View Poll Results: Who should be #1 on the Raptors' list to sign?

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  • Nash

    13 33.33%
  • Batum

    15 38.46%
  • Mayo

    2 5.13%
  • Lin

    2 5.13%
  • Lee

    1 2.56%
  • Fields

    4 10.26%
  • Hinrich

    1 2.56%
  • Kidd

    0 0%
  • L.Williams

    0 0%
  • Green

    1 2.56%
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Thread: Free Agency 2012

  1. #881
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What prospect at #8 is better than Gay right now and what prospect is guaranteed to ever put up 20 points per game?

    What free agent is available that is better than Rudy Gay?

    What free agent is available this year that is a definite to sign with a team that has been one of the jokes of the league the last 4 years?

    What impact free agent is available that the Raptors would not have to grossly over pay for?

    By the Raptors 'wasting' 2 assets to get Gay they save 2 other assets in the TPE and MLE. Those two assets could also yield impact veterans - and maybe another lottery pick if rumours are true.


    I'm talking total crazy here now but here I go:
    What if Toronto acquired Gay/25. Acquired Ariza and #10. Traded DeMar/25/37/56 to Phoenix for #13. What if Toronto traded Ariza/10/13 to Sacramento for Garcia/5? Probably not possible but just an illustration of the flexibility Toronto still has even if trading for Gay.


    Acquiring Gay hardly handcuffs the Raptors. If Gay brought the Raptors to the luxury tax, then yes, I would most definitely be questioning the wisdom. But he doesn't. He takes the Raptors to the soft cap leaving them with $12M in room before hitting the luxury tax.
    Nicely done sir. +

  2. #882
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    I'm down for Rudy Gay. It's not like anyone significant will want to sign in Toronto.

    He's also a borderline all-star, with potential to get better. He's 25, he's long, he's athletic, he's good defensively, he's clutch, he can post, he can shoot, he can create his own shot, he can play inside or out. There's not a lot he can't do.

    His problem is he's too passive. In my eyes, what separates Carmelo from Rudy Gay is the swagger, where Melo believes I'm the shit and wants to stand out while Rudy Gay seems more content on blending in with the team and disappears for stretches. If he ever adapts that mentality, I see a definite all-star.

    Maybe Memphis trading him could prove to be the best thing that happened to him, after signing the max contract. If I were him, I'd be pissed knowing that I'm the odd man out from a Western contender (somewhat). That Memphis team is way too balanced and they like to play inside-out, starting from their post -- which is arguably their strength, so I really don't blame them.

    It then becomes an issue of not enough balance, since Rudy's strength is not in his ability to spot up.

    Toronto would be an opportunity for him to establish himself as an all-star type player, which his contract warrants. Bargnani has the ability to stretch the floor, allowing Rudy to work in the high post area (his #1 strength)
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  3. #883
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    So Gay has proven to be a difference maker? His time in Memphis doesn't settle that.
    He is the starting sf on a playoff team.

    We dont even have a starting sf.

  4. #884
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What prospect at #8 is better than Gay right now and what prospect is guaranteed to ever put up 20 points per game?
    This isn't a 100m dash Matt.


    • Is Gay a proven leader?
    • How's his team done with and without him in the playoffs?


    These two are fair questions given the financial commitment.

  5. #885
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    This isn't a 100m dash Matt.


    • Is Gay a proven leader?
    • How's his team done with and without him in the playoffs?


    These two are fair questions given the financial commitment.
    Fair questions.

    What rookie is coming in and leading though? I'd rather take the known talent and look for a player leader elsewhere. Luckily the Raps have a great leader on the sidelines already - something the team has not had.... possibly ever.

    The playoff record is a fair point. It is a team game though. Randolph was far from 100% and Mayo shot 18% fg and 9% 3pt over last 5 games of series.

  6. #886
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i think big val and casey are good for leadership roles.
    @jerboat

  7. #887
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What rookie is coming in and leading though? I'd rather take the known talent and look for a player leader elsewhere. Luckily the Raps have a great leader on the sidelines already - something the team has not had.... possibly ever.
    If want to go down this road then I'm sure you'd be in favor for dealing all the core on this team for vets, right? Because right now is what's important?

    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    i think big val and casey are good for leadership roles.
    I think the guy making $18M/yr needs to be able to lead and make a major impact in the playoffs. Otherwise why the hell are you paying him $18M/yr? Lots of guys can get you 20PPG if you want to give them shot volume. Mike James scored 20 PPG. Maybe they should bring him back and go the thrifty route to instant gratification?

