Free Agency 2012

[minks77]

No way Ilyasova is sf on defense and why would we want another pf? we have bargs, amir, davis, acy. This make no sence unless BC is going to do a trade for a sf involving two of our pfs

I'm a big Illy fan and though he's a questionable man to man defender at the three he's a very good help defender and doesn't mind mucking it up and banging with the big boys. In Caseys zone heavy defence I think he'd be fine at the 3. He's light years ahead of Fields at getting buckets and rebounds better too. His biggest question mark is consistency but in comparison to Landry his top side is much higher. I'd rather have EI than LK, Special Ed or either Johnson, he's just more productive than any of these other guys.

[DoNDaDDa]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...Sign_And_Trade

I don't think that Knicks can and want to offer as much money as Raptors offered - everybody knows it, but he's still waiting. That may be the sign that we should start looking to plan B or plan C(alderon) and fill other holes in our lineup. Looks like Nash wants to compete for the championship not only playoffs.

if a championship is what he wants he wont get that in NY.. he wont even see the ball much with Melo hogging it all the time...Nash said hed look through rosters & that a fit on the court was very important to him... theres no fit in NY for Nash..unless hes happy being cornor 3ball Nash..

[Bendit]

I didn't say anything about Houston having a large Asian - or Chinese population for that matter -although it doesn't hurt that he's of Asian heritage. Lin had a lot of hype surrounding him last year and I would expect him to ride it into this season.

I apologize, I just assumed you meant that I suppose because I cant come to grips with the notion that Lin can attract the typical ticket buyer because of a dazzling display of bb. He does/did a few things well but very few individual players actually adds to an attendance...Nash is one.

Toronto did attract many new attendees to the games here that he played in but I gather the vast majority were of Chinese background which of course is understandable...and hence my original assumption of your post.

[charlz]

And I suppose somehow you expect all of our other options at PG are better at defense? Calderon is the longest serving raptor, he is a leader, he puts up an ELITE ast/to ratio. What are the salary difficulties with keeping Calderon, while also grabbing Dragic for the future?

Calderon - this is my evaluation based on NBA standards

running an offense 8/10
shot 7/10
transition offense 7/10
dribble penetration 4/10
ability to create his own show 2/10
draws double team 1/10
defends his own position 2/10
help defense 4/10 (he understands where to go but cant get there very quickly and when he does... well whatever).

If this team is going to hang its hat on playing defense he can't stay.

[Miekenstien]

I apologize, I just assumed you meant that I suppose because I cant come to grips with the notion that Lin can attract the typical ticket buyer because of a dazzling display of bb. He does/did a few things well but very few individual players actually adds to an attendance...Nash is one.

Toronto did attract many new attendees to the games here that he played in but I gather the vast majority were of Chinese background which of course is understandable...and hence my original assumption of your post.

more than tickets lin is a gateway to chinese tv markets

[NoBan]

You should really look at some stats and facts before making erroneous claims on Fields.

Fields per 48 mins (last season): 14.7 PTS, 7.0 REB, 4.3 AST, 0.4 BLK, 2.0 STL, 2.5 PF, 2.6 TO. With at 12.0 PER

Gary Forbes per 48 mins (last season): 21.5 PTS. 6.9 REB, 3.6 AST. 0.4 BLK, 1.6 STL, 3.8 PF, 3.6 TO. With at 12.4 PER.

Fields 2012 playoffs: 4.8 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 1.3 APG, and 11.0 PER

[Miekenstien]

Fields per 48 mins (last season): 14.7 PTS, 7.0 REB, 4.3 AST, 0.4 BLK, 2.0 STL, 2.5 PF, 2.6 TO. With at 12.0 PER

Gary Forbes per 48 mins (last season): 21.5 PTS. 6.9 REB, 3.6 AST. 0.4 BLK, 1.6 STL, 3.8 PF, 3.6 TO. With at 12.4 PER.

Fields 2012 playoffs: 4.8 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 1.3 APG, and 11.0 PER

forbes gets garbage minutes. check out alabis per 48. compare fields to a few starting sf in the league

[Raptor_11]

Fields played for a playoff team, played more minutes, and played in the dumb Carmelo offense. His rookie numbers are more reflective of his game

[Bendit]

more than tickets lin is a gateway to chinese tv markets

Absolutely including merchandise. And if Houston gets him there will surely be a Yao Ming connection/bridge there.

[Letter N]

An Asian American kid that's young, makes highlight plays and isn't much taller than the average person. He's like a marketers wet dream.

I think it was Forbes that said he's a $500 million empire. And when you realize how Yao and McGrady (just through affiliation) were two of the top selling jersey's in the league, and voted into every AS game, for close to 10 years it's not hard to understand why team's want him.

[geo]

nash>calderon>lowry>dragic>lin

[NoBan]

This message board is out of it's mind. Every critical response is met by an avalanche of excuses from fanboys/homers . Landry Fields sucks. No other team would offer him $20 million, simple as that. Having Nash/Fields at $55 million for 3 seasons is a horrible deal. That's max money for a 40 year old and a bench guy.

[thead]

This message board is out of it's mind. Every critical response is met by an avalanche of excuses from fanboys/homers . Landry Fields sucks. No other team would offer him $20 million, simple as that. Having Nash/Fields at $55 million for 3 seasons is a horrible deal. That's max money for a 40 year old and a bench guy.

The problem we have with you is your manufactured facts. You create the fact you want and then argue your opinion, instead of letting the facts dictate your opinion.

