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Thread: am I being realistic?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Starter
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    Default am I being realistic?

    trade deadline: Demar Derozan straight up for Jan Vesely

    why? Derozan has shown how ineffective he is, when playing under casey's system.

    Vesely is a freak athlete, who is also very smart, and the wizards are wrong to ask him to bulk up and use him in the PF position when he is clearly an SF with great rebounding skills. One off-season devoted to learning how to shoot and this guy is andrei kirilenko.

    So Next Year:

    C:Valanciunas, Off season Signing/trade
    PF:Bargnani,Johnson/Davis (maybe trade one of the two, leaning towards davis, he seems like he's going to bolt anyways)
    SF:Vesely,Kleiza,J. Johnson
    SG:Lamb/beal (draft),Off season signing/trade
    PG:Calderon,off season signing/trade

    Is it unrealistic to think this team can go all the way? Bargnani is the star, Valanciunas is the prototypical centre, Vesely is the smart athletic team player that can also slash to the hoop, lamb/beal is the shooter that can make open shots, and Calderon the excellent passer. Not to mention the excellent depth with kleiza,A. Johnson, James Johnson coming of the bench.

    only problem I see is calderon getting to old too fast, luckily his game isn't built on speed/athleticism.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    I am not sure that Vesley has the playmaking abilities that would fit best at the 3 for the Raptors. Who in your starting 5 can create their own shot?

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    Can this thread be moved in the Raptors Trade Proposal Forum?

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    I am not sure that Vesley has the playmaking abilities that would fit best at the 3 for the Raptors. Who in your starting 5 can create their own shot?
    Bargnani and Lamb.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    I actually think it will become clear that Vesely is too big for the NBA SF spot ... dude is huge.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    Bargnani and Lamb.
    I don't think you can say Andrea can create his own shot, he utilizes a great one dribble pull-up off a shot fake, he also drives baseline on occasion, but he does not show many counter moves or advanced ball handling needed under extreme pressure. Lamb, can't say I am sold on him as a shot creator at the NBA level. Nice shooter, good on the break, decent off the dribble, but breaking guys down at the NBA level, not too sure.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    No, you are not. Frankly, I don't see any circumstances where this team is competitive next year. This roster is a mess and there are no quick fixes. There are 4 massive, gaping holes in the starting line-up right now. You'll be able to fill one with JV and another with the 2012 pick. That's still going to leave big holes at, likely, the PG spot and one swing position. You might be able to fix one via free agency and duct tape the other for a year. That still leaves you with two rookies in the starting 5 and we all know that young teams don't win much in the NBA. Also, not sure Bargs as the #1 guy is good enough. They need a franchise changer on the perimeter. Badly. Hopefully, that is one of Beal, Lamb, Barnes, Gilchrist. Then, you can try and fill the last hole in 2013.

    Realistically, I think we all should be looking at this team being in the playoffs in the 2013/2014 seasons and looking like an ECF team for 15-16 and beyond. Those are my expectations. I am getting tired of the losing seasons and endless excuses made for this organization.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    I think you are grossly undervaluing DeMar and/or grossly overvaluing Vesely.

    Vesely, while just a rookie, has hardly impressed on a very poor Washington roster even when given significant minutes in the game.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo...165/jan-vesely

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    No, you are not. Frankly, I don't see any circumstances where this team is competitive next year. This roster is a mess and there are no quick fixes. There are 4 massive, gaping holes in the starting line-up right now. You'll be able to fill one with JV and another with the 2012 pick. That's still going to leave big holes at, likely, the PG spot and one swing position. You might be able to fix one via free agency and duct tape the other for a year. That still leaves you with two rookies in the starting 5 and we all know that young teams don't win much in the NBA. Also, not sure Bargs as the #1 guy is good enough. They need a franchise changer on the perimeter. Badly. Hopefully, that is one of Beal, Lamb, Barnes, Gilchrist. Then, you can try and fill the last hole in 2013.

