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Thread: Our Roster Next Year ... Keep, Trade or Amnesty

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who thinks it's HIGHLY unlikely that Davis or Barbosa are worth a top 20 pick? Barbosa is a rental player (expiring contract), and Davis just isn't that good.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    barbosa shouldn't bring in anything better than late first round i would think, but i disagree with the davis isn't that good statement. i think so far in his career he has been just as advertised. a defensive rebounder with a developing offensive game. i would be surprised if he didn't bring back the top 13 he was slotted in himself. the only reason for a lesser return would be other gms really really like this draft year i think.

  3. #23
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    KEEP
    - Bargnani
    - Calderon
    - Amir/Davis
    - Kleiza
    - DeRozan
    - J.Johnson
    - Forbes (could include in trade, for salary matching)
    - Valanciunas

    TRADE AT DEADLINE
    - Barbosa
    - Bayless (no way I qualify him for $4.16M)

    TRADE AT DEADLINE OR AFTER SEASON (BEFORE DRAFT)
    - Amir/Davis

    TRADE OR LET LEAVE AFTER SEASON
    - Magloire
    - Carter
    - Butler
    - Gray
    - Alabi

    TARGETS FOR DRAFT/TRADE/FA
    #1 - starting SF (Barnes or MKG)
    #2 - backup pass-first PG of the future for Calderon to mentor
    #3 - backup SG who can consistently make 3pt shots (likely a veteran player)
    #4 - veteran 3rd C (could be Alabi, if he shows enough improvement to warrant $900k qualifying offer)
    #5 - veteran 3rd PG

    LINEUP (13 MAN ROSTER)
    C: Valanciunas, Amir/Davis, cheap veteran C
    PF: Bargnani, Amir/Davis, Kleiza
    SF: Barnes/MKG, J.Johnson, Kleiza
    SG: DeRozan, veteran 3pt shooter, Forbes
    PG: Calderon, young pass-first PG, cheap veteran PG

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    barbosa shouldn't bring in anything better than late first round i would think, but i disagree with the davis isn't that good statement. i think so far in his career he has been just as advertised. a defensive rebounder with a developing offensive game. i would be surprised if he didn't bring back the top 13 he was slotted in himself. the only reason for a lesser return would be other gms really really like this draft year i think.
    That's exactly my point. 2012 draft picks will come at a much steeper price than previous years, simply because it's being labelled as "one of the deepest drafts in history" (thanks to the lockout). I personally don't think an unproven big man, who's having trouble getting minutes on a lottery-bound team, is any more desirable to GMs than any of the options slated to go 15-20 in the first round.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote YoungGuns wrote: View Post
    In my opinion:

    Keep:
    Andrea Bargnani (scorer + PF1)
    Amir Johnson (Heart and Soul + PF2 or C2)
    James Johnson (Energy player + SF2)

    Trade:
    DeMar DeRozan (Trade for a top 5 pick in this draft or combo with another for Star)
    Ed Davis (Trade for top 15 pick in the draft)
    Leandro Barbosa (Trade for top 20 pick in this draft)
    Jose Calderon (Trade for top 20 pick in this draft)
    Jerryd Bayless (Trade for a second rounf draft pick)

    Amnesty Clause:
    Linas Kleiza (No trade value)

    I don't mind DeRozan really but I get the feeling he will leave asap ... same with Davis.

    I'd love if we could combo some of our players to get Josh Smith. I think he is the exact player we need here.
    I don't know if anyone on our roster is worth a straight up trade for a top 5 pick (except maybe AB whom we want to keep). Especially the way Demar has struggled so far. I would think that maybe you could trade our top 10 pick + Demar to a team like Detroit for their top 5 pick. Then you flip that top 5 pick along with Ed and Calderon for Rajon Rondo and Boston's 17th pick. They get a young big to replace their aging bigs, Jose's soon to be expiring contract and a serviceable year or two as well, as a top 5 pick, and we get one of the best young PG's in the league.

