View Poll Results: Who should be #1 on the Raptors' list to sign?

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39. You may not vote on this poll
  • Nash

    13 33.33%
  • Batum

    15 38.46%
  • Mayo

    2 5.13%
  • Lin

    2 5.13%
  • Lee

    1 2.56%
  • Fields

    4 10.26%
  • Hinrich

    1 2.56%
  • Kidd

    0 0%
  • L.Williams

    0 0%
  • Green

    1 2.56%
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Thread: Free Agency 2012

  1. #841
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Via Hoopshype.com:




    It really does not sound like Batum is going anywhere.
    I honestly think that Batum is one the most over-hyped targets of the summer. I'm glad to hear this news.

    I would gladly pay Gay $17 million, than Batum $12 million.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #842
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Until he gets here, has some games under his belt and everyone sees he's not a max money player. What then?

  3. #843
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Until he gets here, has some games under his belt and everyone sees he's not a max money player. What then?
    i don't mind getting gay and nash for 3 years to see what happens and then when they are off the books a lot of options open up again in 3 years time.

  4. #844
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Until he gets here, has some games under his belt and everyone sees he's not a max money player. What then?
    We already know Gay isn't a max money player. But that doesn't mean his production is going to fall off a cliff. He'll still be the brightest talent on this roster (outside of maybe Jonas).

    EDIT: Think of it as a free agent acquisition, in which we would have to overpay anyway. Only this way, we're not bogged down for 5 years.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Thu Jun 7th, 2012 at 11:49 AM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  5. #845
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Until he gets here, has some games under his belt and everyone sees he's not a max money player. What then?
    I hope everyone is aware that Gay is not a max player. While overpaid, he is not excessively overpaid. We are still talking about a guy who has a market value of around $12M - strictly my opinion.

  6. #846
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I hope everyone is aware that Gay is not a max player. While overpaid, he is not excessively overpaid. We are still talking about a guy who has a market value of around $12M - strictly my opinion.
    I was thinking the same thing. Gay's making $16.4M next season... I think of max-money players as guys making $20M+. I don't think the salary is that bad at all. I think he could do quite well with the Raptors, especially in DC's defensive system.

  7. #847
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    We already know Gay isn't a max money player.
    Right. You do. What about everyone else? We've seen this before many, many times. Looking into my crystal basketball I foresee dozens of Raptors fans looking at Gay's impact, looking at his salary and there by finding distaste in his game because the game doesn't match the salary. Salary is always a hot topic in here, like it or not. Salary changes perceptions of players, both good and bad.

    I mean one of the biggest ideas hammered home daily is: "let's get rid of such and such because we don't like the Raptors paying him." Or "I don't like such and such because he makes $10M. If he made $5M then I would have no problem with him."

    When a guy is making 30% of the cap number there are high expectations. I don't believe Gay can meet the expectations that most Raptors fans will expect at that price tag... And in general we're not a loyal bunch when times are tough.

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I hope everyone is aware that Gay is not a max player. While overpaid, he is not excessively overpaid. We are still talking about a guy who has a market value of around $12M - strictly my opinion.
    Matt, at $18M/yr he's not far off. You don't think $6M/yr over what you deem market value is excessive?

    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. Gay's making $16.4M next season... I think of max-money players as guys making $20M+. I don't think the salary is that bad at all. I think he could do quite well with the Raptors, especially in DC's defensive system.
    Right and the average of the three seasons after this one is $18M/yr(31% of the cap if it's at $58M). The Raptors aren't going to be paying him for 2011/12.

  8. #848
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Right. You do. What about everyone else? We've seen this before many, many times. Looking into my crystal basketball I foresee dozens of Raptors fans looking at Gay's impact, looking at his salary and there by finding distaste in his game because the game doesn't match the salary. Salary is always a hot topic in here, like it or not. Salary changes perceptions of players, both good and bad.

