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Thread: Makes Sense for Both Teams

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Hellgate's Avatar
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    Default Makes Sense for Both Teams

    I've been over it and over it checking out the position needs, the contracts, talent level including prosects,and the win loss records of every team in the league. T.O has the best chance at pulling this off.
    While I know it sounds far fetched and it's probably something knowones considered. This trade:

    Toronto-
    Hedo Turkoglu
    Jose Calderon
    Demar Derozan
    1st Round pick (maybe)

    Miami-
    Dwayne Wade

    If Miami made this trade they give up there superstar and still be as Competitive as they are right now if not more.
    They have a good PF with Beasly who will most likely turn into an all star. J.O is still a solid center both those guys would excel with the play making that comes with Hedo and Jose Also they would have a SG (Derozan) with a ton of potential for the future. Plus this summer with all the expiring contracts they would still have the cap space to sign a guy like Joe Johnson, yet another smart spot up guy who would benefit from playing with two great play makers. Calderon is great in a half court set and that's what Miami likes to run for the most part.
    Wade would work in T.O for obvious reasons. I'm sure if Bosh and Wade could be on a team together it might as well be in Toronto.
    Colangelo could sign them both to long term deals and have one of the best cores in the league.
    Most of all both teams could feel good that they didn't send good players to losing teams essensially screwing them over. Win Win
    There is a hand full of teams I can see that could pull off a fair trade for Wade. However there playoff bound teams that would have to blow up their core and hope everything works out. This trade would be good for everyone, players, owners, teams ect.
    On the other hand I could just be a hopeful and bias Raps fan.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Babyface_killah's Avatar
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    What ever herb you're smoking please pass that on. Why would Miami trade for two pretty bad long term contracts for 2 player close to 30, also a late-first round (If we added wade = automatic playoff contender), and DDR (who develop into nice player but not wade nice). And I haven't even got to the craziest part is why would Miami trade Dwayne Wade at all and for anything less than a all-star.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Hellgate's Avatar
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    As crazy as it sounds. Miami has the same dilemma with Wade as the Raps do with Bosh. After this season they could loose Wade if they can't sign the right players. It's all a big risk.
    While I think there's a good chance all the big FA's this summer are going to sign back with the teams their on right now. Miami could assure themselves that they will stay compeditive regardless of what happends and keep developing and building around Beasley who they love. It would't be rebuiling mode for them not with a couple unselfish play makers to compliment there better players. And ya another way to go for Miami would be to try and sign Lebron or Bosh in the summer but it's not a sure thing.
    They got like two players signed past this year. If they can't sign some great players they're screwed.
    Besides Beasley, Hedo and Jose are better than anybody else on their roster.
    And better team players than anyone on their roster.
    Are they as good as Wade not even close. At least this trade would give them some balance. And some pieces to keep them decent going into the future.
    Although Miami like the Raptors are one of the worst managed teams in the history of the league.
    So what ever they do it's going to be for the short term and they'll be in the same position next year and the year after and so on.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Hellgate's Avatar
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    Another thing have you heard some of the crap ass trade scenarios have been rumoured for Bosh. I'm pretty generous with this trade.

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    lol.

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    Originally refreshing to have a reverse trade scenario from all the CB trade rumors, so props to that. while at it with bosh and wade, bron might be attracting to join as will to complete the finish piece of the big three!! hah

    As for reality, there's no way as long as Pat Riley is there that he would let Wade go. I don't think i really need to go into details with this one for back up this statement. As much as i would like for wade to play in T.O.

    Otherwise, as i posted earlier and now with a source from Doc. that Caron butler is of interest for Calderon, i'm a little tarn now with the way the Spaniard is playing, but Tough Juice is hard to pass on...

