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Thread: Lakers/Hawks/Raptors

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Lakers/Hawks/Raptors

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

    Lakers: Hinrich
    Hawks: Barbosa
    Raptors: from LA, one of Morris or a draft pick (Mavs or Lakers); and from Atlanta, PHX 2012 2nd round pick.


    Raptors add about $7M in cap space, combined with $6M they currently have, sign Wilson Chandler to a contract that is reasonable and likely won't get matched by Denver considering they have $18M tied up in Afflalo and Gallinari per season.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    I like this idea, fairly reasonable. I would be happy with a first and second rounder for Barbosa, it is better than if he just leaves after the season.

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    I would say Morris and their first rounder.
    I know they are high on Morris, but getting Hinrich for a first rounder seems very cheap.
    Then we get another young and cheap player

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I like that deal. Atlanta is $1.4M in the luxury tax before the trade. That shaves $500K which they may like as an added benefit. Lakers get their PG (one that they were rumoured to be interested in in 2011). Atlanta gets a good 6th man to replace Crawford, and we get another pick.

    I'm not sure Atlanta would throw in a draft pick (even a 2nd rounder) since the move is lateral for them, but I'm okay without it.

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    Like the idea especially if Morris and a pick, but I would bet Lakers would try to pawn off Fisher or Blake instead.

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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Like the idea especially if Morris and a pick, but I would bet Lakers would try to pawn off Fisher or Blake instead.
    If they did we would say no.
    Even in this trade their making away like bandits, Hinirch for Morris straight up?

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    Quote Hello wrote: View Post
    If they did we would say no.
    Even in this trade their making away like bandits, Hinirch for Morris straight up?

    The idea behind this trade is to get some more assets to possibly make a run on a top level talent and clear cap space THIS SEASON to get Wilson Chandler upon return from China.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Good trade, mutually beneficial.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The idea behind this trade is to get some more assets to possibly make a run on a top level talent and clear cap space THIS SEASON to get Wilson Chandler upon return from China.
    I do realize that. But at the same time, I feel like we could still get another draft pick from LA (either to make another deal with, or to get another young player) which would not cost us more cap space.

    I do like the trade from our perspective, getting morris and more cap space to sign Chandler
    but from a lakers perspective they are getting a veteran Pg/Sg who is a great shooter and a strong defender for an unproven (so far) Morris. I just feel like Colangelo could get another draft pick from LA.

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    Quote Hello wrote: View Post
    I do realize that. But at the same time, I feel like we could still get another draft pick from LA (either to make another deal with, or to get another young player) which would not cost us more cap space.

    I do like the trade from our perspective, getting morris and more cap space to sign Chandler
    but from a lakers perspective they are getting a veteran Pg/Sg who is a great shooter and a strong defender for an unproven (so far) Morris. I just feel like Colangelo could get another draft pick from LA.
    Possibly. The problem LA might have is their roster is, overall, old as currently constructed. Trading a young point guard and multiple draft picks will not help with the transition in years to come. Also, picking up $7-$8M for the Lakers is actually $14-16M with the cap space.

    I'd really like to know what players value around the league is. I think you might be valuing Barbosa too much but I can also see, understand, and appreciate the idea his value is more as well.

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    I probably am over valuing Barbosa (doesnt everyone with our own players? :P), but what I think it really comes down to is:

    1) How long do the lakers expect to keep competing?

    I know they have always been the most dangerous team in the league, but with Kobe and Gasol getting older their chances are running out. Are they willing to sacrifice some young players to get more veteran and play off tested players, or do they start stocking up on young players now for when their stars stop winning?

    2) How much are they willing to spend?

    I know some people thought the odom trade was about saving money, and by taking on barbosa they are taking on a lot of salary.

    I think only the Lakers orginization can answer those questions, so for us, everything is a mystery.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    One thing to consider as well about the LA picks as that they could be saving them for Howard. Orlando's best deal could be Bynum and the two draft picks. That might beat anything NJ, LAC, Dallas (and Boston now) could give them. I don't think Buss/Kupchack would give up one of those picks this season for a rental when they can land the best center in the game next season for those same picks. But I could be wrong.

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    One thing to consider as well about the LA picks as that they could be saving them for Howard. Orlando's best deal could be Bynum and the two draft picks. That might beat anything NJ, LAC, Dallas (and Boston now) could give them. I don't think Buss/Kupchack would give up one of those picks this season for a rental when they can land the best center in the game next season for those same picks. But I could be wrong.
    But Howard could just as easily pull a Bosh and Lebron and simply walk away from Orlando to LA.
    I still think that LA is his preferred (and best suited) destination.
    If they can get him to sign, they may want to trade for example Morris, a pick and Walton? for Barbosa's expiring contract

    If they trade their pick (or both)/ and or morris with walton, im sure someone will give them an expiring contract(hopefully us).