    PG Rondo, Bayless
    SG Doron Lamb or Tony Wroten Jr., maybe sign Weems when he returns?
    SF Matt Barnes (via free agency), J. Johnson
    PF Bargnani, A. Johnson
    C JV, take your pick of a bunch of serviceable bigs that are free agents (and won't command top $$)...B. Lopez, Kaman, McGee

    If there is a chance of that being possible I would say we'd have a good chance at being a top 5 tea, in the East.

  6. #26
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    Quote YoungGuns wrote: View Post
    In my opinion:

    Keep:
    Andrea Bargnani (scorer + PF1)
    Amir Johnson (Heart and Soul + PF2 or C2)
    James Johnson (Energy player + SF2)

    Trade:
    DeMar DeRozan (Trade for a top 5 pick in this draft or combo with another for Star)
    Ed Davis (Trade for top 15 pick in the draft)
    Leandro Barbosa (Trade for top 20 pick in this draft)
    Jose Calderon (Trade for top 20 pick in this draft)
    Jerryd Bayless (Trade for a second rounf draft pick)

    Amnesty Clause:
    Linas Kleiza (No trade value)

    I don't mind DeRozan really but I get the feeling he will leave asap ... same with Davis.

    I'd love if we could combo some of our players to get Josh Smith. I think he is the exact player we need here.
    Aside from it being an insane idea to have virtually an entire team of unproven rookies:

    1. You can't trade players for just draft picks. You have to take back matching combination of salary/trade exception. It's a lot more complicated than unloading players for picks.
    2. Barbosa is expiring contract, and likely has more value to team as just that: $ flexibility. Is there anybody who is going to take him on as a contender piece rental and have anything to give back to match that is also expiring? Always possible, but don't see much chance.
    3. Bayless: another expiring and the way he's playing (hasn't progressed one iota in 3rd year), what do we have to take back, besides a late pick?
    4. Jose: unless he gets injured, he's more valuable to this team over next few years than anything we'd get back. I say few years, assuming he resigns at much less, which I wouldn't be surprised that he would do, and help groom a young PG. He's a great soldier dedicated to organization and huge role model for young guys.

    Nobody is untouchable, and good trades may well become available, but BC says he's going to be patient for the right one(s). I wouldn't be surprised if we go into next year with:
    AB, Jose, Amir, JV, DD, ED, JJ, Kleiza, Forbes, High draft pick, and with lots of $$ to spend:
    Very good FA or two, plus vet fillers. There has to be a young PG in there somewhere, because Bayless doesn't cut it.
    Note: Raps still hold restricted FA rights of Weems. He could also be addition or flipped, just like Delfino coming back from Europe, in the kind of trade that landed us Amir. Could Weems and ED (or Amir, but rather keep him right now) get us something of value? maybe.

    With a bit of a logjam of bigs coming up I wouldn't be surprised if either Amir or ED get moved, and Gray gets signed as deep backup C. ED would return very little of value unless he picks up his game a huge amount. Amir might get us something of value at PG/SG/SF though.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote YoungGuns wrote: View Post
    In my opinion:

    Keep:
    Andrea Bargnani (scorer + PF1)
    Amir Johnson (Heart and Soul + PF2 or C2)
    James Johnson (Energy player + SF2)

    Trade:
    DeMar DeRozan (Trade for a top 5 pick in this draft or combo with another for Star)
    Ed Davis (Trade for top 15 pick in the draft)
    Leandro Barbosa (Trade for top 20 pick in this draft)
    Jose Calderon (Trade for top 20 pick in this draft)
    Jerryd Bayless (Trade for a second rounf draft pick)

    Amnesty Clause:
    Linas Kleiza (No trade value)

    I don't mind DeRozan really but I get the feeling he will leave asap ... same with Davis.

    I'd love if we could combo some of our players to get Josh Smith. I think he is the exact player we need here.
    I don't think the Raptors would be able to get back the type of draft picks you have listed in your scenarios. Ed Davis has unfortunately regressed in pretty much every category so far this season and I'd guess that his value is down all over the league. They are not getting a top 15 pick for him in such a loaded draft. For what they'd actually be able to get back for him the Raps are better off keeping the guy and hoping that his development gets back on track, which I still think has a good shot of happening.