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    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    i think one thing that's being overlooked here (beside the fact that miami is as likely to trade wade as cleveland is lebron) is that miami is a MUCH MORE attractive destination for FA's than is TO; i really don't get the impression that miami feels they have to make a move to acquire talent, when they know that 95% of FA's that hit the market probably put Miami at the top of their list....it's part lifestyle, part weather, part taxes...but a part is also playing with wade. while all the non-wade attributes of miami that make it a top choice for FA's are great, with wade, they'll likely have a greater shot at signing a big FA with wade than they would without him.

    oh, and i can see a team taking on jose - he's actually decent value for the money. but hedo? uh, no. no. if anything, his inclusion in this package would make riley's nutsack shrink into his stomach. right now, he's toxic.

    finally, with wade's recent comments that he would not consider taking less than the max (basically, the idea posited to him was that each of he, bosh & lebron take less than the max so they could play together), he basically laughed off the idea as ludicrous - he even brought up the 'i have 2 kids to feed' BS (i guess $100M doesn't go as far as it used to). as such, i really (REALLY REALLY REALLY) don't think wade is leaving miami...i can't see him giving up the southbeach lifestyle, weather, tax situation & chance for max money to sign elsewhere.

    PS - if by some miracle that deal were to go down...wade would 100% demand that TO work a sign & trade. bosh is a good player, but dwayne fucking wade ain't gonna change his life to play with him.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Hellgate wrote: View Post
    As crazy as it sounds. Miami has the same dilemma with Wade as the Raps do with Bosh. After this season they could loose Wade if they can't sign the right players. It's all a big risk.
    Hellgate, D-Wade has all but guaranteed he's coming back. They've also proven they're willing to do what it takes to win and more importantly they're capable of making the right moves to win. As proof he has a ring on his finger. Consider it his wedding ring from the Heat because he's not going anywhere.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Hellgate's Avatar
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    Yertu damkule, what are you talking about when you say 95% of free agents sign with Miami. WHO! they never land free agents ever. The one's they do are shit players. Who are all over paid and over rated. Since that Championship year what good FA's have they signed.
    Acually Miami dispite the weather has got to be one of the worst places to play. They treat their players like shit and unless your their star player your always on the trade block.
    And Apollo besides the year they traded for Shaq which is ancient history already, when have the heat ever made the right moves. For many many years before 05 and all the years after they have been an average and sometime terrible team, which is how they were able to draft beasly #2. And you can't use injuries as an excuse.
    Even if this trade is just a pipe dream, Apollo you have to addmit it would make for a great story.
    Just what the Raps would need to get noticed.
    Last edited by Hellgate; Tue Jan 19th, 2010 at 11:22 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star brothersteve's Avatar
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    There would be riots in Miami.
    Unless Wade says trade me, I'm leaving. Miami's ownership would never approve this.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie Raśl's Avatar
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    It's not realistic, that will never happen, but...
    Acctually, I wouldn't do it because Wade won't re-sign with the raptors next season and we're loosing three startes (our best PG and a really good prospect) and a first round which has already been sent to the heat in last year trade

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    haha that's pretty hilarious when sports superstars say "I have 2 kids to feed" thus I require massive amounts of money. Those two kids must be hideous bottomless sacs of flesh that consume more than Sudan's yearly output of grain daily.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Hellgate's Avatar
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    LOL. That's good stuff

