Is the Future not as Bright? (or is the future brighter? see post 130)

[slaw]

Is anyone but me sick of the DeRozan hate yet..? I think people are taking it way too far in saying how shit he is.. Go back and watch video of how he played last year and it'll disprove everything you say about his fundamentals. This really is beginning to be Bargnani 2.0. It's no trouble to tell he's struggling, that's the only time the haters come out. I think the only reasonable step now is to make an "Everything DeRozan" thread so we can keep it all in one place and prevent it from poisoning every thread on the forums.

You're a student, so I'll assume you're a younger fan. Once you've been around for awhile, you will learn that Raptor fans always need a scapegoat to cast the sins of the organization on. It's easier that way to deal with crapiness of the entire organization.

Before Derozan, there was Bargnani. Before Bargnani, there was Bosh. Before Bosh, there was Carter. Before Carter, there was McGrady. Before McGrady, there was Mighty Mouse. Thus it has always been, thus it will always be.

Now, once in awhile enough people wake up and wonder why people like Glen Grunwald and Rob Babcock are making personnel decisions (as though unimportant tasks like drafting, signing free agents, trading players and building a team matter). This will result in management being replaced. The new management team will generally be feted and, since it's too painful and scary to believe that the guys running the place for the next 5 years are terrible (e.g. Babcock) or, in the case of the current management team, have done a horrible job to date, Raptors fans will pick a new player to blame the team's woes on. This makes Raptor fans feel better as they watch another 28-win season secure in the knowledge that once that awful player is gone, everything will turn a corner.

[NoPropsneeded]

Demar is not a good basketball player. Have not been on his bankwagon and never will be. His offence is supposed to be his strength and it is really not that good at all - his fundamentals are horrible - he does not use screens properly, does not pin and pop effectivelyto get open on the wing (watch to see home many times Calderon looks him off because he has not gotten himself open), never even uses a jab step or ball fake to get the defender 'off balance' so he can attack the rim. These are all basic things you learn in high-school. He is one of those players (see Fred Jones) who has relied on his athleticism to get him this far. However, he does not have the tools to succeed. His defence and basketball IQ are horrible, and to top it all off he seems extremly soft.

You might be confusing DeRozan with yourself.

[NoPropsneeded]

Is anyone but me sick of the DeRozan hate yet..? I think people are taking it way too far in saying how shit he is.. Go back and watch video of how he played last year and it'll disprove everything you say about his fundamentals. This really is beginning to be Bargnani 2.0. It's no trouble to tell he's struggling, that's the only time the haters come out. I think the only reasonable step now is to make an "Everything DeRozan" thread so we can keep it all in one place and prevent it from poisoning every thread on the forums.

ya its complete BS. Once he gets the offense going and our perimeter players start hitting some shots he'll be all good. It takes time with a new coach and limited practice time.

[mcHAPPY]

Is anyone but me sick of the DeRozan hate yet..? I think people are taking it way too far in saying how shit he is.. Go back and watch video of how he played last year and it'll disprove everything you say about his fundamentals. This really is beginning to be Bargnani 2.0. It's no trouble to tell he's struggling, that's the only time the haters come out. I think the only reasonable step now is to make an "Everything DeRozan" thread so we can keep it all in one place and prevent it from poisoning every thread on the forums.

By Valentine's Day the bandwagon will be full again. You can remind the haters at that time.

I think he'll snap out of it but he is certainly driving me nuts at this time. The pussy-ness and demeanour upset me more than anything in his current stat line.

If anything these struggles are showing all that he should not be considered untouchable and if he can help net an established wing player, there should be no hesitation pulling the trigger.

[charlz]

By Valentine's Day the bandwagon will be full again. You can remind the haters at that time.

I think he'll snap out of it but he is certainly driving me nuts at this time. The pussy-ness and demeanour upset me more than anything in his current stat line.

If anything these struggles are showing all that he should not be considered untouchable and if he can help net an established wing player, there should be no hesitation pulling the trigger.

I agree - I think the swings between ineptness and brilliance are part of the maturation process - he is only 22. Vince Carters early time in Toronto set the bars so high it is a tad unfair.

