open man for a jumper. It really opens things up for Kleiza, DeMar and other players on our team who can hit the 3 or the mid range. Like sachaman said he draws the defense like how TJ ford used to do and young PG's do these days. Alot of people think bayless is a Combo because he can score which is unfair, have you guys forgotten about Russel Westbrook, D Rose, Deron Williams, Jrue Holiday, Chauncy Billups, Jeremy lin(yea i said it). I say give him a chance at PG atleast then we won't have to go with the smaller lineups.
    Explain the 3 assists last night then? Or the questionable shot choices? I won't even get into the sh*t D that both he and Demar played on Wall and Young. During OT, Bayless did exactly what people have mistakenly accused Calderon of doing: he pounded the ball until there was no time to do anything other than jack an ill-advised 3 or drive out of control into the lane and fling a pass at someone else so they could force up something at the end of the shot clock.

    Fans love scoring, I get it. And Bayless can score; that's never been questioned. But that's not winning basketball, and it's not any sort of endorsement of Bayless as a PG.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Thesachman wrote: View Post
    "In the few career starts Bayless has had, he’s posted formidable numbers of 15.8 points, 4.8 assists...with a mere 2.1 turnovers per game.

    ...He’s not just looking to score for himself, when he draws the defense he’s looking for the open man. This is something a Raptors point guard has failed to do since the days of TJ Ford."
    So Bayless gets worse than 5 assists for every 2 turnovers.

    And if we completely ignore the Amir/Calderon pick and roll success story and the fact that Calderon's passes from under the basket almost always find an open man with time to actually, you know, shoot the ball instead of throwing up a desperation hail Mary with .3 seconds left on the shot clock, then Bayless gets credit for being the first PG since TJ Ford for driving and kicking?

    Are you kidding me. "...his court vision is the huge difference here. He’s not just looking to score for himself, when he draws the defense he’s looking for the open man." I saw Bayless draw and kick 3 times last night, and twice it was because he ran into 3 opposing players and realized there was no way he could shoot so he simply flung the ball at a black shirt, without realizing who it was or what they could do with it.

    Whoever you are quoting, they are on drugs.

  18. #38
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Mentioned it in a few threads now. $4M. That's roughly what it will take to retain his UFA rights. Maybe the discussion should be centered around whether or not we see him coming back next season? I could see him included in a trade deadline package.
    I think one of Barbosa and Bayless will be back next year, but not both. I prefer Barbosa if the salaries are equal (not that it will happen).

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Explain the 3 assists last night then? Or the questionable shot choices? I won't even get into the sh*t D that both he and Demar played on Wall and Young. During OT, Bayless did exactly what people have mistakenly accused Calderon of doing: he pounded the ball until there was no time to do anything other than jack an ill-advised 3 or drive out of control into the lane and fling a pass at someone else so they could force up something at the end of the shot clock.

    Fans love scoring, I get it. And Bayless can score; that's never been questioned. But that's not winning basketball, and it's not any sort of endorsement of Bayless as a PG.
    So it's fine when player like Westbrook(who lead the league is TOs last year) thinks score first but when Bayless does it's a huge problem? The only reason he couldnt stop wall in OT was cause he was already too hot feeding on Calderon all game. Honestly I like Calderon but like every team knows what his going to do. Not look at the rim and just pass the ball and take the open 3 if he gets it. Puts no pressure on the teams opposing starting pg. When the last a starting PG has been in foul trouble against us?

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    So it's fine when player like Westbrook(who lead the league is TOs last year) thinks score first but when Bayless does it's a huge problem? The only reason he couldnt stop wall in OT was cause he was already too hot feeding on Calderon all game. Honestly I like Calderon but like every team knows what his going to do. Not look at the rim and just pass the ball and take the open 3 if he gets it. Puts no pressure on the teams opposing starting pg. When the last a starting PG has been in foul trouble against us?
    Did you just compare Westbrook to Bayless?
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