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    Quote Hello wrote: View Post
    I probably am over valuing Barbosa (doesnt everyone with our own players? :P), but what I think it really comes down to is:

    1) How long do the lakers expect to keep competing?

    I know they have always been the most dangerous team in the league, but with Kobe and Gasol getting older their chances are running out. Are they willing to sacrifice some young players to get more veteran and play off tested players, or do they start stocking up on young players now for when their stars stop winning?

    2) How much are they willing to spend?

    I know some people thought the odom trade was about saving money, and by taking on barbosa they are taking on a lot of salary.

    I think only the Lakers orginization can answer those questions, so for us, everything is a mystery.
    I keep seeing this reference to the Lakers looking to save money, but nothing of that fits with what they have done or are reportedly trying to do (get CPaul, DHoward, DWilliams etc.). It came out during the Odom crap but he told them he would not play for them anymore and they made a quick deal. I have yet to see something from the Lakers themselves say they are trying to cut payroll, just being perpetuated by bloggers and media. Really, if they said publicly they would cut payroll, Kobe would have a sh&tfit.

    It is interesting to see what might happen with Gasol though, considering how he has been back hand slapping the coaching lately, but DHoward has said he would like to play with him. Quite the conundrum.

    Quote Hello wrote: View Post
    But Howard could just as easily pull a Bosh and Lebron and simply walk away from Orlando to LA.
    I still think that LA is his preferred (and best suited) destination.
    If they can get him to sign, they may want to trade for example Morris, a pick and Walton? for Barbosa's expiring contract

    If they trade their pick (or both)/ and or morris with walton, im sure someone will give them an expiring contract(hopefully us).
    Still would have to get Orlando to play ball in a S&T since there is less than zero cap space in LA to sign big deals...unless of course Howard wants to sign for the mini-mid-level exception. It would certainly distinguish him from Shaq if he truly worries about that one!

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about trade scenarios regarding Calderon and Barbosa a lot.... I mean a lot. Like when my wife asks, "What are you thinking about?" as I drift off in to space and I say, "Uh, nothing?" I'm thinking about trading Calderon and Barbosa.


    I think this might be my definitive final answer to trading them both with an eye to the future with cap space, financial flexibility, and acquiring assets.

    Two trades would be required to make it work and would have to happen after March 1st with the Lakers clearly out of the running for Dwight Howard:

    Trade 1: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=77jeyw4

    ATL: Barbosa, Gray
    TOR: Morris, 2012 1st round pick from the Hawks or 2 2012 2nd round picks from the Hawks (ATL & PHX)
    LAL: Kirk Hinrich

    Trade 2: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=3o2ugv4

    LAL: Calderon
    TOR: Hinrich, 2012 1st round pick from LAL (one of DAL or LAL)

    The second trade on the trade machine link has Atlanta but that is to only show that the trade does satisfy the number requirements of the CBA. Essentially, the Lakers immediately send Hinrich to Toronto for Calderon. Remember individual players can be traded on their own an infinite number of times which is why Q. Richardson was traded 5 or 6 times in the summer of 2010.


    Both trades combined (i.e. looking at the final result) would look like this:

    ATL: Barbosa, Gray
    LAL: Calderon
    TOR: Morris, Hinrich, 1st round pick or 2 2nd round picks from Hawks in 2012, 1st round pick from Lakers in 2012


    Why would teams do this?

    Atlanta gets a Jamal Crawford replacement. They are thin on C's (Horford injury and Collins leaves them with just Pachulia) and Gray has shown he can play productive minutes. Both are expiring contracts so it leaves the Hawks with flexibility moving forward.

    The Lakers get a solution to their biggest problem: no PG. It only helps that his presence might help Pau Gasol's play due to the history.

    Toronto gets financial flexibility, a young prospect at PG with great size and known as a 'pass first' PG. Here is what DraftExpress.com had to say about him last year leading in to the draft:

    When talking about the most improved players in the country this season, Michigan's Darius Morris has to be in the conversation. The sophomore point guard has increased his numbers across the board and made the leap from an unproductive freshman to one of the top guards in the Big Ten.

