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Is the Future not as Bright? (or is the future brighter? see post 130)

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  • #31
    the problem with Demar is he already thinks he's All-Star status.....hes had everything handed to him thus far.. he needs a Kobe like mentality, some skills at creating his own shot & he has to be more consistant with his shooting.. in this his third year in the league & third year starting i would have thought hed be further along by now... he's too RAW...everyday he looks more like a joey graham than anyone else... he may have that light turn on & start tearing it up... but i doubt it... he wont be here past his current deal im sure of it

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    • #32
      DeMar will definitely step it up. Once he starts understanding the system and gets more comfortable he'll play better and hopefully average above 20PPG. You never know what the future holds

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      • #33
        DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
        the problem with Demar is he already thinks he's All-Star status.....hes had everything handed to him thus far.. he needs a Kobe like mentality, some skills at creating his own shot & he has to be more consistant with his shooting.. in this his third year in the league & third year starting i would have thought hed be further along by now... he's too RAW...everyday he looks more like a joey graham than anyone else... he may have that light turn on & start tearing it up... but i doubt it... he wont be here past his current deal im sure of it
        irony.
        TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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        • #34
          yertu damkule wrote: View Post
          gee, nil, what happened in the span of a few hours?

          'I realize watching this team lose 7 of their last 8 games is excruciatingly frustrating, but this team is playing EXACTLY how we expected them to prior to the start of the season. We shouldn't let the early season "success" trick us into thinking we're better than we are. Everything is unfolding according to plan.

          Management warned us that this will be a bad year in terms of wins. When Magloire, Butler, Forbes, Gray and Carter are considered "key" acquisitions, that tells you all you need to know about how bad this team is...and it's by design.

          Bare with the ugly basketball for now, let the coaches figure out which players are worth keeping (using a full 66 games), and watch Colangelo transform this team into something we can [finally] be proud of this summer. During his last attempt, Colangelo turned a 27-win team into a 47-win team. Only this time he's armed with two top-10 draft picks, and potentially more cap space (depending on the fate of Calderon). Things will turned around....it's all but guaranteed. And no, this opinion isn't a result of drinking kool-aid.'
          lol, a few hours ago, I was speaking on the assumption that this is just early season struggles for the kids. If DeRozan, Davis et. al improve on last year, and play well enough to be considered part of the future, then the future truly is bright (which is the most likely scenario).

          But this topic was started based on the first 14 games, where the kids haven't looked very good at all. I know there's plenty of time left for them to step up, but if they continue to falter, then them team doesn't look quite as good moving forward as it did 2 months ago.

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          • #35
            I personally am ok with the losses, but I wanted to see signs that demar and Ed were soild starters with a chance of a all star between them. JJ shows signs v as a, decent SF backup, Aj has shown his value, barbosa is playing well and despite.what many think i do believe he would get us a soild late first round pick.

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            • #36
              Apostis wrote: View Post
              barbosa is playing well and despite.what many think i do believe he would get us a soild late first round pick.
              How many teams holding late round picks have the cap space to eat that $9M?

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              • #37
                slaw wrote: View Post
                I agree but I think that timeline is not really what people were anticipating. I think a lot of people felt like Derozan and Davis were core pieces and you'd add JV and the 2012 pick and that would be the core. You'd build around that. Playoffs in 2014 here we come. Now, I think people are realizing that it's quite likely the Raps don't have a single core piece going forward (other than Bargs who is going to be 30 before this team is any good) and it's going to take JV, 2012 1st rounder, 2013 1st rounder, plus maybe another pick in there somewhere before the core is even established.

                I don't think the disappointment stems from losing, rather from the realization that this team is light years away from being any good.
                That is a great and valid point.

                Personally, I think DD and ED are better than they are showing and within a few weeks this will be like a bad dream (or I hope!).

                The Raptors could also be in discussions with teams this summer regarding very talented and highly paid players. Toronto will have cap space to take back unequal salary, young talent (again, I think DD and ED are better than playing and in a few weeks will have shown it), a rotational player or two on reasonable salary, and future draft picks.