[NoPropsneeded]

I agree - I think the swings between ineptness and brilliance are part of the maturation process - he is only 22. Vince Carters early time in Toronto set the bars so high it is a tad unfair.

lol that is so true. Vince came in and played like a superstar, probably dunked on the entire league in his rookie season. The two things demar is lacking is the energy and killer mentality. He lets his teammates do the work thinking he doesn't have to do anything. Vince carter, even though he was a douche, put the team on his back from the start of the game. DeMar needs to learn to do that

[Nilanka]

lol that is so true. Vince came in and played like a superstar, probably dunked on the entire league in his rookie season. The two things demar is lacking is the energy and killer mentality. He lets his teammates do the work thinking he doesn't have to do anything. Vince carter, even though he was a douche, put the team on his back from the start of the game. DeMar needs to learn to do that

DeMar doesn't have the athletic ability, nor the fundamental skill set to ever duplicate what Carter did.

[mcHAPPY]

DeMar doesn't have the athletic ability, nor the fundamental skill set to ever duplicate what Carter did.

I agree.

DeMar is very athletic and can do some crazy dunks. However, he does not translate those abilities very well in to a game situation. Do people forget Vince dunked OVER a 7'2" french guy in the Olympics? That is just one of many, "OMG!" in game moments. If DeMar doesn't have a clear path to the hoop, he is rarely dunking.

I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here: Rip Hamilton is the game DeMar should be striving to mirror.

[Nilanka]

Amazing dunk...one of the greatest in basketball history, no doubt.

But this is my favourite Carter dunk:

[mcHAPPY]

Amazing dunk...one of the greatest in basketball history, no doubt.

But this is my favourite Carter dunk:

That is something that DeMar could do.

Vince probably could have still done that dunk with someone right there with him contesting the ball or between him and the rim. That is where DeMar fails - he can't physically take the contact and/or he can't focus on the task at hand (putting the ball through the rim).

[Nilanka]

We like to make fun of Vince as being a whiner, and a pussy, but the dude was strong. I mean, to take contact from the likes of Mutumbo or Mourning, and still throw it down....that takes some serious strength (and concentration).

You're right, I just can't see DeMar pulling anything like that.

[NoPropsneeded]

I think it has to do more with wing span and agility. Carter had long arms and was quick and agile, he reached over the top of guys and threw it down. DeRozan has a more muscular build and he is less agile and shorter arms(i think) i'll compare their wingspans cause i might be wrong. Just a guess

[Apollo]

I don't understand why DeRozan has to be as good as Vince Carter or why he has to play the game like Vince Carter for him to be worth keeping. His contract isn't large and if he's as bad as some people make him out to be in here then his trade value would be minimal. I personally think he should add some muscle and make the shift to small forward.

[Nilanka]

I don't understand why DeRozan has to be as good as Vince Carter or why he has to play the game like Vince Carter for him to be worth keeping. His contract isn't large and if he's as bad as some people make him out to be in here then his trade value would be minimal. I personally think he should add some muscle and make the shift to small forward.

I realize every player goes through slumps. And DeRozan being a young player, makes it that much more understandable.

But from watching him play this season, the worry is that his problems go beyond the common slump, and instead might show an inability to improve in key areas.

If we look at his ball-handling skills, there have been slight improvements since his rookie year. He has a spin move now, and a behind-the-back dribble....but overall, his handles are still pretty bad. I'm not sure if his dribbling will ever be where it needs to be, to be a solid SG in this league.

Nobody expects DeRozan to be Vince. We're just expecting him to be productive...which so far this year, he hasn't been. And the reason seems to point more towards a lack of ability than anything else.

[Apollo]

But from watching him play this season, the worry is that his problems go beyond the common slump, and instead might show an inability to improve in key areas.

If we look at his ball-handling skills, there have been slight improvements since his rookie year. He has a spin move now, and a behind-the-back dribble....but overall, his handles are still pretty bad. I'm not sure if his dribbling will ever be where it needs to be, to be a solid SG in this league.

Nobody expects DeRozan to be Vince. We're just expecting him to be productive...which so far this year, he hasn't been. And the reason seems to point more towards a lack of ability than anything else.

Right and you're basing this on 15 games this season. Trade him now because he's been struggling off and on over the first 15 games. Does that sound reasonable? If the Raptors traded a player every time fans got on the internet complaining the team would have turned over six times in the past three years. Part of developing a roster from the ground up is giving players time to develop and work things out. If his struggles were a case of him being lazy. not practicing, not working out and dogging it in games that would be a different story. The reality is that he's a hard worker.