Is the Future not as Bright? (or is the future brighter? see post 130)

[NoPropsneeded]

This year is for evaluating talent and developing the young players. Next year is when things start getting serious

[Balls of Steel]

You guys are shitting on this guy after 16 games... You'll eat your words when he starts playing good again. Like Matt said by February everyone will be back on the bandwagon. You can't expect him to score 20 + points every night coming off a locked out season with a really short training camp and an entirely new coaching staff and philosophy.

I can't wait until it's February. I mean, it's only 10 days away! It's amazing what the next 10 days hold as far as the balance of the season is concerned. I want to make sure I have the best seat in the bandwagon! Ten days, HERE WE COME!!!

[mcHAPPY]

I can't wait until it's February. I mean, it's only 10 days away! It's amazing what the next 10 days hold as far as the balance of the season is concerned. I want to make sure I have the best seat in the bandwagon! Ten days, HERE WE COME!!!

For the record, I'm saying Valentine's Day.

[Nilanka]

No, I'm making a very valid point. If you don't think it's a fair trade then why would a group of pros who do this for a living think it's a fair trade? And if he's as limited and hopeless as you think he is, why would they look to bring him in? The Grizz are a team on the rise. This sounds like a step back for them based on all the comments I'm reading in here about it.

Is it really that unreasonable to assume that they are folks out there who think DeMar has a ton of upside? I think not.

[Soft Euro]

The Appolo - Nilanka discussion seems remarkably similar to a discussion in the Bargnani thread a little over a month ago.

At the moment of these quotes there was talk about Bargnani's off season work and play with the Italian national team; Tim and Nilanka were basically arguing that there was no way that Bargnani would improve enough on defense to make him even average and that all rebounding improvement wouldn't be more than temporary.

They were of the opinion that his tradevalue in the future would only decline and that he should be traded as long as there were still GM's who believed he could turn it around (or his deficiencies hidden) with a good coach and a good system. When the season would start and the teams would see that it even didn't work with Casey (which was a certainty) his tradevalue would decline. So we had to trade him now while there was still a chance to fool people.

If Bargnani really is in such great shape at the moment, his trade value should theoretically be higher now than it would be when scouts disect his game once real games start. The time to trade Bargnani is now.

We'd be lucky to receive anything of value in exchange for Bargnani after it's proven he's a defensive pylon. The time to trade him is before the proof is in the pudding. Some moronic GM might hold a glimmer of hope that Bargnani can be an effective 2-way player on a contending team. Right now, that moronic GM is Colangelo.

Not giving an opinion about it; just pointing out what, to me, was a deja vu.

[Apollo]

Is it really that unreasonable to assume that they are folks out there who think DeMar has a ton of upside? I think not.

I think its possible. It just funny to read you rip him a new one with such conviction and then turn around a pose a trade which goes counter to what you just said.

The Appolo - Nilanka discussion seems remarkably similar to a discussion in the Bargnani thread a little over a month ago.

At the moment of these quotes there was talk about Bargnani's off season work and play with the Italian national team; Tim and Nilanka were basically arguing that there was no way that Bargnani would improve enough on defense to make him even average and that all rebounding improvement wouldn't be more than temporary.

They were of the opinion that his tradevalue in the future would only decline and that he should be traded as long as there were still GM's who believed he could turn it around (or his deficiencies hidden) with a good coach and a good system. When the season would start and the teams would see that it even didn't work with Casey (which was a certainty) his tradevalue would decline. So we had to trade him now while there was still a chance to fool people.





Not giving an opinion about it; just pointing out what, to me, was a deja vu.

You right in drawing that comparison. It all comes down to two different philosophies. I believe in giving a player ample time to develop and I believe in loyalty. They seem to treat this strictly like a stock market. The only problem with that is stocks can't choose to avoid your portfolio like players can and stocks don't work together and they don't get together and talk. If the Raptors want to take on the strategy of tossing guys under the bus during the first sign of adversity then they're only going to hurt what little positive reputation that have. You need to be willing to ride out some struggles when it comes to player development, it's all part of it.

DeMar works hard in practice and in the off-season. He's doing everything he can to become a really good player. He deserves to be on the Raptors and we deserve to see if it can work.

[Nilanka]

For the record, I'm still not sold on Bargnani's transformation being a permanent one (yet). He was definitely busting his ass up until his injury, but I'm curious to see if that effort will be there in April when we're 40 games below .500.

Regardless, I was always able to admit that Bargnani had skill on the offensive end. But with DeRozan, it's hard to see any skill on either end so far this season.

[Nilanka]

I think its possible. It just funny to read you rip him a new one with such conviction and then turn around a pose a trade which goes counter to what you just said.

Ripping him a new one? That might be a tad dramatic, don't you think? I was simply pointing out the holes in DeRozan's game, which for all intents and purposes, are true.