                *warning: speaking out of my ass is forthcoming*

                Look at a guy like Rudy Gay, for example. He, Gasol, and Randolph are on max contracts yet it appears they are unable to co-exist. Randolph goes down and now MEM is starting to put some wins together (as well as some close loses against top teams - forget the blowout Chicago game). So lets assume Memphis front office can't justify luxury tax for a team with 1 too many alpha dog (Randolph/Gay) and questionable to even make the playoffs. I think Gay would be the easier player to move. Imagine Rudy Gay as the Raptors starting SF (btw, he started slow but he is playing amazing the last 5 games). I think the Raptors are a .500 team and in the playoffs (but that is just my opinion). Yes, Gay is overpaid but that might only make the cost of trading for him a little more reasonable.

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                • #38
                  Apollo wrote: View Post
                  How many teams holding late round picks have the cap space to eat that $9M?
                  The only teams I am aware of would be LAL (Odom exemption), DEN (Anthony exemption), and IND (cap space).

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                  • #39
                    Demar just doens't have that killer instinct.

                    Looking at the game on the offensive end, he just isn't aggressive. He doesn't cut & find ways to the basket, he's a stagnant player out there, just begging for the ball to come to him. Barbosa has been more successful recently because, well....He's been aggressive.

                    Demar can be a very good player in this league. Star? No, an all-star? Possibly. He can be a gym rat all he wants, but the time that shows is when he develops that mental toughness, and becomes that type of player that continues to attack attack attack, whether you get the foul or not. He's been looking for calls after drives, and he's just gotta play through contact.
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                    • #40
                      heinz57 wrote: View Post
                      i'm not disappointed AT ALL..

                      casey completely changed the team culture... and two of the players who have bought in the most are probably the two most unlikely to (bargs and jose)

                      changes dont happen overnight... with barely any preseason and training camp, and this early into a shortened season with a very busy schedule, and BARGS has bought into a DEFENSIVE philosophy change?

                      that's pretty amazing...

                      i'm pleasantly surprised he's caught on so fast... but the fact that young kids, who've been stuck in their ways never playing for more than 2 or 3 coaches in their lives... never having been asked to change their game.. are having a tougher time adjusting to a drastic change... it's not really a surprise

                      give them time... if they're still this shite 2/3 of the way through the season, then bury them...

                      JJ has time to practice his jumper..
                      Ed and Demar have time to grow some balls..
                      Bayless......... to be honest, i damn near forgot he was even on the team
                      Shyte I get a kick out of your posts on here, and though don't always agree with your opinions, I do far more often than not.
                      You pretty much said what i would have, though in a more amusing way. The only thing I would add is that the other thing that makes this such an unusual season and should be considered when addressing the progress, is that these young players were completely on there own for the whole very extended off season. A normal off season would likely have had DD,ED,Bayless,JJ playing summer league (not odd charity showboating crap) and the coaching staff would have been able to guide them and work with them on skill development, etc. None of that was possible, so what we're seeing out of the young guys so far is trying to accomplish what would have been done through the summer, and a proper training camp and preseason. And trying to accomplish that while dealing with an incredibly cramped schedule with precious little practice time.
                      Nilanka, you made a great post about patience over in the blogs. Stay the course buddy, just as we hope management and coaching staff does the same and doesn't panic.

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                      • #41
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        The only teams I am aware of would be LAL (Odom exemption), DEN (Anthony exemption), and IND (cap space).
                        Found the following link:
                        http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...exceptions.jsp

                        Lists all the TPE's that teams have. Barbosa is owed $7.6M (according to Hoopshype). So using a TPE (and TPE alone), the only two teams that can take on Barbosa's contract (without having to trade players) are LAL and Utah.

                        If Utah continues to play well (which is doubtful, but still), they may want to make a playoff push with Barbosa. Utah does not have their own 1st round pick (traded to Minny), but they have GSW's (top 7 protected). I wonder if Utah would be willing to trade that pick for Barbosa at the trade deadline? They could use the depth at both PG and SG as that's their big weakness. But that might be asking for too much. GSW's pick could be pretty good in a deep draft, and Utah may not want to trade that for a rental.

                        Of course you could also trade him to teams like Indiana who have the cap space, as you suggested.