  8. #888
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    If want to go down this road then I'm sure you'd be in favor for dealing all the core on this team for vets, right? Because right now is what's important?
    If you are talking about pulling a Celtic makeover with 32+ year olds coming in - then no. Not in favour.

    If you are talking 25/26 year old proven NBA talent - then sure. Ed Davis is 23 and DeMar is 23 and neither is a bonafide starter yet.

  9. #889
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think the guy making $18M/yr needs to be able to lead and make a major impact in the playoffs. Otherwise why the hell are you paying him $18M/yr? Lots of guys can get you 20PPG if you want to give them shot volume. Mike James scored 20 PPG. Maybe they should bring him back and go the thrifty route to instant gratification?
    I've been hearing a lot from fans about not going after Gay because of his contract and because he can help the Raptors make the playoffs (but not contend for a championship), thus getting them into mediocrity which is NBA purgatory.

    Here is my argument (and sorry for my novel).

    Rudy Gay is actually still very young. He is turning 26 in August and is in his prime years. Arguably he is the 5th best SF in the entire league, behind James, Durant, Pierce and Anthony (where Pierce is on the decline and is nearing retirement). He is not a super-star in the ilk of James or Durant, but both those guys are once in a lifetime type of players (and at least 3-4 years of patience to let them develop into those stars). In order to get those you need to hit the lottery when the jackpot was at $100M, not $1M. Gay provides more than just scoring over 20ppg (which is why people like Bargnani by the way). Gay can also rebound, is very athletic, and can be clutch. His defense is not a liability and can improve under the right coaching (like Casey's). Since he's still young, he has a few years still to develop his skill set, and may need a different environment with less pressure to succeed (Toronto is in the weaker Eastern conference, where travel is not as big of an issue as it would be out West). Plus Gay was raised in the East coast (he's originally from Baltimore) so being closer to his home town may actually help his game more. With regards to playoffs.. some guys have bad games. Even Wade has had some horrible games this year. Gay has never really been in a position to succeed because of the conference he is in, and his team. This season was the first time he played in the playoffs and still averaged 19ppg and about 6.5rpg. I'd want my SF to put those kinds of stats in a PF game.

    Toronto has had a very difficult time luring in free agents unless they are past their prime and/or command a lot of money. Even if they complete their rebuild properly (by just accumulating assets like draft picks) are they ever going to be in a situation where they can get a good free agent, or will they end up looking like Sacramento or Minnesota - who still can't make the playoffs even with Rubio/Love and Adleman. This is like lightening in a bottle where we can actually get a young star from another team for very little in return (it's like the Carter trade in reverse - okay maybe not that good, but would be close).

    With regards to his salary, the advantage Toronto has is that they don't have any max players. So they can afford Gay and still get other pieces (as good as Batum, Nash, or other free agents commanding $10-$12M a year). Being young he would be a tremendous asset to have in his 2nd or 3rd year (4th and 5th years of his contract) so they can move him for better assets than we would have to give up to the get him (since we would not have to be concerned about being a luxury team since our owner is arguably the richest in the league). Getting Gay would not mean that he is the last piece that we would acquire. We can still get other pieces like a shooter, or a PG, or a backup center, etc. Gay would fill a huge hole that we've had since Carter in his prime years.

    With regards to being medicore.. I don't quite see it. If we traded for Iggy then that makes no sense since he's 28/29 and on the decline. That's also why I didn't want a guy like Tyson Chandler who I don't think would be a good fit due to his age - and even he is making $14M per year (if I remember you wanted him here). But Gay is still young and has lots to prove. We may make the playoffs or be a 9th/10th seed instead of where we ended up this year, but I've heard that the draft is going to be pretty bad next year, and there is a lot of talk of moving the draft age requirement - further causing future drafts to be weak.

    Does it make sense for us to continue to look for draft picks, and try to win the $100M jackpot each year, or do we go with a proven guy that could help in attracting other free agents or guys that want to win, especially in a weaker conference? Plus there is a chance that we could even keep our pick this year and still get Gay.

    If we fall out of the lottery and exit after the first round in 4/5 games, then there is still a lot of hope because a majority of the team would still be young and/or we'd have legitimate assets we could move easily for other assets (like a Bargnani, DeRozan, or whoever we get besides Gay this year). Plus we'd get good experience. The young guys on the team would learn to play playoff basketball, and our team may start looking attractive to other free agents who can see potential) since winners are far more attractive than losers (for example, David West deciding to go to Indiana of all places as a FA), as the key would be that we'd finally have a young guy in our core that is a legitimate core player.

