Free Agency 2012

[Raptor_11]

We should start considering a trade for Lowry or signing Dragic...the longer this drags on, the more likely we are to get nothing

Yup. BC better be sure he's getting Nash if he's gonna wait on him any longer

[Prime]

He outplayed Lowry and if you ask majority of the Rockets fans they'll tell you that.

How do you outplay a man in a suit on your bench?

[thead]

How do you outplay a man in a suit on your bench?

by default

[Jackson]

Heres an objective comparison. I realize this isnt the end all of either players value.

Last season:
Nash- 12.5ppg - 10.7apg - 3rpg - 0.6spg - 3.7tpg
Dragic (when starting)- 18ppg - 8.4apg - 3.5rpg - 1.8spg - 3.2tpg

*Nash shot the ball a bit better in all three categories but Dragic is up there too in efficiency.
*Dragic played more mpg as a starter but that shouldn't matter as its unlikely Nash's minutes will go up. He played 32 mpg, has some injury issues and is getting older.

I like both for the Raptors, but I also think both the Nash deal and Dragic's asking price are too high. Id personally take Dragic as I like him for the future and think hes a far better defender, so long as he isnt asking more than 5 years (or is this already the max length under new CBA rules?). 4 would be ideal

[Blacklash2k4]

You should really look at some stats and facts before making erroneous claims on Fields.

lol don't even bother with him. He's just a very angry little boy :P

[ReubenJRD]

You said he was 10th man.

According to our good friend Liston, he played 2nd most number of minutes of any knick last year.

That does not meet the generally accepted criteria of 10th man in the NBA.

+1

[IROR]

i would much rather fields to another 4/3 player.

I'd rather have Ersan than Ed Davis...uprgrade at the backup 4 plus, he's a guy who can rebound and defend the 3 better than anyone the Raps have at that spot...makes JJ and ED expendable for a trade to uprgrade another position (Rudy Gay, Kyle Lowry, Luol Deng). ALthough Lowry seems unlikely now, as talks broke down at the draft, and Houston now has about 18 PFs

[Blacklash2k4]

This message board is out of it's mind. Every critical response is met by an avalanche of excuses from fanboys/homers . Landry Fields sucks. No other team would offer him $20 million, simple as that. Having Nash/Fields at $55 million for 3 seasons is a horrible deal. That's max money for a 40 year old and a bench guy.

You seriously have some mental deficiency. You might want to take a freaking chill pill. Like I said before, if you're so fucking smart, why don't you stop posting, go to the MLSE office, show them your credentials, get hired as a GM and show us all how it's done. If not, STFU!

[Blacklash2k4]

The problem we have with you is your manufactured facts. You create the fact you want and then argue your opinion, instead of letting the facts dictate your opinion.

Landry Fields is a mild over pay...I suspect we are paying about 3 - 4 million more than he is worth over the life of his contract. In his third year it gives us either a 9 million dollar expiring trade chip...a very solid wing guy we go forward with and at the worst....9 million comes off our books at the end of that season

Steve Nash is a mild over pay....At 38 I don't suspect he would deteriorate that quickly. But he is likely worth 27 - 30 million over three years. 12 is an over pay but again. After he generously donates three years of leadership/development and wins to the Raptors. He comes off the books.

Amir Johnson & Bargnani also come off the books then. If you haven't noticed yet. The play is for accelerated development over the next 3 years - re-evaluate what we have then (40 million comes off the books if all four players are signed and kept until that point) and move forward accordingly.

I would not be surprised if we over pay at least one more veteran (Grant Hill) on a 3 year deal.

now to your adjusted 48 minutes thing. It doesn't take into account when those minutes were played who they were played against....i.e. garbage time(Forbes) vs defending starters(Fields)

As someone said Alabi's per 48 minutes is a perfect example of this...which I will now post.

19.2 ppg 27.2 rebounds 5 blocks <---------perennial all star and HOF numbers for sure.

Stats can say whatever you want them to. So it's CRITICAL you look at more than the ones that support your pre-existing opinion. Rather read a bunch...read reviews, read scouting reports, read opinions counter to your own and for a SPLIT second consider what if I'm wrong? Even if you land back on your original opinion...the more experienced posters here would likely stop savaging your every post.