    Realistically, I think we all should be looking at this team being in the playoffs in the 2013/2014 seasons and looking like an ECF team for 15-16 and beyond. Those are my expectations. I am getting tired of the losing seasons and endless excuses made for this organization.
    Considering they are 3 games out of the playoffs and 6-7 with Bargnani in the lineup and 2-11 without him, I'm not sure that statement is fair. Also, we have no idea what is going to happen this off season. The Celtics were looking pretty bleak in the 2006-2007 season before they cashed in all their players. Not saying Toronto is going to get the equivalent of Garnett or Allen but then again, we don't know. I look forward to seeing the roster come training camp.

    However, I do see your point. Overall things are pretty bleak once you get past Bargnani and a couple of role players. There is no real 2nd or 3rd option or depth.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    trade deadline: Demar Derozan straight up for Jan Vesely

    why? Derozan has shown how ineffective he is, when playing under casey's system.

    Vesely is a freak athlete, who is also very smart, and the wizards are wrong to ask him to bulk up and use him in the PF position when he is clearly an SF with great rebounding skills. One off-season devoted to learning how to shoot and this guy is andrei kirilenko.

    So Next Year:

    C:Valanciunas, Off season Signing/trade
    PF:Bargnani,Johnson/Davis (maybe trade one of the two, leaning towards davis, he seems like he's going to bolt anyways)
    SF:Vesely,Kleiza,J. Johnson
    SG:Lamb/beal (draft),Off season signing/trade
    PG:Calderon,off season signing/trade

    Is it unrealistic to think this team can go all the way? Bargnani is the star, Valanciunas is the prototypical centre, Vesely is the smart athletic team player that can also slash to the hoop, lamb/beal is the shooter that can make open shots, and Calderon the excellent passer. Not to mention the excellent depth with kleiza,A. Johnson, James Johnson coming of the bench.

    only problem I see is calderon getting to old too fast, luckily his game isn't built on speed/athleticism.
    3 of the starting 5 are rookies that we don't know have a clue about how they will translate into the NBA, so I'd say it's unrealistic to think that team can go all the way.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I'm quite open to trading DeRozan, but no way would I trade him for Vesely. I wasn't high on Vesely during the draft and haven't been impressed with what I've seen in limited minutes against the Raps. I have to assume that DeRozan still holds more value around the league than Vesely.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Vesely is solomon alabi compared to demar

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Going through a bunch of these trades in this section of the forum, I must say the optimism is amazing.

    Are you being realistic in regards to the trade? if you were the gm, yup. Washington would take that deal in a second (they might be up for demar and nick young together), even though it is horrible and it would make the Toronto team dramatically worse, and hurt our future plans.

    Are you being realistic in regards to having a lineup of Calderon, rookie, Jan, rookie JV, and Bargnani going all the way? it is so crazy how unrealistic it is that i am going to bite my tongue, and just leave it at that.

    Really sucks that toronto fans are against Derozan so quickly...

    he is not going to be a chris bosh or vc franchise player, but he is a part of our future, and trading him to washington to attempt to solve a sf problem, only to restrict trade baits of bayless and barbosa (we have more pressure to keep both of them now), and to mess around with this teams long term plans like that, all for a rookie who has underachieved on a horrible deal. derozan is not that bad lol.

    ADD:

    Demar has scored more in his last three games then Vesely has all year . Vesely is averaging more fouls then points, and more turnovers then assists, blocks, and steals. While it is his first season, he has played very poorly. Not to degrade his potential, but I do not see him being a starter in this league.

    Also, your "dream" scenario has all it's depth based off of FA signings in the offseason. That is terribly risky, and could turn out very badly.
    Last edited by Red and White; Wed Feb 8th, 2012 at 09:02 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    i expect vesely to be a bust. i will be surprised if he turns into a real player. if trading demar straight up for someone i think you go for turner or mayo. id prefer turner.

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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i expect vesely to be a bust. i will be surprised if he turns into a real player. if trading demar straight up for someone i think you go for turner or mayo. id prefer turner.
    Ditto, I was worried BC would select him in last years' draft.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    we got lucky with another intriguing euro still on the board

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    the dunking ninja my ass. My layup is more explosive then his dunk. Get that garbage outta here

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