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Thread: Is the Future not as Bright? (or is the future brighter? see post 130)

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Default Is the Future not as Bright? (or is the future brighter? see post 130)

    I know it's early (14 games in), but I'm somewhat disappointed in what I've seen collectively from DeRozan, Davis, J.Johnson and Bayless. Going into the season, I was optimistic that at least 2 of these guys would step forward and cement themselves as legitimate pieces as this team continues the "building" plan, leaving us with just a few holes to fill in the summer of 2012.

    But if this rate continues, our future isn't as bright as I once thought it was, regardless of Valanciunas, the high draft pick and plenty of cap space.

    Agree/disagree?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    You've got Bargs, Jose, and Amir as solid pieces right now. Next year you get two highly touted rookies and at least one significant free agent that can start. One of those rookies could start. Then you have a not bad bench of "DeRozan, Davis, J.Johnson and Bayless" and Kleiza. What's not to like.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I know it's early (14 games in), but I'm somewhat disappointed in what I've seen collectively from DeRozan, Davis, J.Johnson and Bayless. Going into the season, I was optimistic that at least 2 of these guys would step forward and cement themselves as legitimate pieces as this team continues the "building" plan, leaving us with just a few holes to fill in the summer of 2012.

    But if this rate continues, our future isn't as bright as I once thought it was, regardless of Valanciunas, the high draft pick and plenty of cap space.

    Agree/disagree?
    Your expectations were too high. Rebuilds take time. Player development takes time. The season was shortened. There was hardly no camp. There is a new head coach. They're trying some new things. Everything is rushed but new.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    You're disappointed in Davis? Really?

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    You're disappointed in Davis? Really?
    Yes. If anything both him & Demar have just been a huge disappointment thus far this season.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    The biggest area of disappointment has been with Demar and ED. After the first few games almost everyone was excited about Demar's new found 3 ball and the future was bright, that all came crashing back to earth and now we are in panic mode. What happens when he goes on tear in a week for 4 or 5 games? As for Ed, that is a tough one. Offensively I don't think he will ever be a a legit threat, but he can become effective. The rebounding and shot blocking has been inconsistent, that can be correlated to his also inconsistent minutes. The season is early, give it time before we all jump off the burning building, there is lots of time to turn it around for some payers that we want more out of.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Just wait until his body catches up with his IQ. Dude is going to be a monster.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    If you're seriously disappointed in Ed maybe you should pick another team for a couple years cause if you can't handle some growing pains this year might kill you.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    You're disappointed in Davis? Really?
    Yeah, Davis has been a huge disappointment so far this year (along with DeRozan). There's still plenty of time for him to turn it around, but I can't say he's showed us anything in 14 games that are worthy of goosebumps.

    Perhaps my impatience comes from the fact that both these guys are playing worse than last year. Stagnation is much more tolerable than regression.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I don't know what to say

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    My prediction is everyone is back on the DeRozan bandwagon by the end of the season. He changed his offensive game in the off-season, he has a new coach and didn't get much of a camp. I sense there is some confusion on how he puts it all together. Give him time.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Yeah, Davis has been a huge disappointment so far this year (along with DeRozan). There's still plenty of time for him to turn it around, but I can't say he's showed us anything in 14 games that are worthy of goosebumps.

    Perhaps my impatience comes from the fact that both these guys are playing worse than last year. Stagnation is much more tolerable than regression.
    What type of player were you expecting Ed to be? I never thought the guy was going to be a future allstar, I think he can be a Udonis Haslem with better length and shot blocking. I never thought the guy would be much more than a 10-13 ppg game, but he can get you 10 boards a night with 1.5-2 block per. While he is not there yet, he is not far off either.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Im actually just disappointed with Demar, coz of all the BS he was saying how hard he worked in the offseason, etc etc. And its not showing.
    I can understand if the team chemistry is off coz of a shortened season, but he should be doing more individually. Its not like he doesnt get touches, he just doesnt seem like he knows what to do out on the floor. But as ive said before, there might be something else going on behind the scenes. Maybe Casey is telling him to work more on his jumpshot and 3pt shooting rather than slashing, or maybe he has a minor injury, who knows. I kinda noticed that Casey seems to pull him out during the last few minutes of the game, which i dont agree with, coz Demar should be molded as the team's finisher. Maybe Demar doesnt like that either, and prefers to sulk during the 1st 3 quarters instead. Im just speculating here.