    From a physical standpoint, Morris has great size and length for the point guard position at 6'4” with a very impressive frame. Always looking to make things happen with the ball in his hands, Morris is capable of overpowering defenders with his solid first step and extremely aggressive mentality, similar to the way Tyreke Evans did at Memphis a few years back. While he may not possess jet-quickness by NBA standards, his size and strength are major assets on both ends of the floor and give him a huge physical advantage at the point guard position.

    Running the point for a young Michigan team, Morris has really stood out with his ability to utilize his size, ball-handling ability, and craftiness to get into the paint and make plays. His ability to finish in the lane and in the midrange area is highlighted by the fact that he's shooting an excellent 56% on 2-pointers so far this season, where he's shown that he's capable of finishing in a variety ways. He's also doing a much better job drawing contact at the rim this season, as he's getting to the line at a much rate than he did as a freshman.

    The area where Morris has really stood out and made strides this season has been as a distributor. Aided by the fact that he's asked to handle the ball and create shots for himself and his teammates dozens of times per game, he's shown to have a solid feel for making drive and dish plays, even if there's still plenty of room for improvement. He's clearly embraced his role as the Wolverine's primary ball-handler and playmaker, nearly doubling his assist rate from last season.

    Morris is dishing out 8.8 assists per 40 minutes pace adjusted this season, which leads all players in our database. For a player who last season looked like he may not even be a point guard, that is a pretty incredible stat. With that said, we must consider the situation he's in right now, as he is asked to handle the ball virtually every second his team is on offense. This results in some very ugly possessions from time to time, where Morris will pound the ball incessantly or force the issue badly, leading to a huge amount of turnovers and low-percentage shots.

    While his decision making can be very shaky at times, due to attempting to throw difficult passes or forcing up contested shots, he's adapting pretty well to his role this season, particularly as the year has moved on. Coach John Beilein has had no choice but to show the utmost confidence in Morris and his ability to run the team, altering his half-court philosophy dramatically from a stagnant motion offense to one centered around pick and rolls and isolation plays. This appears to have improved his team's offense—Michigan was just narrowly defeated by two of the top teams in the NCAA in Michigan State and Kansas this past week—and has allowed Morris to emerge as an interesting draft prospect in turn.

    Morris can become even a much more dangerous player if he can continue to improve as a perimeter shooter. His 3-point shooting is up slightly to 27.9% this season, from a miserable 18% as a freshman, and his free throw shooting has risen from 63% to 77%. Clearly he put in some work shooting the ball over the summer. With that said, he still has plenty of room for improvement. He isn't particularly effective as a shooter with his feet set, and while he's more comfortable shooting off the dribble, he still takes some bad shots and doesn't have great range. If he can become a reliable shooter from 3-point range, it should really open up his slashing game and make him an even tougher matchup for opposing point guards.

    Defensively, Morris has the potential to be a solid defender at the NBA level. He has ideal size and length for a point guard, he moves well laterally, and he plays with good energy. He'll need to improve on defending the ball-handler on pick-and-rolls and work harder at fighting through screens, but he can get better with that in time.

    Another plus for him defensively is that he's big enough to be able to cover most shooting guards, which would enable him to be able to play in different backcourt combinations and give his coach flexibility on the defensively depending on matchups.

    Overall, it's still a bit premature to jump to too many conclusions regarding Morris's NBA prospects, but through sixteen games of this season, he's certainly managed to turn some heads. His dramatic improvement from his freshman to sophomore season is very encouraging, and he is definitely a player to keep an eye on as he goes through Big Ten play.

    While Morris may not be able to operate offensively in the NBA in quite the same manner as he does at Michigan currently, his size and knack for getting into the lane and making plays is definitely intriguing. As he continues to add polish and improve as a perimeter shooter and decision maker, he'll likely be a player we talk much more about in the future.

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1lWbA8lhD
    http://www.draftexpress.com
    The increased cap space would allow the Raptors to entertain the idea of signing Wilson Chandler. Also, the addition of multiple draft picks come draft night (2 or 3 first round picks and 1 or 3 second round picks) and a roster with a starting SG/SF in Wilson Chandler would allow the Raptors to entertain the idea of including other assets (WC, DeMar, ED, Amir, JJ, own draft pick) in a package to acquire a true difference maker. Then, come the off season, I would be looking to re-sign both Barbosa and Gray as they are both UFA's this summer.



    Personally, I really like the above. It is never easy to let go of players who have been on your team for a long time but, at the end of the day, there has not been a lot of success with those pieces during their time in Toronto.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sun Feb 5th, 2012 at 12:47 PM.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I've been thinking about trade scenarios regarding Calderon and Barbosa a lot.... I mean a lot. Like when my wife asks, "What are you thinking about?" as I drift off in to space and I say, "Uh, nothing?" I'm thinking about trading Calderon and Barbosa.