Landry Fields is a mild over pay...I suspect we are paying about 3 - 4 million more than he is worth over the life of his contract. In his third year it gives us either a 9 million dollar expiring trade chip...a very solid wing guy we go forward with and at the worst....9 million comes off our books at the end of that season

Steve Nash is a mild over pay....At 38 I don't suspect he would deteriorate that quickly. But he is likely worth 27 - 30 million over three years. 12 is an over pay but again. After he generously donates three years of leadership/development and wins to the Raptors. He comes off the books.

Amir Johnson & Bargnani also come off the books then. If you haven't noticed yet. The play is for accelerated development over the next 3 years - re-evaluate what we have then (40 million comes off the books if all four players are signed and kept until that point) and move forward accordingly.

I would not be surprised if we over pay at least one more veteran (Grant Hill) on a 3 year deal.

now to your adjusted 48 minutes thing. It doesn't take into account when those minutes were played who they were played against....i.e. garbage time(Forbes) vs defending starters(Fields)

As someone said Alabi's per 48 minutes is a perfect example of this...which I will now post.

19.2 ppg 27.2 rebounds 5 blocks <---------perennial all star and HOF numbers for sure.

Stats can say whatever you want them to. So it's CRITICAL you look at more than the ones that support your pre-existing opinion. Rather read a bunch...read reviews, read scouting reports, read opinions counter to your own and for a SPLIT second consider what if I'm wrong? Even if you land back on your original opinion...the more experienced posters here would likely stop savaging your every post.

If you looked just at stats....Landry Fields was a garbage signing. HOWEVER if you have the context of a superstar egomaniac black hole no defense playing coach killing Carmelo Anthony, a change in system. You would be better off examining how he played with a pass first PG. I.E. his Rookie stats and time without Melo are more indicative of who he will be.

[Raptor_11]

Teams always overpay guys to get what they want, it's not only the Raptors. And Landry Fields is a solid player..

[Raptor_11]

The problem we have with you is your manufactured facts. You create the fact you want and then argue your opinion, instead of letting the facts dictate your opinion.

Landry Fields is a mild over pay...I suspect we are paying about 3 - 4 million more than he is worth over the life of his contract. In his third year it gives us either a 9 million dollar expiring trade chip...a very solid wing guy we go forward with and at the worst....9 million comes off our books at the end of that season

Steve Nash is a mild over pay....At 38 I don't suspect he would deteriorate that quickly. But he is likely worth 27 - 30 million over three years. 12 is an over pay but again. After he generously donates three years of leadership/development and wins to the Raptors. He comes off the books.

Amir Johnson & Bargnani also come off the books then. If you haven't noticed yet. The play is for accelerated development over the next 3 years - re-evaluate what we have then (40 million comes off the books if all four players are signed and kept until that point) and move forward accordingly.

I would not be surprised if we over pay at least one more veteran (Grant Hill) on a 3 year deal.

now to your adjusted 48 minutes thing. It doesn't take into account when those minutes were played who they were played against....i.e. garbage time(Forbes) vs defending starters(Fields)

As someone said Alabi's per 48 minutes is a perfect example of this...which I will now post.

19.2 ppg 27.2 rebounds 5 blocks <---------perennial all star and HOF numbers for sure.

Stats can say whatever you want them to. So it's CRITICAL you look at more than the ones that support your pre-existing opinion. Rather read a bunch...read reviews, read scouting reports, read opinions counter to your own and for a SPLIT second consider what if I'm wrong? Even if you land back on your original opinion...the more experienced posters here would like stop savaging your every post.

If you looked just at stats....Landry Fields was a garbage signing. HOWEVER if you have the context of a superstar egomaniac black hole no defense playing coach killing Carmelo Anthony, a change in system. You would be better off examining how he played with a pass first PG. I.E. his Rookie stats and time without Melo are more indicative of who he will be.

Thank you

[minks77]

Fields per 48 mins (last season): 14.7 PTS, 7.0 REB, 4.3 AST, 0.4 BLK, 2.0 STL, 2.5 PF, 2.6 TO. With at 12.0 PER

Gary Forbes per 48 mins (last season): 21.5 PTS. 6.9 REB, 3.6 AST. 0.4 BLK, 1.6 STL, 3.8 PF, 3.6 TO. With at 12.4 PER.

Fields 2012 playoffs: 4.8 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 1.3 APG, and 11.0 PER

Classic example of why stats are so misleading when read in a vacuum. Gary Forbes is a borderline NBA player, you know it, I know it and Gary knows it.

[Balls of Steel]

This message board is out of it's mind. Every critical response is met by an avalanche of excuses from fanboys/homers . Landry Fields sucks. No other team would offer him $20 million, simple as that. Having Nash/Fields at $55 million for 3 seasons is a horrible deal. That's max money for a 40 year old and a bench guy.

I'm not falling for this one.

[Matt52]

Fields per 48 mins (last season): 14.7 PTS, 7.0 REB, 4.3 AST, 0.4 BLK, 2.0 STL, 2.5 PF, 2.6 TO. With at 12.0 PER

Gary Forbes per 48 mins (last season): 21.5 PTS. 6.9 REB, 3.6 AST. 0.4 BLK, 1.6 STL, 3.8 PF, 3.6 TO. With at 12.4 PER.

Fields 2012 playoffs: 4.8 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 1.3 APG, and 11.0 PER

You said he was 10th man.

According to our good friend Liston, he played 2nd most number of minutes of any knick last year.

That does not meet the generally accepted criteria of 10th man in the NBA.

[Miekenstien]

19.2 ppg 27.2 rebounds 5 blocks

fucking alabi. i knew it was gonna be decent but that is incredible.

[thead]

We should start considering a trade for Lowry or signing Dragic...the longer this drags on, the more likely we are to get nothing