    I dont think its early in the season anymore, 14 games is already a lot, specially in a shortened season. I think this is as good as it gets for this season, for the raps, and i dont mind. as long as jose, amir, bargnani, ed, kleiza and jj play hard then thats fine. moving forward, i would like to see amir, bargnani, ed, demar and jj as part of the core, not necessarily starters, but at least part of the main rotation.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Im actually just disappointed with Demar, coz of all the BS he was saying how hard he worked in the offseason, etc etc. And its not showing.
    I can understand if the team chemistry is off coz of a shortened season, but he should be doing more individually. Its not like he doesnt get touches, he just doesnt seem like he knows what to do out on the floor. But as ive said before, there might be something else going on behind the scenes. Maybe Casey is telling him to work more on his jumpshot and 3pt shooting rather than slashing, or maybe he has a minor injury, who knows. I kinda noticed that Casey seems to pull him out during the last few minutes of the game, which i dont agree with, coz Demar should be molded as the team's finisher. Maybe Demar doesnt like that either, and prefers to sulk during the 1st 3 quarters instead. Im just speculating here.

    I dont think its early in the season anymore, 14 games is already a lot, specially in a shortened season. I think this is as good as it gets for this season, for the raps, and i dont mind. as long as jose, amir, bargnani, ed, kleiza and jj play hard then thats fine. moving forward, i would like to see amir, bargnani, ed, demar and jj as part of the core, not necessarily starters, but at least part of the main rotation.
    Check his game log from last year. He had rough stretches then as well, especially at the start of the season through November.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo.../demar-derozan


    I am with Apollo, he will bounce back.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Check his game log from last year. He had rough stretches then as well, especially at the start of the season through November.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo.../demar-derozan


    I am with Apollo, he will bounce back.
    I have no doubts that he will.

    I think this year is entirely different from last, i really thought he was on a mission this year to establish himself as an All-star, and that he was going to go nuts as soon as the season started. Maybe i just expected way too much from him.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Im actually just disappointed with Demar, coz of all the BS he was saying how hard he worked in the offseason, etc etc. And its not showing.
    I can understand if the team chemistry is off coz of a shortened season, but he should be doing more individually. Its not like he doesnt get touches, he just doesnt seem like he knows what to do out on the floor. But as ive said before, there might be something else going on behind the scenes. Maybe Casey is telling him to work more on his jumpshot and 3pt shooting rather than slashing, or maybe he has a minor injury, who knows. I kinda noticed that Casey seems to pull him out during the last few minutes of the game, which i dont agree with, coz Demar should be molded as the team's finisher. Maybe Demar doesnt like that either, and prefers to sulk during the 1st 3 quarters instead. Im just speculating here.

    I dont think its early in the season anymore, 14 games is already a lot, specially in a shortened season. I think this is as good as it gets for this season, for the raps, and i dont mind. as long as jose, amir, bargnani, ed, kleiza and jj play hard then thats fine. moving forward, i would like to see amir, bargnani, ed, demar and jj as part of the core, not necessarily starters, but at least part of the main rotation.
    I think you may have hit the nail on it's head when you said that you noticed Casey pulls him out during the last few minutes of the game, but I DON'T think the Raptors should be molding him as the teams finisher.