If you looked just at stats....Landry Fields was a garbage signing. HOWEVER if you have the context of a superstar egomaniac black hole no defense playing coach killing Carmelo Anthony, a change in system. You would be better off examining how he played with a pass first PG. I.E. his Rookie stats and time without Melo are more indicative of who he will be.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Good job!

[Raptorsss]

With those advanced stats, Alabi should be our starting center for the next decade

[DoNDaDDa]

With those advanced stats, Alabi should be our starting center for the next decade

with those advanced stats Alabi's the next Wilt the Stilt! LOL...

[Soft Euro]

Yes, Ilyasova can rebound, but does he help the team to be better at rebounding?

Just for the sake of argument, let's also take a closer look at this rebounding numbers, which similarly jumped this past season. Ersan is more crafty than strong and more instinctive than athletic on the glass, and he tends to have a bigger impact on offensive rebounding that he does when it comes to keeping opponents off the boards. Looking at the team rebounding percentages when he is on/off the court, Ilyasova has consistently improved Milwaukee's offensive rebound rate when on the floor, and always raised it to a mark that would be the equivalent of a top-10 team in the NBA.

Unfortunately, he's had trouble making the same impact when it comes to keeping counterparts away from the rim on the other end. When Andrew Bogut was around, the Bucks always finished in the top-10 in defensive rebound rate (ie-keeping opponents off the glass), but this past season they ranked 25th overall and were by far the worst in the league with Ersan on the floor -- the Golden State Warriors finished last with a DRR of 69.14%, while the Bucks only managed a pitiful 66.6% rate (!) with Ilyasova on the floor.

Source

[Raptorsss]

Also, everyone here realizes that Ersan only exploded because he was in a contract year, right?

[G-locity]

if rap ends up signing him, more moves will be made, this we all know for sure, why else would BC stock pile a shit load of SF/PF's for.

[Mindlessness]

With those advanced stats, Alabi should be our starting center for the next decade

ALABI IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

But let's stick to the point here guys

[draftedraptor]

Also, everyone here realizes that Ersan only exploded because he was in a contract year, right?

This is true for most professionals.

motivations aside, atleast we know he is quite capable.

[NoBan]

Noban: Landy Fields is garbage and not worth close to $20 for 3 years. Nobody but BC would do that. It's stupid
Raps Repub: Get your facts right!
Noban: According to per 48 minutes and PER, Fields compares less than favourably to Gary Forbes.
Raps Repub: Hey, those aren't the facts we should be using!

The lesson: Raps Repub seems to blindly defend Raptors moves.

Fields compares poorly to our own scrub (Forbes) and to the 2 main wing players on the horrible Bobcats (Maggette and Henderson). He's a below average player that we've offered average to above average money to. If best reason to be optimistic about a signing is "hey, the guy played with a superstar last year," shouldn't more fans be skeptical of the move?

[LateBoomer]

Either Nash or Dragic will do for me.
Both has upsides to consider, Nash being a culture changer, and Dragic being young.
However l tend to lean more towards Nash.
Other than making the Raptors a guaranteed playoff team, he will bring back respectability to his team which has been missing since Bosh left.
Nash is a player magnet too, as he always made every one around him better,
so we can expect other players to consider playing with him in Toronto.
He may not be able to turn things around immediately, but within that 3 years, with Nash's creativity and charisma,
this gamble by BC will bear fruit for sure.

[Soft Euro]

Noban: Landy Fields is garbage and not worth close to $20 for 3 years. Nobody but BC would do that. It's stupid
Raps Repub: Get your facts right!
Noban: According to per 48 minutes and PER, Fields compares less than favourably to Gary Forbes.
Raps Repub: Hey, those aren't the facts we should be using!

The lesson: Raps Repub seems to blindly defend Raptors moves.

Fields compares poorly to our own scrub (Forbes) and to the 2 main wing players on the horrible Bobcats (Maggette and Henderson). He's a below average player that we've offered average to above average money to. If best reason to be optimistic about a signing is "hey, the guy played with a superstar last year," shouldn't more fans be skeptical of the move?

Raps Repub: you are generalizing and ranting in the wrong thread; this one is about Ilyasova.

[NoBan]

Raps Repub: you are generalizing and ranting in the wrong thread; this one is about Ilyasova.

Hey I just came here to say I like Ersan much more than Landry and then was tarred/feathered for talking bad about the landry offer.