    Worst case scenario would be that we suck with Gay. Boston sucked with Pierce, and then they got Garnett and Allen. One year later they were champions. If Gay was our Pierce.. we could go big and trade some of our young guys for proven vets like an Allen and Garnett and contend. That dream would not be possible unless we had a player like Pierce on the team. And if we don't trade for Gay then we would be still missing our Pierce.

    I honestly believe that our team would be in a better position to contend for a championship if we had a guy like Gay on the team than if we didn't despite what he makes in salary.

  10. #890
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Something I can't wrap my head around is that we refused to pay top dollar to a non-alpha type/complimentary type player 3 seasons ago, but most are on board to acquire one - who gets paid pretty handsomely, I might add. It all seems a bit, well, odd.

  11. #891
    Raptors Republic Rookie Jon_Wade's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Something I can't wrap my head around is that we refused to pay top dollar to a non-alpha type/complimentary type player 3 seasons ago, but most are on board to acquire one - who gets paid pretty handsomely, I might add. It all seems a bit, well, odd.


    IMO it's that it is much, much easier to find a more than solid power forward than a small forward and at the end of a game it's much easier for Rudy to make his own shot than Chris
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  12. #892
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Something I can't wrap my head around is that we refused to pay top dollar to a non-alpha type/complimentary type player 3 seasons ago, but most are on board to acquire one - who gets paid pretty handsomely, I might add. It all seems a bit, well, odd.
    Alot of things change in three years.

    Bosh was to make more than Gay.

    The main thing is we didn't want to pay top dollar three seasons ago amd three seasons later we realuze we have to.

  13. #893
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Jon_Wade wrote: View Post
    IMO it's that it is much, much easier to find a more than solid power forward than a small forward and at the end of a game it's much easier for Rudy to make his own shot than Chris
    +1

    It's hard to equate an athletic wing player, with a finesse power forward.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  14. #894
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    See there was a time not too long ago where Raptors fans would have said it was much, much easier to find a solid wing than a solid big man but now that SF is the weak spot instead of C or PF, we're not going to say that SF is a more difficult spot to fill. I'll respectfully disagree. It's a Raptors weakness but that doesn't mean the spot is that tough to fill with a quality player.

  15. #895
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I've just decided to change my stance. I'm not a big fan of moving the pick in a trade for Gay but if it happens I'll support it and hope for the best. Fingers crossed on the Raptors nailing down the pick in any wing upgrade trade.

  16. #896
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    See there was a time not too long ago where Raptors fans would have said it was much, much easier to find a solid wing than a solid big man but now that SF is the weak spot instead of C or PF, we're not going to say that SF is a more difficult spot to fill. I'll respectfully disagree. It's a Raptors weakness but that doesn't mean the spot is that tough to fill with a quality player.
    It's not difficult to find an athletic wing. But, for the raps it's been tough to find a good wing.

    The last one we had was who? Jalen Rose maybe. Probably t-mac.

  17. #897
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Sorry just remembered Marion.

    You know we wouldn't be in this situation if we had of kept Marion. But, can't dwell on the past, I guess. Can't change it anyways...

    seeing as my time machine is broken.

  18. #898
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    It's not difficult to find an athletic wing. But, for the raps it's been tough to find a good wing.

    The last one we had was who? Jalen Rose maybe. Probably t-mac.
    Jalen Rose had a bigger impact in Toronto than T-Mac in my opinion. After J left they had Jorge Garbajosa who was as solid as they come: tough as nails, strong defender, one of the smartest guys on the court, could knock down shots, rebounder, dived for loose balls, took charges no matter the violent impact coming his way and he was a strong leader. Jorge actually in my opinion is one of the most underrated players in Raptors history and arguably the most effective SF we've ever seen here.

  19. #899
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Jalen Rose had a bigger impact in Toronto than T-Mac in my opinion. After J left they had Jorge Garbajosa who was as solid as they come: tough as nails, strong defender, one of the smartest guys on the court, could knock down shots, rebounder, dived for loose balls, took charges no matter the violent impact coming his way and he was a strong leader. Jorge actually in my opinion is one of the most underrated players in Raptors history and arguably the most effective SF we've ever seen here.
    loved watching him shoot from behind his head. too bad about the leg and his love for spain

  20. #900
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    We go moe harkless, miller time or PJ3

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