    I think this might be my definitive final answer to trading them both with an eye to the future with cap space, financial flexibility, and acquiring assets.

    Two trades would be required to make it work and would have to happen after March 1st with the Lakers clearly out of the running for Dwight Howard:

    Trade 1: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=77jeyw4

    ATL: Barbosa, Gray
    TOR: Morris, 2012 1st round pick from the Hawks or 2 2012 2nd round picks from the Hawks (ATL & PHX)
    LAL: Kirk Hinrich

    Trade 2: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=3o2ugv4

    LAL: Calderon
    TOR: Hinrich, 2012 1st round pick from LAL (one of DAL or LAL)

    The second trade on the trade machine link has Atlanta but that is to only show that the trade does satisfy the number requirements of the CBA. Essentially, the Lakers immediately send Hinrich to Toronto for Calderon. Remember individual players can be traded on their own an infinite number of times which is why Q. Richardson was traded 5 or 6 times in the summer of 2010.


    Both trades combined (i.e. looking at the final result) would look like this:

    ATL: Barbosa, Gray
    LAL: Calderon
    TOR: Morris, Hinrich, 1st round pick or 2 2nd round picks from Hawks in 2012, 1st round pick from Lakers in 2012


    Why would teams do this?

    Atlanta gets a Jamal Crawford replacement. They are thin on C's (Horford injury and Collins leaves them with just Pachulia) and Gray has shown he can play productive minutes. Both are expiring contracts so it leaves the Hawks with flexibility moving forward.

    The Lakers get a solution to their biggest problem: no PG. It only helps that his presence might help Pau Gasol's play due to the history.

    Toronto gets financial flexibility, a young prospect at PG with great size and known as a 'pass first' PG. Here is what DraftExpress.com had to say about him last year leading in to the draft:



    The increased cap space would allow the Raptors to entertain the idea of signing Wilson Chandler. Also, the addition of multiple draft picks come draft night (2 or 3 first round picks and 1 or 3 second round picks) and a roster with a starting SG/SF in Wilson Chandler would allow the Raptors to entertain the idea of including other assets (WC, DeMar, ED, Amir, JJ, own draft pick) in a package to acquire a true difference maker. Then, come the off season, I would be looking to re-sign both Barbosa and Gray as they are both UFA's this summer.



    Personally, I really like the above. It is never easy to let go of players who have been on your team for a long time but, at the end of the day, there has not been a lot of success with those pieces during their time in Toronto.
    I like this and should be solving issues for all three teams.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Hawks need help

    One week ago, the Hawks won a game by 23 points in Toronto. They went 4-1 on a road trip — their most successful trip in 43 years — and held one of the best records in the NBA at 16-6.

    Then the team came home, and it was like watching Sybil change personalities.

    The Hawks lost to the 9-14 Phoenix Suns, 99-90, on Monday night at Philips Arena. That makes three straight home losses to Memphis, Philadelphia and Phoenix. They’ve trailed by 20-plus points in all three games.

    The one thread in the three losses has been a mixed effort.

    There are several reasons why this may have happened. The most obvious: Being undersized without two centers, Al Horford (potentially out for the season) and Jason Collins (sidelined for two weeks), has led to physical fatigue, which has led to mental fatigue.

    Players are not nearly as aggressive as they were earlier in the season. They’re not sharing the ball as much. They’ve probably has lost some confidence.

    “We didn’t respnd well to their runs,” coach Larry Drew said after the Phoenix game. “I just don’t see how we can respond as if the game’s over.”

    Here’s what has become obvious: This team needs some help.

    General manager Rick Sund’s ability to make a trade is hamstrung by payroll issues. Any significant acquisition would put the Hawks into a tax situation, and there’s no indication that ownership is willing to pay that premium. But Sund can’t afford to sit back and do nothing, but to assume these problems are just going away is a dangerous game.

    The Hawks were just starting to get some deserved attention. But after three straight flat performances at home, they’re threatening to slip off the landscape again.


    On that note: pitchers and catchers report in two weeks.

    I’ll have more on this tomorrow after speaking to Drew, Sund and some players. But I wanted to get your early thoughts on this team.

    The floor is yours.
    http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-bl...eed-some-help/

    Someone needs to send my trade above to Sund.

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Via @HawksPRGuy, Twitter.com:

    The #Hawks have signed C Erick Dampier to a 10-day contract. #NBA


    I don't think a 36 year old Dampier is going to cut it for Atlanta. I hope they see my trade above.

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