And I don't deny that he's got potential to turn into a great player one day. I'm just saying I don't like the idea of waiting another 3 years to see if it "might" happen.

[Apollo]

They're in a rebuild. Waiting three years on a player is par for the course.

[Raptorsss]

I think too many people have it wrong with Demar..his biggest obstacle, is himself he takes his struggles way too hard. When he gets down on himself..he has a hard time getting back in the game. When teams are focusing on you as the number one scoring option and you're playing in a half-court offense for the first time you'll struggle.

Also, I wouldn't trade DD for Reke or Jennings. Reke although being a more natural scorer, is a bit of a head case and has work ethic issues.. Jennings is a chucker pure and simple.. He may be quixk and decent defensively, but I wouldn't want him to take more than 10 shots a game on my team.

DD is only in his second year of trying to play as a mutli-dimensional player. Since, he got to the NBA on atleticism, ethic and character alone. It's only in these last two seasons where he has to develop b-ball IQ, defensive awareness, and jump shooting. A stiff learning curve.

So,at 22 he's a bit behind the ball in terms of being a polished player, but he still has tremendous upside considering the strides he has made in two years.

[NoPropsneeded]

I think too many people have it wrong with Demar..his biggest obstacle, is himself he takes his struggles way too hard. When he gets down on himself..he has a hard time getting back in the game. When teams are focusing on you as the number one scoring option and you're playing in a half-court offense for the first time you'll struggle.

Also, I wouldn't trade DD for Reke or Jennings. Reke although being a more natural scorer, is a bit of a head case and has work ethic issues.. Jennings is a chucker pure and simple.. He may be quixk and decent defensively, but I wouldn't want him to take more than 10 shots a game on my team.

DD is only in his second year of trying to play as a mutli-dimensional player. Since, he got to the NBA on atleticism, ethic and character alone. It's only in these last two seasons where he has to develop b-ball IQ, defensive awareness, and jump shooting. A stiff learning curve.

So,at 22 he's a bit behind the ball in terms of being a polished player, but he still has tremendous upside considering the strides he has made in two years.

+1 nice post and your definitley right about that. DeMar will end up a more all around player in the future, Tyreke is a scorer and same with Jennings. DeMar has the potential to do more than that

[mcHAPPY]

Mitch

I’ve watched every game thsi year and am very worried as a Raptor fan. This team appears farther away than JV, 2012 first round pick, and notable free agent from competing. Raptors fans are panicking about the ‘core’ (ED, DD, Amir, JJ, Bayless). Do they have reason to be?

Stephen Brotherston

No panic needed. This is the plan and despite the pain of watching the team without Bargs – this gives the coaches and managers exactly what they need to evaluate which guys are keepers.

Colangelo plans on adding 4 new rotation players next season from the draft & FA – players who don’t improve know what that means. Fans should too.

Source: HoopsWorld.com chat with Brotherston.

Not sure where Steve gets the number of 4 new players but the underlined section is an interesting comment and most specific thing I've read on next year so far this season.

[NoPropsneeded]

3 of them are Draft picks and 1 free agent. Miller/MKG/Barnes, Kabongo, and JV. The FA will most likely be a PG, Raymond Felton?

[saints91]

It seems to me, that DD is trying to play that type of early VC game. The problem is he doesn't have the strength and/or concentration to dunk on people and finish through contact like VC did.

In another thread I mentioned I thought DeMar should start watching Rip Hamilton tape. I think he has a skill set and ability where his game would be similar to Rip's.

If DeMar can't bang with the SG's of the league, he is in trouble going against the LeBron's and Gay's of the league.


(Heinz - I just gave you a hanging curve ball)

I think Rip and DeMar are two very different players. Rip came in the league with amazing shooting ability, I think it's something you develop early in your basketball career. I compare Rip in the same category as Reggie Miller, Allan Houston, and Ray Allan, they are all pure shooters.

I would like to see Demar bulk up a bit and add the post to his game. I don't think he will be an elite shooter or even a threat, but if he can add more elements to his game like a pull up jumper, post game and a maybe improve his ball handling enough to be able to attack the rim he will be valuable to this team. Ideally I would like him to be a Latrell Spreewell type player, but less chokey.

If he is a career 14pg, 4reb, 3 assist guy that will be great. I'm happy with him as a 3rd option, with Bargs being option #2 and hopefully this years draft pick being the #1. If Jonas comes in and plays a defensive, rebounding role and we can find a pass first, defensive point guard I think we are in good hands.

I think we expect way to much out of DeMar.

[Nilanka]

Maybe Brotherston confused the term "rotation players" with any players in general. Because we all know guys like Magloire, Carter, Butler, and Gray will be replaced next year.