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                        • #42
                          ceez wrote: View Post
                          I don't know what to say
                          Deep breaths, it seems the season starts and everyone thinks the team should be in the finals...
                          WJF wrote: View Post
                          What type of player were you expecting Ed to be? I never thought the guy was going to be a future allstar, I think he can be a Udonis Haslem with better length and shot blocking. I never thought the guy would be much more than a 10-13 ppg game, but he can get you 10 boards a night with 1.5-2 block per. While he is not there yet, he is not far off either.
                          +1

                          ceez wrote: View Post
                          only disappointment to me is Demar. i'm sure his production scoring-wise will go up eventually but his defense and fire have been sorely lacking.
                          This is it, slumps come and go, but if you aren't givin' 'er in the games...

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                          • #43
                            I think DeMar and Ed Davis are still very good players. There is a lot of pressure on DeMar to be the guy and he just needs to play his game. I think DeMar is a good 3rd scoring option on a good team. Right now teams are focusing on him and he just needs to get comfortable in the system. I do agree he has to work harder for his shot. Look how hard Ray Allen works to get his open looks. He doesn't have the same shooting ability but he has the motor. If we add a stud SF in this draft as the #1 scoring option, Bargs as the #2, and DeMar should be a more effective player. He is still raw and will become a very good player.

                            As for Ed, I don't want to put a ceiling on him, but I think he could become a Horace Grant or Dale Davis type player. Both players were great in their roles. I would love to see him emulate their games.

                            J.J. is a good energy guy off the bench, and that's a bout it. I like his personality and his hustle. He just needs to work on his shooting and his problem turning over the ball.

                            Bayless should be let go during the off season. I don't see value in him as a point guard and he is a black hole when the ball hits his hands.


                            With our cap flexibility, the draft and the further development of our players I think we will make the play offs next year. After all it is a week conference.

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                            • #44
                              Didn't have time to read this entire thread so forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else has already said, but I'm not at all disappointed in DeRozan and Davis. Anyone who thought that DeRozan was somehow going to be develop into a star this year was completely deluding themselves. For that to happen, you would have had to be expecting him to improve his shooting, his ball handling and driving ability, his passing, his finishing and his defensive awareness all in one offseason. Wasn't ever gonna happen. He has WAY too many holes in his game, especially given how much work his shot has needed. Frankly to me the disappointment is that the Raptors have asked him to become a jump shooting guard instead of having him work on his driving/slashing game first and his jumper second, because right now DeRozan is almost completely capable of generating his own shot unless it's a long 2.

                              Same thing goes for Ed Davis. These guys aren't high lottery picks with polished games or overwhelming talent, they're athletic players that need significant development time. DeMar is going to need at least another 2 seasons before he becomes a consistent 20 ppg threat, and Davis may need just as long to develop any kind of post game. The good news is that Colangelo might be able to sign DeRozan to a contract that'll look like a steal down the line, much like Andrea's is now looking (and god it hurts me to say that).

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                              • #45
                                planetmars wrote: View Post
                                Found the following link:
                                http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...exceptions.jsp

                                Lists all the TPE's that teams have. Barbosa is owed $7.6M (according to Hoopshype). So using a TPE (and TPE alone), the only two teams that can take on Barbosa's contract (without having to trade players) are LAL and Utah.

                                If Utah continues to play well (which is doubtful, but still), they may want to make a playoff push with Barbosa. Utah does not have their own 1st round pick (traded to Minny), but they have GSW's (top 7 protected). I wonder if Utah would be willing to trade that pick for Barbosa at the trade deadline? They could use the depth at both PG and SG as that's their big weakness. But that might be asking for too much. GSW's pick could be pretty good in a deep draft, and Utah may not want to trade that for a rental.

                                Of course you could also trade him to teams like Indiana who have the cap space, as you suggested.
                                Thanks for the link.

                                I thought Denver still had a good portion of their $17M Carmelo exemption.

                                They signed Nene and Afflalo with Bird's Rights so no hit to exemption.

                                Felton was traded for Miller so no hit to exemption as almost equal salaries.

                                The only use of it I was aware of was Brewer and Fernandez which would have been around $5M leaving what I thought to be around $12M.

                                The traded player exception for Anthony will be worth approximately $17.15M and is greater than any other in NBA history.

                                Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/211261/Nuggets_Will_Receive_Four_Traded_Player_Exceptions _One_A_League_Record_$1715M#ixzz1jkSIW5qu

                                I could be wrong on this and it wouldn't be the first time, but unless I am missing another use of the TPE, I think I'm right.

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