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    I don't see why it's such a far cry for a superstar player to want to resign with T.O.
    O.k lets for get about the Wade trade, because obviously I'm way off.
    What is it about Toronto that's so terrible? Is it because it's cold in the winter time? It's cold in a lot of places N.Y for instance, or Boston, players don't seem to mind it there.
    Is it because it's a small city, small market? No because forbes magazine just ranked Toronto as the 14 or 15 most valuable fanchise in the league and Cleveland No.5. If not for Lebron James where would they be.
    Is it because we're Canadian? is every single player in the NBA a bunch shallow predjudice pricks? No, some probably are but not all. And the less of an ego driven star you are the better your image is, isn't it.
    Maybe it's because Toronto can't pay stars enough money? No that's not it either because all the contracts are the same.
    Another reason could be that Toronto has bad managment who are not player friendly. Except we treat or players like gods and give them what ever they want and Toronto's managment is supposed to be some of the best and highest paid in the league.
    Yet another reason could be that we are just not popular enough and players want to be in the lime light. well that last one is half true but where did Vince Carter make his name and why is Bosh so popular.
    There's a buzz around the Raps esspecially right now because Bosh hasn't resigned and there's all kinds of rumours floating around about where he's going to be next season and that there's no chance he's going to sign here long term.
    Here's a thought what if he does.
    Everyone's so caught up in what guy's like that cock sucker Bill Simmons and other ESPN hacks are spewing out on a daily baisis. Forgetting that Toronto is where Bosh is now and where he can sign for the most money with a pretty decent team to back it up.
    Last edited by Hellgate; Wed Jan 20th, 2010 at 02:26 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Gurk's Avatar
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    lol that trade would definatly make the Heat better :eye roll:
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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Quote Hellgate wrote: View Post
    As crazy as it sounds. Miami has the same dilemma with Wade as the Raps do with Bosh. After this season they could loose Wade if they can't sign the right players. It's all a big risk.
    I'll play along with you if you come up with a reliable article even hinting at that.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Hellgate's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    I'll play along with you if you come up with a reliable article even hinting at that.
    You here it over and over, all the time, in all sports, athletes want to be in the best situation to win first and formost.
    Given the state of the economy, the salary cap will most likely be lowered next season making it even more difficult to sign FA's ,especailly any team who want's to sign a max player.
    The way the landscape is looking it's going to be in the best interest of the big time FA's to resign with their respective clubs.

    Seemingly, the only way Miami can grant Wade's expressed wish to play with another elite player, is for them to pull off a sign and trade. The only valuble trade piece Miami has is Beasly who is still a couple years away from being a star. The rest are expiring contracts. The way Pat Riley talks about Beasly, it sounds like he thinks he's as valuable as Wade and essential to the teams future success.
    Maimi could choose to trade all those expiring contracts and stack there team with a bunch of decent players but not the type of star that Wade and the rest their franchise is hoping for. There's only a few teams who are over the cap and accually care that they are, New Orleans, Indiana, Golden State, and may be one or two others.
    None of those teams want to give up anyone of importance to get under the cap and if they do give up someone good, they want fair value in return. Expiring contracts plus prospects or draft picks and not the James Jones' of the world.

    Assuming that all the big FA's this summer will either be traded before the dead line or resign with the clubs they're with, all of whom are on good teams with the potential of becoming better. There simply won't be a big star player for the Heat and the Knicks to bid for. They'll have to settle for the T-Macs and TJ Fords.
    Then it's also about signing players who can play together and win. Detroit broke the bank last summer and are suffering from it. Joe Dumars signed those players based on all the facts I just talked about, none of them can play together.

    The next 20 games are going to determine the Heats season this year. Up until now they've had one of the easier schedules. During the next 20 games 14 are on the road and six back-to-backs. All the other teams from 5th place on are playing alot better and their schedules are now alot easier. The Heat might not make the playoffs this year. Whether or not that will matter to them, I don't know.
    They can live and most likely die with Dwayne Wade or try and get a equal return for him now before he does demand a trade.
    In regaurds to Bosh, Lebron, Stoudemire and other big FA's even if they gaurantee their teams they're going to re-up. It won't be announced until the last day of free agency. Just look at all the attention there generating by staying quiet.
    Last edited by Hellgate; Wed Jan 20th, 2010 at 02:23 PM.

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    There have been several articles in the Miami Herald and Sun-Sentinel Times on the possibility of Wade leaving this summer. There have also been several articles in the Chicago press also. I remember being very surprised at some poll results too, on where Wade will land this summer, by Heat fans because of how negative they were about Wade staying (which I think is very likely).

    Not as much on the national level, ESPN and stuff like that, and not as much in other cities ... but there's definitely a lot of talk in Miami about this.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The main difference, though, is that the Miami Heat are actually able to improve their roster this summer. They have a massive amount of cap space and are a great free agent destination. They'll be able to convince Wade to stay easily enough.

    In contrast, the Raptors have hardly any flexibility to improve their roster this summer.