    I mean one of the biggest ideas hammered home daily is: "let's get rid of such and such because we don't like the Raptors paying him." Or "I don't like such and such because he makes $10M. If he made $5M then I would have no problem with him."

    When a guy is making 30% of the cap number there are high expectations. I don't believe Gay can meet the expectations that most Raptors fans will expect at that price tag... And in general we're not a loyal bunch when times are tough.



    Matt, at $18M/yr he's not far off. You don't think $6M/yr over what you deem market value is excessive?



    Right and the average of the three seasons after this one is $18M/yr(31% of the cap if it's at $58M). The Raptors aren't going to be paying him for 2011/12.

    That is at the end of the contract. I should have been more specific. Most contracts have raises - under old CBA 10% annual if I recall correct. Gay's contract would have started at $12M.

    Year 1: $12M
    Year 2: $13.2M
    Year 3: $14.5M
    Year 4: $16M
    Year 5: $17.6M


    3 through 5 are what matters now though.

  9. #849
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Apollo, you're absolutely right about fan perception. Regardless of salary and/or production, someone will find a way to complain about something. That's just the nature of the beast. But I don't think it should be factored into team-building decisions.

    At the end of the day, I'm fairly confident in saying that a team with Nash and Gay would be better than any past 4 years of Raptors basketball. That alone, might be enough to hinder the unrealistic expectations.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  10. #850
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    It's a bad salary, for sure. But I think it's a mistake to care.

    It's a cliche, but it's not your money. If the player fits a need and helps the team improve, I don't care how much he's making. The only issue I see with player salaries is if they affect the lockerroom -- player X makes more, but plays/produces less than player Y; player Y gets pissy. Then you have a problem. But if the team is winning, who cares how much the individuals are making, from a fan's standpoint?

    I wouldn't blink at taking on Gay's contract, because I think it immediately improves the team at a key position. That said, I'd still prefer Batum for 2/3 the price. But I understand the interest in Gay, since it's a move they can make prior to the draft and free agency and ticks off the #1 box for this off-season, allowing them to go hard after either Batum or Nash in July.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  11. #851
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    not really concerned about Rudy's contract now, its when he's done and in the middle of his prime when he wants that one last long term huge contract that i worry about.
    @jerboat

  12. #852
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Until he gets here, has some games under his belt and everyone sees he's not a max money player. What then?
    What then? Then, it will be excuse time. It will be okay cause our GM tried really hard and wasn't afraid to take a chance. You know, it's really hard to win in Toronto and get players to come here, so you have to swing for the fences. Besides: it's all MLSE's fault; you can't blame Colangelo for Gay not playing at a high level; building through the draft is no guarantee either; another GM could have done worse; our GM is still respected by "them".

    Really, the same excuses you've heard over the last 2 years....

  13. #853
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is at the end of the contract. I should have been more specific. Most contracts have raises - under old CBA 10% annual if I recall correct. Gay's contract would have started at $12M.

    Year 1: $12M
    Year 2: $13.2M
    Year 3: $14.5M
    Year 4: $16M
    Year 5: $17.6M


    3 through 5 are what matters now though.
    Matt, what does the past matter to the Raptors now?

    2012/13
    $16,460,532

    2013/14
    $17,888,932

    2014/15
    $19,317,326

    http://hoopshype.com/salaries/memphis.htm

    That's all the Raptors and we should be talking about.

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Apollo, you're absolutely right about fan perception. Regardless of salary and/or production, someone will find a way to complain about something. That's just the nature of the beast. But I don't think it should be factored into team-building decisions.
    No, it should because their hindsight vision will be properly calibrated. The problem is their foresight vision is malfunctioning.

  14. #854
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Matt, what does the past matter to the Raptors now?

    2012/13
    $16,460,532

    2013/14
    $17,888,932

    2014/15
    $19,317,326

    http://hoopshype.com/salaries/memphis.htm

    That's all the Raptors and we should be talking about.