    He's probably looking around at his fellow draft mates like Tyreke and Jennings and marveling at their success. However, unlike them he doesn't have the talent. I'm not saying that he isn't a good player and can't get better, but he's been in the league long enough to know if he's a star or not, and Demar is not a star. He's been in countless isolation situations where he takes two dribbles and the third is off his foot. I think his biggest problem right now if that he still thinks he's on the same level as his buddies and can't grasp the fact that he might be a role player.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    i'm not disappointed AT ALL..

    casey completely changed the team culture... and two of the players who have bought in the most are probably the two most unlikely to (bargs and jose)

    changes dont happen overnight... with barely any preseason and training camp, and this early into a shortened season with a very busy schedule, and BARGS has bought into a DEFENSIVE philosophy change?

    that's pretty amazing...

    i'm pleasantly surprised he's caught on so fast... but the fact that young kids, who've been stuck in their ways never playing for more than 2 or 3 coaches in their lives... never having been asked to change their game.. are having a tougher time adjusting to a drastic change... it's not really a surprise

    give them time... if they're still this shite 2/3 of the way through the season, then bury them...

    JJ has time to practice his jumper..
    Ed and Demar have time to grow some balls..
    Bayless......... to be honest, i damn near forgot he was even on the team

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I think you may have hit the nail on it's head when you said that you noticed Casey pulls him out during the last few minutes of the game, but I DON'T think the Raptors should be molding him as the teams finisher.

    He's probably looking around at his fellow draft mates like Tyreke and Jennings and marveling at their success. However, unlike them he doesn't have the talent. I'm not saying that he isn't a good player and can't get better, but he's been in the league long enough to know if he's a star or not, and Demar is not a star. He's been in countless isolation situations where he takes two dribbles and the third is off his foot. I think his biggest problem right now if that he still thinks he's on the same level as his buddies and can't grasp the fact that he might be a role player.
    I think the Raptors can probably acquire more credible finishers than Demar, but right now, IMO, he should be the finisher. He should be in late game situations and i think he's actually had success when he does play late in the 4th.

    I think the reason why those two you mentioned have more success than him is because those two are PGs, and most of the time, they have control of the ball. And most of the time, they create plays, unlike Demar who has to wait for the ball from Calderon, who actually opts to give it to Bargnani rather than Demar. But you are right, Demar needs to take care of the ball and need to think 2-3 steps ahead. Im noticing a lot with him too is he dribbles trying to find a spot where he can take the jumpshot, or tries to find an opening in the defense where he can slash, but when he cant find one, he picks up the ball and then he gets swarmed. I think one of the basic teachings in basketball is never pickup your dribble unless youve decided to shoot or pass. i really dont know what going on with him right now.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    only disappointment to me is Demar. i'm sure his production scoring-wise will go up eventually but his defense and fire have been sorely lacking.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I know it's early (14 games in), but I'm somewhat disappointed in what I've seen collectively from DeRozan, Davis, J.Johnson and Bayless. Going into the season, I was optimistic that at least 2 of these guys would step forward and cement themselves as legitimate pieces as this team continues the "building" plan, leaving us with just a few holes to fill in the summer of 2012.

    But if this rate continues, our future isn't as bright as I once thought it was, regardless of Valanciunas, the high draft pick and plenty of cap space.

    Agree/disagree?
    I'm a bit more optomistic that we'll be better sooner than later. However, looking at the template other bottom feeders before us have followed to success I think we need to find that star player that can propel a team to the upper level. Even this franchise peaked when we made the draft day trade for VC, and whether you like him or not he was arguably a top 5 or 6player in his prime. LBJ in Clevland, D. Rose in Chicago, Rubio now in Minnesota, Durant etc...

    Bottom line we need to go "all in" in the draft. Trade expiring contracts, trade solid veterans like Calderon and get additional draft picks and take our chances. And it may have to happen in multiple drafts as well..just look at Minnesota that were in the lottery forever until they picked up Rubio. They would still be crap if they didn't have him even though they have a great supporting cast of talent.

    There isn't a player on our roster that is a star. All the praise JV is getting like he's going to be step in and be a starter and have the impact that Blake Griffin had in his rookie year is crazy. He's going to go through a couple years atleast where he struggles to stay out of foul trouble and adjust to the NBA.

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