    The fear in Miami is half-brained and irrational ... while the fear in Toronto is legitimate and should be growing given Colangelo's interest/willingness to do a sign and trade which negates their only significant advantage (bird rights, extra money).
    Last edited by Dave; Wed Jan 20th, 2010 at 02:44 PM.

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    Quote Hellgate wrote: View Post
    The only valuable trade piece Miami has is Beasley who is still a couple years away from being a star. The rest are expiring contracts. The way Pat Riley talks about Beasley, it sounds like he thinks he's as valuable as Wade and essential to the teams future success.
    Pat Riley will trade Michael Beasley in a heart beat if it lands him a top talent like a Chris Bosh.

    He's just hesitant to do so now, in the middle of the season, because he feels he has the opportunity to sign that top talent without giving up Beasley. Why give up a young talent in a trade when you may be able to pry away the player for free during the summer? Pat Riley said all of this either towards the end of last season or during the summer.

    Although, despite his protests to that end, I fully believe he'd part with Beasley right now to land Chris Bosh. That would go a long way to proving to Dwyane Wade that his future lies in Miami, to improving their current team and being able to make a run in the playoffs, and gives them a much better shot at retaining Bosh in FA and completing their other FA goals.

    Pat Riley has always been the type of GM that believes in acquiring the best talent possible and building from there. He won't hesitate to give up Beasley this summer in a sign and trade. He won't let Beasley stand in the way from him building a dynamic duo (LeBron, Bosh) that instantly makes the Heat a contender. Just like he didn't hesitate to give up Lamar Odom and Caron Butler for Shaq. Or to give up Jamal Mashburn for Eddie Jones. Or Glen Rice for Alonzo Mourning.

    Pat Riley's eye is always on the title and based around the belief that your best players decide how good a chance you have at that.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Hellgate's Avatar
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    Quote Dave wrote: View Post
    Pat Riley will trade Michael Beasley in a heart beat if it lands him a top talent like a Chris Bosh.

    He's just hesitant to do so now, in the middle of the season, because he feels he has the opportunity to sign that top talent without giving up Beasley. Why give up a young talent in a trade when you may be able to pry away the player for free during the summer? Pat Riley said all of this either towards the end of last season or during the summer.

    Although, despite his protests to that end, I fully believe he'd part with Beasley right now to land Chris Bosh. That would go a long way to proving to Dwyane Wade that his future lies in Miami, to improving their current team and being able to make a run in the playoffs, and gives them a much better shot at retaining Bosh in FA and completing their other FA goals.

    Pat Riley has always been the type of GM that believes in acquiring the best talent possible and building from there. He won't hesitate to give up Beasley this summer in a sign and trade. He won't let Beasley stand in the way from him building a dynamic duo (LeBron, Bosh) that instantly makes the Heat a contender. Just like he didn't hesitate to give up Lamar Odom and Caron Butler for Shaq. Or to give up Jamal Mashburn for Eddie Jones. Or Glen Rice for Alonzo Mourning.

    Pat Riley's eye is always on the title and based around the belief that your best players decide how good a chance you have at that.
    Pat Riley's eye has painted himself and his team into a corner.
    By trading away all the talent the team had, to win that one title, has guaranteed that the team will be just average, and has been average and at time's (during Wade's injury) horrible.
    Making that trade for Shaq was easy. You don't need to be a brain surgeon to figure that one out.
    Sure it guaranteed them a title but it also assured them they wouldn't get back there.
    Half the teams in the league had the pieces to move for Shaq, but where smart enough to resist and plan for the future.
    Pheonix also also had aspirations of Shaq becoming their ticket to a championship. We all know how good that turned out. However, The Suns, after giving up Marion still had a bunch of talent to bounce back if things didn't work.
    Now the only hope for the Heat of becoming a contender again is through free agency.
    Well if that happends it'll will be the first in history, a team built a contender strickly out of FA's.
    Unless they are vitualy given a high caliber player like the Lakers got with Gasol the future of the heat looks pretty grim.
    Last edited by Hellgate; Wed Jan 20th, 2010 at 06:03 PM.

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