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Thread: Is the Future not as Bright? (or is the future brighter? see post 130)

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The only teams I am aware of would be LAL (Odom exemption), DEN (Anthony exemption), and IND (cap space).
    Found the following link:
    http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...exceptions.jsp

    Lists all the TPE's that teams have. Barbosa is owed $7.6M (according to Hoopshype). So using a TPE (and TPE alone), the only two teams that can take on Barbosa's contract (without having to trade players) are LAL and Utah.

    If Utah continues to play well (which is doubtful, but still), they may want to make a playoff push with Barbosa. Utah does not have their own 1st round pick (traded to Minny), but they have GSW's (top 7 protected). I wonder if Utah would be willing to trade that pick for Barbosa at the trade deadline? They could use the depth at both PG and SG as that's their big weakness. But that might be asking for too much. GSW's pick could be pretty good in a deep draft, and Utah may not want to trade that for a rental.

    Of course you could also trade him to teams like Indiana who have the cap space, as you suggested.

  2. #42
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I don't know what to say
    Deep breaths, it seems the season starts and everyone thinks the team should be in the finals...
    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    What type of player were you expecting Ed to be? I never thought the guy was going to be a future allstar, I think he can be a Udonis Haslem with better length and shot blocking. I never thought the guy would be much more than a 10-13 ppg game, but he can get you 10 boards a night with 1.5-2 block per. While he is not there yet, he is not far off either.
    +1

    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    only disappointment to me is Demar. i'm sure his production scoring-wise will go up eventually but his defense and fire have been sorely lacking.
    This is it, slumps come and go, but if you aren't givin' 'er in the games...

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    I think DeMar and Ed Davis are still very good players. There is a lot of pressure on DeMar to be the guy and he just needs to play his game. I think DeMar is a good 3rd scoring option on a good team. Right now teams are focusing on him and he just needs to get comfortable in the system. I do agree he has to work harder for his shot. Look how hard Ray Allen works to get his open looks. He doesn't have the same shooting ability but he has the motor. If we add a stud SF in this draft as the #1 scoring option, Bargs as the #2, and DeMar should be a more effective player. He is still raw and will become a very good player.

    As for Ed, I don't want to put a ceiling on him, but I think he could become a Horace Grant or Dale Davis type player. Both players were great in their roles. I would love to see him emulate their games.

    J.J. is a good energy guy off the bench, and that's a bout it. I like his personality and his hustle. He just needs to work on his shooting and his problem turning over the ball.

    Bayless should be let go during the off season. I don't see value in him as a point guard and he is a black hole when the ball hits his hands.


    With our cap flexibility, the draft and the further development of our players I think we will make the play offs next year. After all it is a week conference.

  4. #44
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    Didn't have time to read this entire thread so forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else has already said, but I'm not at all disappointed in DeRozan and Davis. Anyone who thought that DeRozan was somehow going to be develop into a star this year was completely deluding themselves. For that to happen, you would have had to be expecting him to improve his shooting, his ball handling and driving ability, his passing, his finishing and his defensive awareness all in one offseason. Wasn't ever gonna happen. He has WAY too many holes in his game, especially given how much work his shot has needed. Frankly to me the disappointment is that the Raptors have asked him to become a jump shooting guard instead of having him work on his driving/slashing game first and his jumper second, because right now DeRozan is almost completely capable of generating his own shot unless it's a long 2.

    Same thing goes for Ed Davis. These guys aren't high lottery picks with polished games or overwhelming talent, they're athletic players that need significant development time. DeMar is going to need at least another 2 seasons before he becomes a consistent 20 ppg threat, and Davis may need just as long to develop any kind of post game. The good news is that Colangelo might be able to sign DeRozan to a contract that'll look like a steal down the line, much like Andrea's is now looking (and god it hurts me to say that).

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Found the following link:
    http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...exceptions.jsp

    Lists all the TPE's that teams have. Barbosa is owed $7.6M (according to Hoopshype). So using a TPE (and TPE alone), the only two teams that can take on Barbosa's contract (without having to trade players) are LAL and Utah.

    If Utah continues to play well (which is doubtful, but still), they may want to make a playoff push with Barbosa. Utah does not have their own 1st round pick (traded to Minny), but they have GSW's (top 7 protected). I wonder if Utah would be willing to trade that pick for Barbosa at the trade deadline? They could use the depth at both PG and SG as that's their big weakness. But that might be asking for too much. GSW's pick could be pretty good in a deep draft, and Utah may not want to trade that for a rental.

    Of course you could also trade him to teams like Indiana who have the cap space, as you suggested.
    Thanks for the link.