    I have a hard time seeing DeRozan fetching a top five either. Not with the potential that looks like it will be there in those picks at the draft. DD is still getting better but I think it's safe to say that his ceiling is less than "superstar" now. Most teams in those spots would rather hold on to the pick and try to find a franchise changing guy, and there will be a few available who have that type of buzz based on their potential.

    Barbosa is the player most likely to be traded as he's in the last year of his deal and a playoff team might be interested in renting him for their stretch run (the man can still score), but I wouldn't be surprised if BC holds onto him and keeps the cap relief for himself. Either way I don't see many teams willing to give up a top 20 pick to get their hands on him.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    I would love to see the Raps get another top 10 pick in this draft but I don't see how that happens without moving Bargnani as part of that package. The Raps just don't have much in the way of assets to move. That's the problem when you're as talent deficient as the Raps, trading just isn't an option.

    I guess a lot of it depends on whether you view Derozan and Davis as rotation guys going forward. If you do, then trading them for potential rotation guys makes little sense at this point. If you think they are busts, then maybe trying to deal them on their rookie deals is for the best. Not sure how I feel about either guy at this stage but I don't get the sense management is down on either guy.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks it's HIGHLY unlikely that Davis or Barbosa are worth a top 20 pick? Barbosa is a rental player (expiring contract), and Davis just isn't that good.
    That's kinda what I meant and not just with those two. It's all in Imaginationland territory.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    At this point I would be willing to trade anyone on the roster for the right package. No one is good enough to be labelled untouchable or anywhere near it. With that being said I also don't like the idea of a complete roster overhaul and continuing to try and get younger. We have enough young prospects/projects in Demar, JV, Ed, Bayless, JJ and a lottery pick next year. That's half a dozen players who need minutes and that's not counting Dre and Amir who are still young players with room for continued development. I think you draft the best player available regardless of position and and asses free agency and trades accordingly. Our most glaring need is at the SF position with a number of good players in the draft who could fill the void in Barnes and MKG. I'd love to see the Raptors get a Anthony Davis as him and JV could be a scary front court for the next decade and the thought of 2 of Dre/Ed/Amir you would assume would return a nice player. I'm just happy to see the Raptors collecting assets and being patient. No need to jump the gun at this point. If they're going to move anyone Barbosa would be my pick. I just don't want Jose dumped as he is great for the locker room and development of our players.

  11. #31
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    Why do you think other teams will be so willing to give up draft picks in a deep draft for the players we want to jettison? DeMar DeRozan isn't better than any of the players projected to go in the Top 5 (he isn't even better than anyone in the Top 10), Ed Davis wouldn't fetch you a lottery pick with the way he's been playing, Barbosa's contract expires this summer and which team is going to take on Calderon's $10M salary? Expiring or not.

    We're not even a quarter way through the season yet. How about we watch em play out the year then see what we've got.

    I'll never understand why you guys think that NBA teams are run like your Fantasy Basketball teams on Yahoo!

  12. #32
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    derozan + bargnani + cap space for: a top 10 pick, use it to grab lamb, leaving us with a roster of:

    C:Valanciunas,off season signing
    PF:Ed Davis, Amir
    SF:Quincy Miller,J. Johnson and Kleiza (3rd string depends on who is better next year, kleiza or johnson)
    SG:Lamb,Sonny Weemsas
    PG:Calderon.....for now,we can probably start attracting bigger names once we start winning.

    clear centre piece in lamb, depth is not there, but core is well established.


    EXTREMELY young team, but in my opinion: filled with talented, high IQ players.

    edit:scratch kleiza off the list,amnesty his ass, last year I seem to remember players forming "cliques", and kleiza being cool with the americans, and jose and bargnani doing their own thing. this year with casey at the helm it is a non issue.
    Last edited by akashsingh; Tue Jan 17th, 2012 at 12:11 PM.

  13. #33
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    Who the heck is giving up all of these top 15 picks for our guys? How many rookies do we want on one team? The OP is silly. In reality, you can't trade a ten million dollar contract like Jose and get back just a top 15 pick. You have to take into account salaries.

