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Starting C in 2012-13

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  • #16
    I think Jonas will be starting from day one, but if he isn't ready then Amir can fill in, he may be undersized but he has done well so far. The thing with Jonas is that the parts of his game that will translate well, rebounding and pick and roll, will allow him to be productive from day one. If it is true that his current team plays the same sort of defense that we play, then I see no reason he can't start. It's true he will likely still be a little weak to match up against the Bynums and Howards of the league, but according to Draft Express he is up to 240 lbs, which is not bad at all for a center. I think the big issue will be fouls, but that is something most bigs deal with early in their careers.

    The last thing this team needs is more cap spent on bigs. We are already looking at having to trade Davis because there aren't enough minutes and I think looking for a good 2 or 3 is our best bet.
    "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

    -Churchill

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    • #17
      Nilanka wrote: View Post
      If there is actual interest in Asik, that instantly makes 2 of Amir/Davis/Bargnani expendable. I don't see the point in having any more than 3 bigs capable of playing 30 mpg. Our 4th big should be a 14th/15th man (like Gray, Magloire, or Alabi).

      My ideal scenario is to have your starting PF, and your starting C playing 35mpg, and your backup big playing both positions at 25 mpg. The 4th big is reserved for garbage time only.
      I'm on board with 3 rotation bigs, 2 situational guy's. If Bargnani plays 36 next year, and JV 30... that leaves 30 minutes left. Cut that by 2 - 4 minutes to play small, cut that by another 2 - 4 for a bruiser and you have 22 - 30 minutes left for the 3rd big. Whether that 4th big barely plays, or play's often, we need an experienced guy in that role to help us develop some of the young pieces.

      If we had a stronger team culture, played in a big basketball market, had veterans, a humble MVP, and were a 60 win team competing for championships, we could stockpile bigs like Chicago without destroying chemistry... but even then, Asik and Gibson are going to look to bolt Chicago first chance they get for some minutes.

      Why would somebody want not one, but two good players sitting on the bench when PG - SF, we are the worst team in the league?

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      • #18
        Nilanka wrote: View Post
        Players appreciate a known pecking order. At some point, you have to stop "trying out" players, and actually establish a set rotation (with clearly defined minutes). Having 4 guys competing for 2 starting spots doesn't make sense to me, especially if all 4 guys are capable of starting.

        Sure, when everything's working, we look like a deep team. But NBA players have inflated egos, and 1 of those 4 players won't be a happy camper playing spot minutes.
        The inflated ego seems to be a disease which is indeed quite common in the nba. Nevertheless, I don't think that has to be a problem with a good coach and getting the right guys. If you have a 4 man big rotation it isn't necessary to play one of the 4 only a few minutes as there is nothing wrong with having all 4 of them play at least 20 minutes on average (or thereabout). The problem usually is that there is a significant drop-off in talent.

        Of course there can be chemistry problems, but there are always risks.

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        • #19
          Maleko wrote: View Post
          Or the Raptors with Bargnani out...
          Can't expect me to think of the Raptors now can you? Who even follows that team?

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          • #20
            Nilanka wrote: View Post
            Definitely start Valanciunas from day 1. Prized rookies don't need to be approached delicately. Valanciunas is a gamer, and has been playing against grown men for years. He'll struggle at times (like all rookies do), but he'll be just fine in the starter's role.

            Save our cap space for a free agent SG/SF.
            I agree, even if you bring him off the bench to start behind Amir or whoever, don't waste valuable cap space on this position.

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            • #21
              The starting center on our team will be someone who is already currently on the roster. Isn't that why we were so happy about all the short contracts BC used to sign the likes of Gray, Magloire, Butler, Forbes? The whole point of those contracts was so that when the deals are done, those players can make way for JV. It'll most likely be Amir Johnson and bit of Ed Davis if he can improve a bit this year, with one of them getting traded as soon as JV is ready to start.
              your pal,
              ebrian

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              • #22
                Well, if the Raptors get that #2 pick in the draft, it very well could be Andre Drummond playing the 5 next season.

                But if they don't, just use Amir. He's been doing a very solid job this season to date.

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                • #23
                  MangoKid wrote: View Post
                  Well, if the Raptors get that #2 pick in the draft, it very well could be Andre Drummond playing the 5 next season.

                  But if they don't, just use Amir. He's been doing a very solid job this season to date.
                  If we end up with Drummond, would be interesting to see what happens with the rest of our front court. You would think one (or two) of Valanciunas, Bargnani, Davis or Amir would have to go.

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                  • #24
                    Starting center is JV no question and his minutes will be based on foul trouble, match ups and his overall effect on the game or lack there of. Him and Dre starting with Davis and Amir off the bench. Wouldn't be surprised to see Davis moved if JV is the real deal. I'd look to re-up Gray for a big body (for D12, Bynum type match ups) and Maglore for locker room presence/leadership. Unless we have a shot at Drummond or Davis I don't see any reason to look at others bigs as the one's we have are fine. I'd focus more on the SF position with cap space.

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                    • #25
                      If you can rip Asik from the bulls I throw cash at him 5-6mill a season. Hes what we hope JV could become.
                      I also think Javalle has a lot of potential and is in a bad system in washington.

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                      • #26
                        b2kelly wrote: View Post
                        If you can rip Asik from the bulls I throw cash at him 5-6mill a season. Hes what we hope JV could become.
                        I also think Javalle has a lot of potential and is in a bad system in washington.
                        Lol If you want JV to become Omar Asik than you must really have some low expectations. Asik is a good backup and decent starter, JV IMO will be way better than Asik by a landslide. I'm talking top 5 C in the league, lol Omar Asik hahaha

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                        • #27
                          Asik is a decent depth player, but we'd already have Amir, Davis, Bargnani, Valanciunas and if the draft pick yields either Anthony Davis, Sullinger or Drummond, where would Asik fit in? And at 5-6 million?

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                          • #28
                            And McGee is a knucklehead. He's a good talent, but as another poster put it, for every positive thing he does on the court, he does something negative.

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                            • #29
                              I expect JV to log heavy minutes next season, regardless of whether or not he is the starter.

                              The one player on the free agency list that I think would be the ideal mentor for JV, would be Camby. I'm assuming Camby will get lots of interest, but his unselfish defense/rebounding-first mentality and his role as defensive anchor, would be the ideal type of player for JV to learn from and mimic. If the Raps could get Camby on a 1-year deal for $5M or less, knowing he is expected to be the backup/mentor for JV, it could be extremely beneficial for JV and the Raptors in the long run.

                              That would leave Bargnani and either Davis/Amir as the PF, with the other of Amir/Davis being used as trade bait to acquire another draft pick.

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                              • #30
                                MangoKid wrote: View Post
                                Well, if the Raptors get that #2 pick in the draft, it very well could be Andre Drummond playing the 5 next season.

                                But if they don't, just use Amir. He's been doing a very solid job this season to date.
                                My suspicion is that if it's not Davis at #1, the Raps will be taking a perimeter player somehow, someway. My understanding (and I don't follow NCAA ball at all) is that Davis is alone in the first tier with Drummond and others in a second tier. They've already got JV as their future 5 and a bevy of PFs.

                                More interesting would be if the Raps got the #1 pick cause that would basically mean moving Bargs and maybe even Ed Davis.

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