    I thought Denver still had a good portion of their $17M Carmelo exemption.

    They signed Nene and Afflalo with Bird's Rights so no hit to exemption.

    Felton was traded for Miller so no hit to exemption as almost equal salaries.

    The only use of it I was aware of was Brewer and Fernandez which would have been around $5M leaving what I thought to be around $12M.

    The traded player exception for Anthony will be worth approximately $17.15M and is greater than any other in NBA history.

    Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/211261/Nuggets_Will_Receive_Four_Traded_Player_Exceptions _One_A_League_Record_$1715M#ixzz1jkSIW5qu

    I could be wrong on this and it wouldn't be the first time, but unless I am missing another use of the TPE, I think I'm right.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Thanks for the link.

    I thought Denver still had a good portion of their $17M Carmelo exemption.

    They signed Nene and Afflalo with Bird's Rights so no hit to exemption.

    Felton was traded for Miller so no hit to exemption as almost equal salaries.

    The only use of it I was aware of was Brewer and Fernandez which would have been around $5M leaving what I thought to be around $12M.




    I could be wrong on this and it wouldn't be the first time, but unless I am missing another use of the TPE, I think I'm right.
    I wonder if there's a list of teams that are the biggest players in the free agent market....
    I guess who has the most cap space, draft picks, expiring contracts, etc etc.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm

    This link should give you an idea of who will have the most cap space next offseason. You will have to sort through every team though

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Thanks for the link.

    I thought Denver still had a good portion of their $17M Carmelo exemption.

    They signed Nene and Afflalo with Bird's Rights so no hit to exemption.

    Felton was traded for Miller so no hit to exemption as almost equal salaries.

    The only use of it I was aware of was Brewer and Fernandez which would have been around $5M leaving what I thought to be around $12M.




    I could be wrong on this and it wouldn't be the first time, but unless I am missing another use of the TPE, I think I'm right.

    You are probably correct. The only major trade Denver pulled off after the Carmelo trade was swapping Felton for Miller and that would not have used any of the TPE. I had never heard of shamsports before today so the information could be very wrong. Too bad the ESPN trade machine is down so that we could verify

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    i'm not disappointed AT ALL..

    casey completely changed the team culture... and two of the players who have bought in the most are probably the two most unlikely to (bargs and jose)

    changes dont happen overnight... with barely any preseason and training camp, and this early into a shortened season with a very busy schedule, and BARGS has bought into a DEFENSIVE philosophy change?

    that's pretty amazing...

    i'm pleasantly surprised he's caught on so fast... but the fact that young kids, who've been stuck in their ways never playing for more than 2 or 3 coaches in their lives... never having been asked to change their game.. are having a tougher time adjusting to a drastic change... it's not really a surprise

    give them time... if they're still this shite 2/3 of the way through the season, then bury them...

    JJ has time to practice his jumper..
    Ed and Demar have time to grow some balls..
    Bayless......... to be honest, i damn near forgot he was even on the team
    I agree with this assessment of the team so far.

  10. #50
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    There's not much talent on the roster. Some of these guys will be flipping burgers in 5 years time. The regulars would be benchwarmers on a really good team. This was obvious before the season started. If the organization does its job, none of them will be on the roster in 5 years.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    i am pretty sure the entire forum was "i don't care if we win or lose as long as we play defense and compete every night" before the season started. we played a few good games to start the season and bam "were close to being a playoff team, if only DD could be a complete player or if only ED was able to do exactly what we said he should be able to do".

    prior to the season people were saying ed is going to be doing 15 and 10 and now he isn't. he is labeled a failure. he never said those numbers, forum fanatics did. "he isn't the double double machine in his second year i said he would be must be garbage then."

    derozan gets the first coach who tries to teach him something besides saying "go jump and everyone will love you" and now he is isn't living up to your expectations. "hes a failure".

    right now, until i see differently, i am taking casey at his word. he said "if i see them working on it in the gym after practice they can do it in the game" so that means he HAS seen demar putting in the work.

    personally i would like DD to shoot about 3 or 4 3s a game and hit around 30% anymore than 4 i think is a better used closer to the basket unless he is hitting 40-50% of his 3s. but until he is hitting those numbers the only way to get there is by shooting and practicing. in the meantime rebound and play good perimeter D and no one should have a problem with him.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm

    This link should give you an idea of who will have the most cap space next offseason. You will have to sort through every team though
    thanks man

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    There's not much talent on the roster. Some of these guys will be flipping burgers in 5 years time. The regulars would be benchwarmers on a really good team. This was obvious before the season started. If the organization does its job, none of them will be on the roster in 5 years.
    I agree. There's no point. Fire colangelo, fire casey, sell the team and lets all just watch hockey.
    Wait, is that a magic elf? on a unicorn? hold on, i have to chase it....
    damn this is one good blend....