    It is an interesting question, though, even if the OP didn't answer it very well. Here are my thoughts:

    Core (keep, don't trade unless something huge and very unlikely comes along):
    Andrea
    Jonas Valanciunas

    Foundations (I think they will be better pieces for the Raptors than anything we could get for them):
    Demar DeRozan -- he's had a few tough games, but I think over time he will be a solid 2.
    Jose Calderon -- 30 is not all that old. He is potentially a valuable trade piece, but his absence would leave a hole, and his contract lowers what we could expect to get for him. I think he'll be useful for 2 more years, and then his contract expires. Potential amnesty candidate.
    Ed Davis: I think he has a higher ceiling than Amir, once he learns how to play defence better and develops his range and post moves. But see below.
    James Johnson: I think we can't get much for him and he fits our roster pretty well.
    Linas Kleiza: He is potential amnesty candidate if we need the money for a big move. Otherwise there's no reason to move him: he has low value and plays a position of need. I maybe see him getting shipped out if we land a free agent SF, however.

    Dump:
    Amir Johnson: Not because I don't like him: I think he's great. But I do think that it is a bit silly to have him and ed Davis in the same rotation, along with Andrea and Jonas. I think we should trade one of them: really, either one is fine. Not right away, but in the offseason. What I want to see is us to get a really solid SF.between a fair amount of free agent money, and assets like Amir, I think we should be able to make something happen. Alternatively, we could use a backup true centre for Valanciunas, or a legit younger point guard. We need any of those things more than Amir, I think.
    Barbosa: Getting older, can help a playoff team, expiring contract. I wouldn't be surprised, however, to see him just stay here and have is contract expire. If he gets moved, it will be for a worse player also on an expiring contract, plus a pick, I would expect.
    Bayless: I'm sorry, I just don't think he's an NBA guard. Raptors offense is brutal when he's running things. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong when he comes back. He has a cheap expiring contract, so he could be moved pretty easily, possible for a late first round pick.
    Rasual Butler, Solomon Alabi, Anthony Carter, Jamaal Magloire, Aaron gray: See ya!

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Looking into 2012/2013 there are only a few names I would essentially want to keep: JV, first round pick (hopefully Davis), Demar and Amir.

    But to be honest every current player on our team (except JV/Pick) is expendable for the right price. f we can become a better team by trading any of the other guys on our team then I'm all for it. The hardest to trade in my opinion would be Amir since he's such a work horse, has a reasonable salary, and is still very young.

    I don't believe we should be using the amnesty on anyone including Kleiza - who's still young and can be a solid rotational piece off the bench to provide some scoring.

  15. #35
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    Current thinking Keep:

    JV
    Bargnani - (assuming this effort we are seeing stays) would NOT have seen me say this in previous years...was not even on the fence before.
    Amir - (energy, huge motor, intangibles, value contract)
    Jose - (unless we can secure a seriously solid PG)
    JJ - not here for his offence, still some learning to do, still some errors on D, but I like him off the bench. Not a starter, not gonna be one.

    On the Fence:
    Demar: I like Demar, current issues aside. On the fence for me as his lack of 'fire' or energy is exactly what I hated about Bargnani's game previously. On the flip side he could secure some value in return. I wouldn't call anybody to shop him, but I would listen to what is offered for him.
    ED - I like the kid, and think he will develop into a solid big man, not stellar, but could probably get some value in return
    Kleiza - could potentially be a role player moving forward, depends upon what happens in the draft/free agency.

    Trade:
    Barbosa - unless BC is thinking to try to keep LB here for cheaper longer term, he is gone to Brazil for good $ or a playoff team for a chance, better to turn him into SOMETHING like a pick or potential if a team is trying to make a push and can be swayed.
    Bayless - to China for some noodles.


    Doesn't matter/won't affect the roster or bottom line cap:
    Alabi - cheap to keep, may develop or not, depends on the true FA, draft and trade aquisitions in the coming months/off-season.
    Forbes - cheap. meh.
    Gray - a 1yr rental, but could be a cheap asset in the future.
    Carter, Magloire, Butler are all 1yr rentals so no time wasted on their future fate.

    EDIT: sorry would only use amnesty on any player if we need the $ to sign a star FA.
    Last edited by Maleko; Tue Jan 17th, 2012 at 08:53 PM.

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