    No, it should because their hindsight vision will be properly calibrated. The problem is their foresight vision is malfunctioning.
    Right. So he is not overpaid by $6M as you suggested. The $12M was a starting salary - a couple of million below max. In year 3-4-5 he is still paid a couple of million above market value but in his prime years. We are not talking Joe Johnson (i.e. past prime and ridiculously overpaid).

  15. #855
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Right. So he is not overpaid by $6M as you suggested. The $12M was a starting salary - a couple of million below max. In year 3-4-5 he is still paid a couple of million above market value but in his prime years. We are not talking Joe Johnson (i.e. past prime and ridiculously overpaid).
    His market value is whatever people would be willing to pay him today if he were a free agent. Do you feel someone would sign him today for $18M/yr on average?

  16. #856
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Right. You do. What about everyone else? We've seen this before many, many times. Looking into my crystal basketball I foresee dozens of Raptors fans looking at Gay's impact, looking at his salary and there by finding distaste in his game because the game doesn't match the salary. Salary is always a hot topic in here, like it or not. Salary changes perceptions of players, both good and bad.

    I mean one of the biggest ideas hammered home daily is: "let's get rid of such and such because we don't like the Raptors paying him." Or "I don't like such and such because he makes $10M. If he made $5M then I would have no problem with him."

    When a guy is making 30% of the cap number there are high expectations. I don't believe Gay can meet the expectations that most Raptors fans will expect at that price tag... And in general we're not a loyal bunch when times are tough.



    Matt, at $18M/yr he's not far off. You don't think $6M/yr over what you deem market value is excessive?



    Right and the average of the three seasons after this one is $18M/yr(31% of the cap if it's at $58M). The Raptors aren't going to be paying him for 2011/12.
    Apollo, it is three seasons. He's going to help everything on and off the court about the team. He's going to be the best all around player on the team.

    But, the best thing I can think of is that we aren't going through another Bosh era as long as Bryan is here. Also, Gay just seems smarter than Bosh. As well he has better work ethic than the current best player on team.

    A splash needs to be made here and I will guarantee that the 8th pick will not make one big enough. Look at all the guys we are waiting on now.

    Derozan and Johnson are heading into year four. Amir is heading into year 7. You seriously want to add another to the mix.

    Gay is a proven starter, we have 2 of those and we need at least 4. Gay or Iguodala for that matter are #3 if acquired.

  17. #857
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Apollo, it is three seasons. He's going to help everything on and off the court about the team. He's going to be the best all around player on the team.

    But, the best thing I can think of is that we aren't going through another Bosh era as long as Bryan is here. Also, Gay just seems smarter than Bosh. As well he has better work ethic than the current best player on team.

    A splash needs to be made here and I will guarantee that the 8th pick will not make one big enough. Look at all the guys we are waiting on now.

    Derozan and Johnson are heading into year four. Amir is heading into year 7. You seriously want to add another to the mix.

    Gay is a proven starter, we have 2 of those and we need at least 4. Gay or Iguodala for that matter are #3 if acquired.
    Rudy Gay was once a fourth year player. He was also selected 8th overall in a draft.

    If all this is merely about getting an impact wing for three years then wouldn't Iggy be more bang for your buck?(well, two years in this case) You wouldn't need to cough up a lotto pick and he would also be great next to Nash.

    Has it gotten so bad that the Raptors need to burn $18M/yr and a mid lotto pick for a "proven starter"?

  18. #858
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I would assume that the 8th pick would be in play for Iggy as well.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  19. #859
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I would not assume that. Iggy is not a real core piece going forward for them. Everyone knows it. His role has diminished year after year. In a time where cap space means a lot more than in the past, you'd be surprised what it takes to land Iggy in my opinion. Right now the 76ers are around $9M below cap. With Iggy out of the way they could be huge players in free agency.

  20. #860
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    According to the tv via espn it is and I'm fine with Iggy. Gay might be easier to get and might be a little better. But, hey buddy if you are thinking Iguodala count me in.

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