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic Rookie Raptorboy's Avatar
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    Default Agreed

    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    You've got Bargs, Jose, and Amir as solid pieces right now. Next year you get two highly touted rookies and at least one significant free agent that can start. One of those rookies could start. Then you have a not bad bench of "DeRozan, Davis, J.Johnson and Bayless" and Kleiza. What's not to like.
    Barg`s, Jose, and Amir are the new core for this team. Hopefully JV will be the undisputed go-to-go when he arrives (after some seasoning). DeRozan can be a solid filler and the jury is still out on JJ. He has some tools to be a solid role player as well. I`m very disappointed in Davis. Lots of hype but no production. Can`t give up on him yet...i guess...but Amir is way ahead of him IMO. I think we are in good shape. Great coach and some good core players. We are probably 3 years away but as long as we`re progressing I`m happy.

  15. #55
    Raptors Republic Rookie Raptorboy's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I think you may have hit the nail on it's head when you said that you noticed Casey pulls him out during the last few minutes of the game, but I DON'T think the Raptors should be molding him as the teams finisher.

    He's probably looking around at his fellow draft mates like Tyreke and Jennings and marveling at their success. However, unlike them he doesn't have the talent. I'm not saying that he isn't a good player and can't get better, but he's been in the league long enough to know if he's a star or not, and Demar is not a star. He's been in countless isolation situations where he takes two dribbles and the third is off his foot. I think his biggest problem right now if that he still thinks he's on the same level as his buddies and can't grasp the fact that he might be a role player.
    Unfortunately I think you`re right. The confidence and killer instinct that is needed to take over games is something that Demar should have developed before now. Not saying that he can`t get better, I`m sure he will. But he will never be the guy who consistently gets the ball with the game on the line ala Kobe or Carmelo. If he becomes a great role player 19-7-3 with good defense I think we`d be lucky.
    Last edited by Raptorboy; Wed Jan 18th, 2012 at 03:30 PM. Reason: adding extra

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorboy wrote: View Post
    Unfortunately I think you`re right. The confidence and killer instinct that is needed to take over games is something that Demar should have developed before now. Not saying that he can`t get better, I`m sure he will. But he will never be the guy who consistently gets the ball with the game on the line ala Kobe or Carmelo. If he becomes a great role player 19-7-3 with good defense I think we`d be lucky.
    If DeRozan can average 19-7-3 I would be doing cart wheels all over the ACC.

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic Rookie Raptorboy's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If DeRozan can average 19-7-3 I would be doing cart wheels all over the ACC.
    That is pretty optimistic. Maybe 17-5-2. I think that's possible. He just doesn't seem to have much of a basketball IQ. But who knows? He got lots of athleticism and he works very hard so he might get it someday? One can hope.

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I think Derozen's ceiling is 18-3-3.

    Dude is allergic to rebounding and only gets assists when he passes to a wide open Bargs. He can't create to save his life.

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorboy wrote: View Post
    That is pretty optimistic. Maybe 17-5-2. I think that's possible. He just doesn't seem to have much of a basketball IQ. But who knows? He got lots of athleticism and he works very hard so he might get it someday? One can hope.
    I was replying to your comment of:

    Raptorboy wrote:

    Unfortunately I think you`re right. The confidence and killer instinct that is needed to take over games is something that Demar should have developed before now. Not saying that he can`t get better, I`m sure he will. But he will never be the guy who consistently gets the ball with the game on the line ala Kobe or Carmelo. If he becomes a great role player 19-7-3 with good defense I think we`d be lucky.
    My comment still stands: I'd be doing cartwheels all over the ACC.

    I don't think it is likely or realistic.

  20. #60
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I think Derozen's ceiling is 18-3-3.

    Dude is allergic to rebounding and only gets assists when he passes to a wide open Bargs. He can't create to save his life.
    His problem is that there's too much Drew league playground crap to his game. In the NBA, I'm disappointed in how he gets to the ball, slashes to the basket and cutting on offense. He stands around, one and done. Doesn't he watch video? Don't they have assistants for this? Watching him bee-line to the hoop and getting stripped, falling down is by far THE MOST disappointing aspect of this player, this year. Happy with the team's qdefensive effort but DD is slowly becoming and enigma (sorry to say, last year's Bargnani). He needs time, I get that but it needs to be soon and please lose the Rucker Park bullshit.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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